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The Republic of Hatay 1938-1939

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby GreekForumer » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:10 pm

Robert Fisk, famous ME journalist wrote:The shame of France's surrender of the sanjak of Alexandretta, including Musa Dagh, is an untold stories of the Second World War. Fearing that Turkey would join the German Axis, as it did in the 1914- 18 war, France agreed to a referendum in Alexandretta so the Armenian and Turkish inhabitants could choose their nationality. The Turks trucked tens of thousands of people into the sanjak for the referendum and, of course, the "people" voted to be part of Turkey.


http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010602/ai_n14385353

CHEATING ?
The Turks trucked tens of thousands of people into the sanjak for the referendum and, of course, the "people" voted to be part of Turkey.
:oops:
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Postby GAVCARoCOM » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:12 pm

This Problem is nothing to do with me anyway . Look America what doing in IRAQ but i cant do anything . I m a TC and i care only my country at the moment . TRNC
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Postby GreekForumer » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:08 am

Robert Fisk, Respected Middle East Journalist wrote:US power games in the Middle East
4 April 2007

Aanjar was in fact given by the French to the Armenians after they were forced to leave the city of Alexandretta in 1939 - the French allowed a phoney referendum there to let the Turks take over in the vain hope that Ankara would fight Hitler - and Aanjar's citizens hold their title deeds. But receiving threats that they are going to be ethnically cleansed from their homes is - for Armenians - a terrible reminder of their genocide at the hands of the Turks in 1915. Lebanon likes its industrious, highly educated Armenians who are also represented in parliament. But that such hatred could now touch them is a distressing witness to the fragility of the Lebanese state.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fis ... 371575.ece


Phoney Referendum !
Threats of ethnic cleansing !

"Hatay must be Turkish ruled!"

A forgotten history from the late 1930s.
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Postby free_cyprus » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:15 pm

GreekForumer
first of all we are cypriots we speak greek and turkish yes but i hav e never excepted and never will except we are greeks and turks and we can actualy trace our ancesters back to greece or turkey this is bull shit hundred years ago people of cyprus 98% of them couldnt even read or write for feck sake they just did what they were told you are greek they said cypriot said yes you are turk they said cypriot said yes ................. our little cyprus has been the yes island of history..................... soo if you want an argument about whatever palce your talking about go ans peak to the turks or greeks or whover we are cypriots the onlything we have in commmon with you greeks and turks is the language we speak thats it ...............ohh i forgot to add also we have another association with turkey and greece and its this you lot love to fuck us
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Postby LENA » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:57 am

GreekForumer wrote:
shahmaran wrote:and your point? or are we supposed to cleverly piece it all together and read your mind?


The point is........

You can have your 20% Cyprus Partition if you return 60% of Hatay province back to the 60% non-Turks (whom it was stolen from by fraud, back in 1939). It's only fair. Don't you think ?


:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

And we supposed Cyprus and Hatay belong to you and you are just exchanging your property ha...And you talk about fair things...yea right :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Postby akiner » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:20 pm

GreekForumer wrote:
GAVCARoCOM wrote:
GreekForumer wrote:
GAVCARoCOM wrote:I didnt all this because this is very long ,
All i know about Hatay is that people there choose to be with there with election and regular this election is happening . Another thing that Hatay people people have better services from the other part from Turkey and Police is more friendly because of the situation. The people ive there they want to be with Turkey and not Suriye and most of them Arabs. One of the hatay person told me this.


If you read the articles, you would have discovered that the Turks only made up 40% of the Republic. The other 60% DID NOT WANT TAKSIM/ENOSIS.

Not only that, the Turks, with the help of the French, CHEATED to reach 66% of the assembly and then voted to join Turkey!

I repeat, 60% of the people DID NOT WANT TAKSIM/ENOSIS WITH TURKEY.
HATAY : "in a free, honest count the Turks would have little chance of winning."


As much as i know personally from the people who live there . They did want it and election is regularly happening. I m sure about this. Anytime they like they can be seperated or join Somewherelse.


GAVCARoCOM, just before Turkey took over in 1939, tens of thousands of people packed their bags and left Alexandretta (Hatay). These people do not participate in elections in Hatay anymore. They voted with their feet. The demographics have been changed forever.


GAVCARoCOM wrote:They did want it


In 1939, 60% did not.

"Turkey took over, and pressured non-Turks who would not accept Turkish citizenship to leave."

"in a free, honest count the Turks would have little chance of winning. "

"At another time a League of Nations plebiscite was to be held in the district, but when most of the non-Turks banded together and it became obvious that the Turks could not win, the obliging French invited the League Commission to leave. "


And we have to believe Time Magazine as a trustworthy source...

Stop kidding pls
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Postby umit07 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:23 pm

I'd just like to pt out an interesting fact , I can say that over half the construction workers in the north are from HATAY, and are nearly all arabs. I can say that there are around 20,000 arabs from Hatay working in th north. Just pointing this out to show that they all did not leave.
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Postby BC Numismatics » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:33 pm

I have heard of Hatay,as it had its own stamps for a short time.I didn't know that Turkey was engaging in ethnic cleansing in that part of the Middle East though.

Aidan.
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Postby GreekForumer » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:54 am

akiner wrote:

"Turkey took over, and pressured non-Turks who would not accept Turkish citizenship to leave."

"in a free, honest count the Turks would have little chance of winning. "

"At another time a League of Nations plebiscite was to be held in the district, but when most of the non-Turks banded together and it became obvious that the Turks could not win, the obliging French invited the League Commission to leave. "


And we have to believe Time Magazine as a trustworthy source...

Stop kidding pls


Here is a more serious source for you.

International Monitoring of Plebiscites, Referenda and National Elections
By Yves Beigbeder

In implementation of the agreement, the Council of the League appointed an Electoral Commission in order to organize the election of the Sanjak Assembly. It's work was interrupted, in December 1937, at the request of Turkey, when it became clear that the electoral procedure would not ensure a Turkish majority. The Council agreed reluctantly to revise the Electoral Law, but a Turkish majority could not be obtained as long as an impartial body was there to supervise the proceedings.

The French Authorities in the Sanjak, together with the Turks, made the work of the League's Commission impossible. In the dramatic pre-World War II period, the French wanted to keep their good relations with Turkey. On 26 June the Commission suspended it's work and returned to Geneva in indignation. A friendly French-Turkish organization replaced the neutral Commission: A Turkish majority in the Sanjak Assembly, led to a Sanjak Government composed only of Turks. Turkish troops were stationed in Alexandretta and in June 1939, the Sanjak was annexed to Turkey under the Turkish name of the Hatay.

Neither the Council or the Mandates Commission of the League had been involved in these latter developments.

Google Books


Contrast that with a Turkish Government website......

Presidency of the Republic of Turkey

In June 1939 the Hatay Parliament unanimously resolved to join Turkey.

http://www.cankaya.gov.tr/eng_html/ata.htm



unanimously :P
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National Pact border policy

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:39 pm

After the Turkish Republic was founded, one of the core principles became adeherence to what were known as the "Misak-ı Milli" (National Pact) borders, i.e. the doctrine that the Turkish Republic would henceforth exist within what de-facto had become its borders and renounce irredentist claims of any kind over any other territory. This is a period in which Greek Prime-Minister Eleftherios Venizelos signed a treaty of friendship with the new Turkish state (1930) and then went on to nominate Mustafa Kemal Atatürk as a candidate for the Nobel peace prize in recognition for his bold actions in abandoning territorial claims against his country's neighbours and instead promoting friendly relations with them. How far we have come from the spirit of those days to judge by the hate-filled posts about Turkey we sometimes see posted on this forum, usually by mainland Greeks.
Yes, there have been two major departures from the National Pact border policy since the Turkish Republic was founded, and these are both notable because they constitute such extreme departures from a policy that in general has been firmly adhered to. The first of these was the annexation of Hatay. At the time, this was a reprehensible act but I don't see how it can now be undone. I worked in the Gulf state of Qatar for two years and became acquainted with quite a few ethnic Arabs from Hatay who were working there. They all tell me that if a referendum were held there today not even one percent of the population would vote to join up with Syria. They are happy to be Arabic-speaking citizens of the Turkish Republic - in fact one Hatay Arab friend of mine told me that he and his wife deliberately only spoke Turkish at home so that their children would grow up monolingual Turkish speakers. People from Hatay are also staunch supporters of Atatürk and his reform programmes. You only have to look at the size of the vote gained there by the CHP, the party that embodies these reforms. A further important factor is that Hatay Arabs belong to the Alawite sect, which is considered to be heretic by many main-stream Muslims, and for this reason they fully embrace the secular nature of the Turkish Republic without which they would face persecution. They would not receive the same liberal treatment in Syria. So, I am afraid that the Arabs of Hatay have no wish to leave the Turkish Republic, and as such that sorry episode of history is closed.
The second major departure from the National Pact border policy was obviously Cyprus post 1974. This particular episode of history is definitely not closed, and I find the statement that "if Turkey gives back Hatay (to France?) then she can keep twenty percent of Cyprus" to be dangerously misconceived, even if made in jest. Personally, I think Turkey has become hoisted by its own petard in Cyprus. She calculated that the EOKA-B coup would lead to Enosis, and she wanted to make sure that this was double Enosis. Instead, various processes were set in motion that strengthened the Republic of Cyprus rather than leading to its demise, and Turkey has been left holding the illegitimate baby of north Cyprus without really knowing what to do with it. Unlike Hatay, I do not believe that the status quo represents the will of the majority of Cypriots, so this episode is certainly not closed, and I would question the usefulness of drawing parallels with Hatay.
I am concerned that we may be seeing the beginnings of a third departure from the National Pact border policy in the north of Iraq. In fact, a lot of developments in Turkey nowadays trouble me greatly. I thought that when Erdoğan was re-elected this was supposed to send a strong message to the army to stay out of politics. The deep state, far from retreating to lick its wounds, seems to have come back with renewed vigour. Using the recent upsurge in the Kurdish separtist guerilla activity, people are apparently being worked up into a frenzy of nationalist fervour, with attacks on coffee houses frequented by Kurds and stonings of long-distance buses travelling to Kurdish regions. To say nothing of the recent murder of a Catholic priest. The Cyprus card is also being used - not long ago Denktash senior was wheeled out to give a series of lectures at various venues in the north of Cyprus, and these lectures were very well publicised in the mainland Turkish press. It is as though the stage is being set for some kind of radical new move. I wonder what. Do other observers of developments in Turkey share my worries? (I mean serious observors, not the "Turks are animals and their capital is Wankara" school of thought).
As to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk himself, yes, a lot of his pronouncements in the fields of linguistics, history, ehtnography etc. are highly suspect if not downright fallicious. However, you have to draw up a balance sheet and list the positive as well as the negative. Just because he made a lot of specious statements about the history of the Turkish people and their language does not detract from the great service that he did to his people in creating a modern, law-based country.
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