Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

Buckley's chance

Never heard this one before. Is this an Aussie expression ? Can I tell this to a woman in Australia, you have a "Buckley's chance" of getting me into bed with you, if I don't like her, and if I do like her, can I use the same .

It's good to get away from politics now and then and have a little fun.

It must be an Aussie expression,Kikapu.But I don't know its origins.
As you've probably guess it means "a very slim chance".
You can also say "Buckley's and none" meaning two chances amounting to next to no chance.
It is perfectly acceptable to use it in mixed company.But if you like her you'd better say "You have better chance than Buckley's"

[Kikapu]

Birkibrisli,

Thanks for the tips. With my luck, I'll be getting a lot of " Buckley's and none" said to me.!!

[Piratis]

We have no problem with the 24% of people that voted "yes". The 99.9% of them did so because they were convinced that "yes" was the right choice, either because they found the Annan plan acceptable or because they believed the threats about what would happen if we dared to say "no". Their opinion is 100% respected. However now that the referendum is over everybody has to accept the decision of the people and stop trying to find ways to force on us what we have rejected in the most clear and direct way. Unfortunately some people show no such respect to the democratic principles.

The essence of political equality of the two communities is present in the Constitution that arose from the London-Zurich agreements.

I think it is time that Cypriots wrote their own constitution in a democratic way (as is our right). This constitution should be in line with the 100% of the human rights and democratic principles. Everybody should be treated equally without racist discriminations and minorities should be fully protected as is done in all other EU countries (and even more than that - e.g. Turkish as an official language etc).

Then if Turkey doesn't like the constitution we created, we can create a new constitution based on the Turkish model. Then everybody should be happy.

[BirKibrisli]

Then if Turkey doesn't like the constitution we created, we can create a new constitution based on the Turkish model. Then everybody should be happy.

Good try,dear Piratis...And you didn't even crack a smile.
I know what Erdogan will say to you: "You have two chances;Buckley's and none".

[sadik]

It's one thing to say that you are all evil and inferior, it's another thing to say that we have done some bad things.

Well, apparently those particular people that I mentioned and which are part of a tiny portion of the G/C society, do not simply say that we have done some bad things but that we have done all the bad things and therefore we have to accept the terms of the other side or the foreigners (a-plan) without questioning, simply because we brought everything on our selves and we have to accept all the consequences. In other words, they initiate a self victimising campaign of their own side, in order to cultivate the ground and the climate among the G/C society that will accommodate and facilitate our surrender, as the others (Turkey and the Anglo-Americans) prefer and promote it.

In my view, one being able to criticize oneself is not extremism, it's a virtue.

They are not the only ones being able to criticize oneself.

Besides, have never heard any GC on this forum ever saying that the GCs are the sole perpetrators of all this mess.

Well, if you follow closely the letter and spirit of nearly all of Bananiot’s posts (except perhaps those in the joke sections of the forums,) you will realised that this is precisely the only thing he is doing.

As a Turkish Cypriot, I find it very frusterating that the people who show the most willingness to live together with the TCs are treated like this in the GC society.

They are not the only ones who show the most willingness to live together with the T/Cs, and in fact they are a tiny minority among all those that show such willingness, and they are not treated like this because of this reason, namely because they show the most willingness to live together with the T/Cs.

They are treated like this because they pursue a compromise through a total and unquestionable surrender to the terms of the other side and those of the foreigners. They promote the Anglo-American and Turkish propaganda in Cyprus, which holds that the only possible way to solve the problem is by accepting the Annan plan, as the foreigners have presented it to us, otherwise we have no other chance to solve the problem, and they also use the fear of partition as part of a scaremongering tactic. This the reason they are treated in this way, because they behave as agents of foreign interests among the G/C society, either consciously or not, and they show absolutely no respect for the choices and preferences of the vast majority of the people.

Sorry Kifeas, but this sound too much like what the Denktas crowd has been accusing progressive Turkish Cypriots of. I have no sympathy for these treason arguements.

[Kifeas]

Democracy is not just about numbers,I hope we all agree on that.
Democracy is specifically about making sure that the minorities in a country get fair representation,get freedom of speech and political action,and feel welcomed and valued members of society. A democracy in which the majority try to push their own agendas and opinions on the minorities,nomatter what those minorities feel,cannot be a true democracy.

We all agree on that I believe, and no one has any such ambition towards the T/C community. Do you believe that anyone from the part of the G/C community has any such a policy in their mind, or wish to find a solution which will deprive the members of the T/C community from any of the above?

Here is the crucial issue as far as I can gather from reading these forums.the TCs do not believe they can trust the GCs to protect their interests or freedoms or even their basic human right of life.Given this we have Buckley's chance to get them to agree on reunification without rock solid guarantees that they will be treated fairly,respectfully and democratically in a united Cyprus.

Ok! We are ready to provide any given guarantee that this will not happen, without at the same time sacrificing fundamental and basic human rights and other critical historical and political interests of the G/C community. Is it unfair to take this approach?

Being the majority it is upto the GC community to try to make the TCs feel more comfortable with the idea of reunification.From where I sit I see NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER ON BEHALF OF THE GCS IN THIS DIRECTION.

What would you suggest the G/C side should do in order to make the T/Cs feel more comfortable with the idea of reunification? I hope you do not mean that we should hide from them the truth as to what we can possible accept and what we cannot possibly accept in relation to the form and shape that a solution should take, versus what the T/C side demands from us. I would like to hear some more specific things that we could do in this direction.

TCs need their GC compatriots to show that they have learned from the events of the past,they are prepared to do a lot of soulsearching,and become more trusted partners in a future united homeland.

Brother, the fact that we did not rush to grasp and approve the last “solution” proposal, derives precisely from this soul-searching that you have mentioned above in relation to the past. We recognise that it was a mistake to try and break up or change agreements without the full consent of the other party in them, like we tried to do back in the 1960’s. We accept that when we enter into a deal with another party on anything, we have to be prepared to honour it until the end, and we should never opportunistically or under any intimidation or blackmail efforts of anyone, commit ourselves into something we do not reasonably accept to be fair and logical or to be serving our long term interests as well. Any new agreement, we want it be such that will allow us to back and honour to the fullest possible degree. Therefore it should be an agreement (a deal) which we can tolerate to a reasonable level, so that we will never have to even consider violating or changing with the use of deceptive means and ways.

This is in my view the biggest lesson of the past and the result of a very long soul-searching, and this is also why we didn’t accept the last proposal. Because we learned that we should never agree on something in which we do not consciously believe.

The fact that the two main communities increasingly see the other as the enemy to be crushed by any means is not good for my cou ntry.

I feel you are being a bit unfair on the above. I do not believe that G/C community sees the T/C one as the enemy to be crashed by any means, not at all, unless you take into serious consideration the comments of just one or two individuals in this forum who express such obscenities. I will even go one step further and say that I do not feel either that the T/C community sees the G/C one as the enemy to be crashed. The current stalemate perhaps creates a lot of anger and frustration, but certainly not hatred towards the members of the other community.

Bananiot's assertion that we have reached rock bottom so the only way from here is up is correct.

If what we have now is termed to be the bottom, then I wonder what were the 30 long years of complete frustration and dismay, during which we were banking on deaf ears and waiting for some blink in the north that would create some hopes for some movement. At least now we see each other’s faces and we talk to each other on a daily basis, and we exchange ideas and get to know each others deeper feelings and expectations from the future. I believe we have already reached the bottom and we are now on our way up and closer to the surface.

I wouldn’t give much credit to the panicking and scaremongering tactics of Bananiot & Cia.

[Kifeas]

Sorry Kifeas, but this sound too much like what the Denktas crowd has been accusing progressive Turkish Cypriots of. I have no sympathy for these treason arguements.

I didn't accuse them of being paid traitors! I only said that they give so much emphasis to what the foreigners (Anglo-Americans) say to us, perhaps out of fear, that they end up acting like their mouthpieces inside the G/C society.

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli wrote:

Democracy is not just about numbers,I hope we all agree on that.
Democracy is specifically about making sure that the minorities in a country get fair representation,get freedom of speech and political action,and feel welcomed and valued members of society. A democracy in which the majority try to push their own agendas and opinions on the minorities,nomatter what those minorities feel,cannot be a true democracy.


We all agree on that I believe, and no one has any such ambition towards the T/C community. Do you believe that anyone from the part of the G/C community has any such a policy in their mind, or wish to find a solution which will deprive the members of the T/C community from any of the above?

I don't personally believe that GCs have such a desire,Kifeas,but from what I gather most TCs are not so sure.The problem is they have not had the chances I had for debriefing,the chance to experience for themselves how honourable,generous,and compassionate Greeks and GCs can be.We need to generate trust in them.Or they will prefer assimilation to Turkey every time.

Birkibrisli wrote:
Here is the crucial issue as far as I can gather from reading these forums.the TCs do not believe they can trust the GCs to protect their interests or freedoms or even their basic human right of life.Given this we have Buckley's chance to get them to agree on reunification without rock solid guarantees that they will be treated fairly,respectfully and democratically in a united Cyprus.


Ok! We are ready to provide any given guarantee that this will not happen, without at the same time sacrificing fundamental and basic human rights and other critical historical and political interests of the G/C community. Is it unfair to take this approach?

Not at all.As long as the TCs will accept the guarantees they will be given.This will be more difficult than we realise,Kifeas.But worth exploring.

Birkibrisli wrote:
Being the majority it is upto the GC community to try to make the TCs feel more comfortable with the idea of reunification.From where I sit I see NO EFFORT WHATSOEVER ON BEHALF OF THE GCS IN THIS DIRECTION.

What would you suggest the G/C side should do in order to make the T/Cs feel more comfortable with the idea of reunification? I hope you do not mean that we should hide from them the truth as to what we can possible accept and what we cannot possibly accept in relation to the form and shape that a solution should take, versus what the T/C side demands from us. I would like to hear some more specific things that we could do in this direction.

I was thinking of measures like removing all Greek flags from the Republic,stopping the use of the Greek national anthem,inviting some Turkish teams to participate in the ROC football league,inviting them to join trade unions and political parties,giving them the right to vote and be elected to parliament even if they live in the North etc etc.(There might be legal reasons stopping some of these measures but political reasons should not get in the way-andthere will be an expectation the TCs will recipricate in kind of course.

You get my drift,Kifeas???
It is getting too late here in Oz,so i might leave it here and get back to your post tomorrow.It is good for me to think of practical things that can be done,as you can only take the theory so far.Let me know what you think of these ideas.Good night,brother...zzzzzzzzzz

[BirKibrisli]

Birkibrisli wrote:
TCs need their GC compatriots to show that they have learned from the events of the past,they are prepared to do a lot of soulsearching,and become more trusted partners in a future united homeland.

Brother, the fact that we did not rush to grasp and approve the last “solution” proposal, derives precisely from this soul-searching that you have mentioned above in relation to the past. We recognise that it was a mistake to try and break up or change agreements without the full consent of the other party in them, like we tried to do back in the 1960’s. We accept that when we enter into a deal with another party on anything, we have to be prepared to honour it until the end, and we should never opportunistically or under any intimidation or blackmail efforts of anyone, commit ourselves into something we do not reasonably accept to be fair and logical or to be serving our long term interests as well. Any new agreement, we want it be such that will allow us to back and honour to the fullest possible degree. Therefore it should be an agreement (a deal) which we can tolerate to a reasonable level, so that we will never have to even consider violating or changing with the use of deceptive means and ways.

I agree with you 100%,Kifeas.We cannot afford to have another stuffup like in 1963.Unfortunately the GC leadership has given the fanatical TC nationalists a big stick to hit you around the head with.They say and are believed by the majority of TCs "Look we couldn't trust them last time,how can we trust them now?" That is why extra effort is needed to win the trust of the TCs.

Birkibrisli wrote:
The fact that the two main communities increasingly see the other as the enemy to be crushed by any means is not good for my cou ntry.


I feel you are being a bit unfair on the above. I do not believe that G/C community sees the T/C one as the enemy to be crashed by any means, not at all, unless you take into serious consideration the comments of just one or two individuals in this forum who express such obscenities. I will even go one step further and say that I do not feel either that the T/C community sees the G/C one as the enemy to be crashed. The current stalemate perhaps creates a lot of anger and frustration, but certainly not hatred towards the members of the other community.

I might have been a bit overboard here,Brother Kifeas,due exactly to the kind of frustration with the stalemate you are talking about above.I am sorry I wrote the above in a tired and emotional state. I am a bit depressed by those statistics that suggest the ratio of GCs and TCs who want to live together is falling.Tell me,is there anything stopping the ROC government from introducing compulsory Turkish language and culture lessons at primary and high schools?This will go a long way to counter the negative feelings towards the TCs I am sure.

Birkibrisli wrote:
Bananiot's assertion that we have reached rock bottom so the only way from here is up is correct.

If what we have now is termed to be the bottom, then I wonder what were the 30 long years of complete frustration and dismay, during which we were banking on deaf ears and waiting for some blink in the north that would create some hopes for some movement. At least now we see each other’s faces and we talk to each other on a daily basis, and we exchange ideas and get to know each others deeper feelings and expectations from the future. I believe we have already reached the bottom and we are now on our way up and closer to the surface.

I wouldn’t give much credit to the panicking and scaremongering tactics of Bananiot & Cia.

Again I was going by the reports that opening the gates have had a negative effect on the two communities wanting to live together.But you are right,now at least we have the opportunity to see things with our own eyes,and judging for ourselves.I must say I do have a special affinity with Bananiot because we share the same fate of often being accused of being a traitor to our communities
I look forward to seeing things for myself in Cyprus soon...

[rawk]

Hi

Back just for a while. Your Greek Cypriot Gurl/Girl is a troll.

She may be female, just. The anagram of Greek Cypriot Gurl is Corrupt Girly Geek.

Be afraid! Be very afraid!

Rawk