Cyprus-Forum.com

[miltiades]

Cyperzokyli , my friend , and I mean this , you are a very decent peace loving individual who quite rightly hates war and the terrible suffering that war brings to innocent people . I'm aware that most of the world's nations have called for a ceasefire except America and Britain. I would like nothing more than to see a ceasefire , a sustained ceasefire that will not only last a week , a month or a year.
The current situation began with the incursion into Israel by Hezbollah and the ensuing events which Israel felt must not happen again and so began its drive to eradicate the risk.You are no doubt aware they the have accepted a proposal for a UN buffer zone 20 miles from the border , such buffer zone would ensure that Hezbollah were unable to fire rockets into Northern Israel.
I do not for a minute think that Hezbollah will accept it . Hezbollah are using civilian properties from which they fire their rockets , so the Israelis say. I only hope that Iran , or Syria do not make the dreadful mistake and join in , the results would push back peace prospects in the area beyond reach.

[cypezokyli]

miltiadis try to read carefully what i will write.

I believe hizpollah was very stupid to capture those two soldiers. i believe they are responsible as well for the current sufferring of the lebanese people. I believe that they should have known israels response and never capture those two people.
BUT
just like is very simplistic and one-sided to argue that the cyppro started in 1974 , so did the problem didnot start 12 days ago. important is to understand why things happen. israel holds hundrets if not thousands of people for no reason at all , and nobody seems to care or invading.

just like i undersdand the israeli security fears and where they originate from - they have been persecuted not only from the nazis , but for centuries before , and from almost all european states. concequently they do have fears that everybody wants to wipe them of the map,

so i try to understand the arabs. they , on their side feel a great injustice when the world mooves upside down for two captured israeli soldiers , while nothing happens for thousand captured from their side. from their side it is pure injustice miltiadi.

under the circumstances a strong peace keeping force is the best option. if they have a strong mandate they can bring peace, and if necessary take over the fight with hizpollah. but above all lebanon will have a chance to stand back on its feet and humanitarian help must go through wherever it is necessary.
where the UN had a strong mandate , it has been very succesful up to now.

if it continues more, they will destroy the military capabilities of hizpollah , but at the same time create so much hate for a new generation of fighters. dont forget that they have invaded lebanon 3 times up to now. what was the result ? if problems like that could be solved with military power , it would have been solved already from the first invation.

moreover when the whole world is condemning israel (including almost all the western world) doesnt it make you wonder why this is the case? is it possible that all the rest of the world is so blind ?

moreover i posted before what turkey would like to do in northern iraq. if israel is allowed to continue like this , then how could anyone stop turkey from entering north iraq "for reasons of self-defence" ? do you see that by allowing the israeli attack it creates a new "ethic of self-defence" with unpredictable concequences ? how can the americans prevent turkey when the turks have lost over 100 soldiers last year , when for two captured (not dead) soldiers israel is allowed to destroy a whole country ? i disagree with a turkish invation in northern iraq , but i try to understand the turkish frustrution.

[Kikapu]

The independent is run by a bunch of left wing vegetarians and is not considered representative of the British people.

Millions of people from mostly the third world chose on their own free will to run from their countries and settle in our civilized world , where they have prospered , educated their off springs , were provided with free health care .

Migration to the Western world is and has been at an all time high. We are busy here because what we offer is value for money , as a business man would say. Let me make your day once again.

Long may American continue as the superpower in the world. Long live the West , the provider of hope to the rest of the world.

Miltiades, Miltiades, miltiades...no it is not a Typo. If you were an American you will be living in Texas, and not too far from George Bush, because you will want to feel safe knowing he is there to protect you, just like all the right wing nuts, the Republicans. We don't hate the West, we are simply trying to save the principles we "Americans" and friendly Allies have held for long time, until the country fell into the hands of Neo-fascist-Consevatives that you're very proud to align youself with, or is it because you want to be on the side of a big bully, no matter what they do, and follow them like a sheep. Sorry my friend, but if you don't stop and ask question where their motives are in almost all of their actions towards other countries, then you have been suckered into their way of thinking. Let look at where you and they stand.

1. Blacks are mainly criminals
2. People from 3rd world countries can be paid slave wages to maintain high living standars for the Westerners.
3. The West can impose their will, on anyone.
4. When the other side hits back, it's their fault and not what we did.

After enslaving most of Africas young and strong for 200 years, now you have the nerve to say, they can't look after them selves, so they come to the West to be saved. Same goes to most of the Asian countries, where the British milked them dry from their natural resorces for centuries. The West owes them a lot, don't you think.

If they only knew how much oil there was and how important it would be today, I doubt any Arab country would have been allowed to keep them. Look what happened to Iraq, and I'm sure they would like to do the same to Iran.

I have sent you twice the website on "PNAC" on how the West has been planning to steal the oil from the Arabs, but I noticed you're keeping a low profile on that one, why, because you can't even say one bad thing towards the West, even though you know damn well, that most often what they do, it's only for their benefit. But that is OK with you, since you're able to profit from it.

If it wasn't for everything the Western civilization has stolen fom the rest of the world for centuries, it is quite possible, we would not be here today, as we know the West to be, so do not insult those people from other countries who are trying to defend what they have left, to support their race. Or do you really want them to kiss your feet, while you kick them with the other.

[miltiades]

Kikapu , this the excuse used by all immigrants from countries that were under the British "They milked our country for years as a result of which we remained poor"
Mugabe is also using the same excuse as his people are suffering the results of his idiotic policies.
As far as stealing the oil from the Arabs , I do not disagree that the West in order to satisfy its insatiable appetite for oil would go to any lengths to ensure its availability. The West without Arab oil would come to a standstill .
The West has offered to millions of people from around the globe the opportunity to improve their life style considerably and to above all the opportunity to bring up a family with the benefits available to all , child benefits , health care , education and of course freedom of speech.
Yes I'm proud of the West , I'm not a republican neither a democrat because i live in the UK .Voted Labour during the last 3 elections , but will switch my vote to Conservatives next time round .
You and many others on this forum tend to think that America is the devil and I completely and utterly disagree. For starters I would never align my self with the likes of BL and his psychopaths or Hezbollah , Hamas , Iranian Mullahs, or any one else dedicated to the destruction of the West and our way of life.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu ,Yes I'm proud of the West , I'm not a republican neither a democrat because i live in the UK .Voted Labour during the last 3 elections , but will switch my vote to Conservatives next time round .

You and many others on this forum tend to think that America is the devil and I completely and utterly disagree. For starters I would never align my self with the likes of BL and his psychopaths or Hezbollah , Hamas , Iranian Mullahs, or any one else dedicated to the destruction of the West and our way of life.

Miltiades,

I'm a Cypriot / British / American citizen, and since I have lived in the States for 25 wonderful years, in San Francisco, until 2 years ago, I can very proudly say that I love America, by living the life there and not watching it on TV, as I think, is what you have done. So when I criticize the West (USA & UK ), is only because it is my duty as a citizen to do so, when I believe, what they are doing, to be the wrong policy for great nations as such, to be doing. What they have done under these administrations, is nothing more than street gangs would have done. Illegal activities outside the international laws, is not what I expect from my nations. Stop getting things mixed up in your head. Just because I criticize them, does not mean I hate my nations. But you're a typical NeoConservative we have on the airwaves in the STATES. You were asked recently by a forum member as to where you get your news from. You replied, mostly from BBC and CNN. Did you forget to mention, perhaps almost all your news comes from FOX NEWS, because I have listen to them all on that station, plus on radio talk shows for many years, so I know what they say and how they say it, and you sound just like them. I also have the good sense to listen to other shows that is very critical of the NeoCons. I cannot understand, how a grown up person like yourself, would buy into their lies.

Have you opened up the web site for "PNAC" yet, because NeoCons never want to talk about that. Here it is one more time www.newamericancentury.org .I know it is a long read, but it only takes few minutes to read the "statement of principles".

[miltiades]

Kikapu , I'm not a child , I formulate my own views based on events as they develop . As far as I can see , had the events of 9/11 not occurred , things to day might have been very different. You state that you can not understand how a grown up person like myself would buy into their lies. Which lies Kikapu , that the terrorist threat is a real one , that there are fanatics that are planning daily how to cause maximum death and destruction in our cities , that in the UK there are fanatics who want to turn the UK into a stone age country.
Please elaborate on the lies in question.
I also criticize policies by Western governments and I'm grateful that I can do so without fearing for my life , unless of course I criticize a sect of people whose ideology forbids any criticism what so ever.
For your information the last film I watched , and I mean this , was BEN HUR in 1963 ,I watch nature programmes as well as political debates , current affairs , documentaries as well as comedy shows.
The administration that will follow the Bush one will do exactly what is correct for America. They , Americans , will never allow the terrorists to go unpunished , I only wish that more efforts are again made to solve the Israel / Palestinian issue .I doubt that a solution will be found that will bring peace to the region .It is also my belief beyond a shadow of a doubt that both Nations , Israel and Palestine , will carry on the killings and for as long as they both have their god on their side they will relentlessly carry on the killings. There is no reality for either nations , they immerse them selves in their religion and nationalism and continue the hatred . Do you wonder why I call my self a Cypriot and you my compatriot , it is because I genuinely believe that unlike the Jews and the Arabs we have something in common.We are all Cypriots .If all felt this way our island would be united and we would all enjoy a peaceful life.

[Landis]

Much is being made of Israels 'over-reaction' to Hezbollah and the loss of life of ordinary Lebanese. There is alot of coverage on news stations touting Hezbollah's social benevolence to the the Lebanese people. But this social benevolence is given with an aim for loyalty and future recruits. It has worked. The Lebanese people see this as Israel's evil, while placing Hezbollah in pious and righteous light. Forgetting that Hezbollah is first and foremost a terrorist organization of Islamic fanatics. It is Hezbollahs provocative action that has caused Israels reaction. While it is true that Israel's military might is greater than Hezbollah, it is also true that Israel is living a fragile existence amoungst neighbors like Iran, who has publicized it's belief that Israel has no right to exist.

What should Israels response be to an attack from a group that is backed by a much stronger military power who has professed its desire to annihlate it? Israel does not have a history of targeting regular civilians. However, Islamic powers have a history of surrounding itself with 'human shields' because they know how powerful the images of dead children and distraught mothers are. It is very sad and unfortunate that there are always civilian casualies in violent conflicts. However, you do not see and will not see the USA, UK, or Israel specfically targeting innocent people. US Sectary of State, Rice's visit to the region is a strong indication that the US will pursue a cease fire. Whether Israel takes heed or not remains to be seen. The West remains acutely aware of what India has known all along, that terror is alive and well. Only now, terrorists have no borders. No one know where or when it will happen.

The differences of an American democrat and republican or between the left and the right makes no difference to someone conviced by a group of cowards that martyrdom will bring riches and virgins. These cowards direct their lackeys not to military or political installations but to office buildings, commuter stations, and other areas where ordinary civilians gather. These cowards specifically and intentionally target ordinary civilians.

Hezbollah knew how Israel would respond and were counting on it. I suspect that Iran played a very big role in it in order to divert attention from its nuclear activities. Moderate Lebanese people see Israel's action and how Hezbollah is providing aid to them. I wonder if the Lebanese are even aware that Hezbollah made the first move. Probably not.

It gives me reassurance when to see Miltiades and Kikapu batting out their differences. You do so because you can. You have access to various media outlets and differing points of view. Most importantly, you have no one preventing you from forming your own perspective.

[miltiades]

Let Miltiades be the first to welcome you to the forum.
You have posted an excellent report and I do hope it is not going to be the only one.
You have said all that I have consistently stated , I'm not going to thank you for sharing my views , it would be like saying thanks to some one who agrees with you that cruelty to children is wicked.
I'm also thankful that I can , as well as Kikapu , Zypezokyli and everyone else express our views without fearing repercussions most precious element in life is freedom of speech of thoughts of faith of political affiliations West gives all to us.
I'm sure you will join me in wishing that A CEASFIRE IS SOON ESTABLISHED AND THE SUFFERING OF INNOCENTS CEASES.

[cypezokyli]

I'm sure you will join me in wishing that A CEASFIRE IS SOON ESTABLISHED AND THE SUFFERING OF INNOCENTS CEASES.

i will join you on that miltiades.

unfortunately we all know on whom that depends on

[miltiades]

Cyperzokyli , here you go again ,.It depends whether Hezbollah and its masters get it through their terrorist stupid heads that Israel will not go anywhere and if they want to have peace they will have to deal with Israel , just as we in Cyprus , at least some of us , have realised that in order to achieve peace we have to accept that the Turkish Cypriots are here to stay they are with us joint owners of Cyprus and we have to deal with them.Your Hezbollah mates cant wait to become martyrs and I don't blame them with all those fringe benefits awaiting them. Stupid bastards .Hope they all claim their rightful place in heavens and the sooner the better.

Cypezokyli , your honest opinion now please. Imagine my bad luck been abducted by Hezbollah who have read my posts , do you think they will reprimand me severely and try to get me to see their side of the story or would they do you think remove my head from my body. What do you think ?