Cyprus-Forum.com

[eracles]

They are just playing, they knew it could have been worse but they always have to make out they are bending over backwards and making huge sacrifices. This means later on the powers can beat the GC's with a stick and say, look...Turkey has made huge sacrifices, now you make some...like umm....how about living in an apartheid state???

Sorry guys but I think the EU is being too lenient. I have nothing against, and love with my heart the TC's. But when Erdogan says "We will not take a step that our national interests will not allow", his national interests do not include TC's. Only the Turkish Military and pride.

[brother]

Your elected leader tassos approved it and appluaded with everyone the succes of the negotiations, so your point is my friend.

[Bananiot]

There are so many threads. Its difficult to keep abreast unless one sits full time on the computer! I should like to give my opnion of the Brussels summit meeting.

I think Papadopoulos saw his sorry policies turn into dust. He got almost nothing from Ankara and he did not dare use his veto right. Europe managed to please France and other skeptics with some inclusions (open ended etc). Papadopoulos got an oral promise that Turkey will sign a customs union treaty with all new member states. This falls short of what we were hearing in Cyprus. The government, through the Foreign Secretary, listed seven conditions, which included full recognition of the RoC, de-recognition of the "TRNC" and pulling out the army. These conditions constituted the red line according to the nationalist circles. Some of his close allies and supporters are now very angry at him but basically he was trapped in a cul de sac. Vetoing the entry of Turkey was out of the question since this would have been his end. So, he gave a very reluctant YES and now, back in Cyrpus, he has joint the ranks of the "nenekis", the very people he scorned only a couple of months ago.

This may provide another window for another effort to solve the Cyprus issue, of course based on the A plan. I can see a new move, probably spearheaded by the Americans in the next few weeks and this move may target AKEL whose leadership concluded in April, prior to the referendum, that the plan reunited Cyprus and meant the eventual withdrawal of the vast percentage of the troops. AKEL asked for reassurances and pressed the security issue. Suppose these are given. What will AKEL do?

Well, here you are. I hope this party reverts to its old self. This may be our last chance.

I also like to congratulate Turkey for its date and I look forward to the day when Turkey becomes a full member of this exclusive club. This will remove the ground from the feet of the nationalists of both countries and will open a new chapter in our history. We will begin at last to look to the future, rather than keep looking back.

[magikthrill]

See, you claim that Cyprus didn't get what it wants, when if seen from another POV one can see it as Cyprus actually did get what it wants.

Obviously, Cyprus will ask for a the full recognition and full derecognition of the pseudo-state. In return they got a customs union agreement, which is good enough - for now. This is what diplomacy entails.

Of course, Turkey will never enter the EU until Cyprus has been recognized by Turkey, at minimum. This only makes sense. Talks may continue after 3rd October, 2005 without full recognition, but Turkey's -potential- membership will not go through unless most of Cyprus's requirements have been fulfilled.

In addition, according to some news reports I saw on Greek television, the EU will accept Turkey's customs agreement as full recognition. I am not sure how valid that is.

Berlusconi put it best when he said you can't join a family if you don't recognize one of its members.

[erolz]

See, you claim that Cyprus didn't get what it wants, when if seen from another POV one can see it as Cyprus actually did get what it wants.

It was a compromise.

Obviously, Cyprus will ask for a the full recognition and full derecognition of the pseudo-state. In return they got a customs union agreement, which is good enough - for now. This is what diplomacy entails.

Actually (as I understand it) 'they' (RoC) got a commitment that the custom union will be extended to all 10 new member states before Oct 2005. Which is no less a compromise.

Of course, Turkey will never enter the EU until Cyprus has been recognized by Turkey, at minimum. This only makes sense. Talks may continue after 3rd October, 2005 without full recognition, but Turkey's -potential- membership will not go through unless most of Cyprus's requirements have been fulfilled.

Nobody doubts this (that Turkey will have to recognise Cyprus). However the process of accession is likley to take 10-15 years. What the status of Cyprus will be by then is unkown.

In addition, according to some news reports I saw on Greek television, the EU will accept Turkey's customs agreement as full recognition. I am not sure how valid that is.

From the press conference I saw the EU was clear and explicit that the signing of the customs union did not equate to recognition of the RoC. He also expressed an opinion that it did move things closer to such acceptance in the future.

Berlusconi put it best when he said you can't join a family if you don't recognize one of its members.

Actually I find this analogy not a good one. People join families (by marriage) all the time whilst some members of that family either refuse to 'accept' or 'recognise' the person and visa versa. However I do understand the point that the analogy attemps (badly imo) to make I just think its a bad analogy. Of course Turkey can not join the EU without recognising a member state. One solution then would be to abbandon its attempts and entry. Another would be to abandon the TRNC. Another would be to try and work for senario in Cyprus such that recogition is not a problem for Turkey. At this stage I think the last option is the one that Turkey and the EU will work towards for the forseeable future.

[brother]

You are fooling yourselves, tassos barely got the customs agreement out of turkey, both turkey and cyprus had red lines, turkey did not cross them, ROC is chocking on its red lines at the moment, as erdogan said to the E.U leadership prior to almost walking out 'do you choose 600000 GC to 70 million turks' and guess what they did not let him walk out.

All those who think tassos was playing a good political game now know tassos is full of s**t, i know it hurts but you will get over it.

[magikthrill]

You are fooling yourselves, tassos barely got the customs agreement out of turkey, both turkey and cyprus had red lines, turkey did not cross them, ROC is chocking on its red lines at the moment, as erdogan said to the E.U leadership prior to almost walking out 'do you choose 600000 GC to 70 million turks' and guess what they did not let him walk out.

All those who think tassos was playing a good political game now know tassos is full of s**t, i know it hurts but you will get over it.

LOL!!! hahaha
im sorry but lets look at the facts:

1 December, 2004: Cyprus is part of the EU. Turkey is a 3rd world nation with the lowest GDP per capita and average literacy rate out of all current EU countries and is most definitely not part of the EU

18 December, 2004: Cyprus is part of the EU. Turkey remains a 3d world nation with the lowest GDP per capita and average literacy rate out of all current EU countries and is most definitely not part of the EU. Additionally, Cyprus is included in Turkey's customs union.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... If you ask me, looks like Cyprus got more than Turkey.

[michalis5354]

You are fooling yourselves, tassos barely got the customs agreement out of turkey, both turkey and cyprus had red lines, turkey did not cross them, ROC is chocking on its red lines at the moment, as erdogan said to the E.U leadership prior to almost walking out 'do you choose 600000 GC to 70 million turks' and guess what they did not let him walk out.

All those who think tassos was playing a good political game now know tassos is full of s**t, i know it hurts but you will get over it.

So what Erdogan had achieved? As you know membership is not quaranteed and there are many tough conditions set . That is it can be blocked at any time in the future If Turkey does not accept EU norms and practises! Turkey realised at the end that the it can not bypassed Cyprus as initially had planned. Have you seeing how erdogan initially reacted? He never expected Cyprus to be such a big condition for Turkey! And it was indeed ! EU leaders never ignored Cyprus as Turkey had expecetd . And it will appear again If not solved.This gave a very good lesson to Turkey.Again there is a deadline for Turkey this is Oct 2005- the date to start negotiations.

My friend R.Denktah is S***t you sudenly forgot how he wasted so much valuable time at the last negotiation and unfortunately this dangerous man is still your Loving leader!As long as this dangerous man is there the cyprus issue can not be solved!

[Piratis]

both turkey and Cyprus had red lines, turkey did not cross them, ROC is chocking on its red lines at the moment, as erdogan said to the E.U leadership prior to almost walking out 'do you choose 600000 GC to 70 million turks' and guess what they did not let him walk out.

They already choose the 600.000 GC, to the 70 mil Turks we said: "in 15 years ... maybe".

If you look at what Erdogan was aiming for, and what he was forced to accept in the end you will see there is a huge difference between.

As I said on the 17th before the agreement:

There is no way that Turkey will reject EU. They will just bargain as hard as they can until the last moment to get the best possible deal. Whatever that deal will be in the end they will accept it and they will present it to the Turkish people as a great achievement.

Erdogan is simply now trying to downplay the fact that Turkey will have to give RoC a de facto recognition by October, and the fact that he didn't get the guarantee for membership he was hoping for.

[erolz]

All this 'we won you lost' 'you lost we won' assments of the EU summit are pretty pointless as far as I can see.

In the end a compromise was reached.

It was a historic moment. For the first time in 40+ years the EU made a decisions to start accession talks with Turkey. There was considerable doubt that the EU (even without the Cyprus aspect) was not yet prepared to make this offer. This doubt is now over.

Starting acession talks can never be a guarantee of entry. It is a process of creating over time the necessary conditions to allow entry. In any accession process there is the possibility that these conditions can not be created. Historically no country yet has started this process and failed to acceed. It is also true that no accession in the past has been as complicated as Turkeys.