Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

The point is the E.U will bend the rules when it suits them.

[mehmet]

Magicthrill,

I am pleased you agree with me that it is prepostorous to think two million Greek's will come to Cyprus and maybe you will also agree with me that one million Turks sounds a bit extreme. In any case Cyprus will only grow to the degree to which the economy will support the growth. So perhaps we need to stop worrying about Turkish people coming to Cyprus if Turkey is in EU. It is just as likely that Turkish Cypriots will continue to go to Turkey if the Turkish economy benefitted form being in the EU.

[magikthrill]

mehmet,


Turkish visiters coming to a united RoC wouldn't be a problem. The problem lies in that there are already illegal Turkish settlers on the island.

Also, the day that Turkey's economy exceeds Cyprus' is the day I become Pope

[mehmet]

Magicthrill,

you keep bringing the issue back to 'settlers'. If you go with this thread it was about derogations. Now Alexandros talked about the possibility that one of the derogations associated with Turkey becoming part of the Eu is that it might be in RoC interests to have as a derogation a limitation on Turkish people moving to Cyprus. Without one someone could move and claim all his/her rights just like they would in any other EU country. As I understand Alexandros arguement, this would be the acceptable side of a deal that would also limit the number of Greek Cypriots that could live in the Turkish side of a federal government which I do not personally support. Now imagine for a moment that Papa negotiates the return of all 'settlers' in return for recognition as the government of all Cyprus and as part of the same deal by which Turkey joins EU. I know we are in fantasy world but imagine anyway. What would stop all those 'settlers' returning to Turkey and then returning the next day as Eu citizens to a EU country. So you see derogations can be a plus or a minus. Of course this will mean that 'settlers' have no claim on property or land they may have been using and I have no problem with that also.

[mehmet]

By the way, don't underestimate Turkey's economy. I know the Europeans don't, why else do they panic about Turkey joining. It has a young population, enough land to produce all its own food and spare to export and due to cheap labour costs has many industries. If you were a Japanese car manufacturer where would you put your factory, In Cyprus with its higher wages or in Turkey?

[brother]

magicthrill made a silly statement and he should know that.
Why else would russia be asking turkey to consider partnership with it, as for the E.U they are buying their time for a few more years to be sure that turkey does what it say's it can and be independent without the IMF helping it out, current predictions indicate that by 2007 there will be no need for the IMF.

[boulio]

unfortunatly the imf is like the mafia,once your in they never let you out .i think the turkish economy will do alot better and this also goes for greece as well if corruption and favors were eliminated or at least brought to a minimum.

[turkcyp]

I want to add one thing to this topic.

It is very debatable whether the permanent derogations to EU law is legally acceptable to EU courts, because it is in essence against many things EU stands for.

So for TCs they have to try to solidify their wishes through other means than permanent derogations. And at the same time even if permanent derogations are obtained from EU they may be against human rights. So ECHR my nullify them later on.

If TCs want to sustain federal level equality, then this can only be guaranteed if we base the solution on residency and citizenship rather than, permanent derogations or race. Becuae limitations on the basis of residency is not against human rights but limitations on the base of race may be against human rights.

This is a legal way around it. This is why Annan Plan was not satisfactory in that sense to TCs because limitations were based on race not on residency. Many TCs ignored this point in the referendum, though.

Have a good day,

[magikthrill]

well my comment about Turkey's economy was more of a compliment to the Cypriot economy than it was a hit on Turkey (although it was obviously that too).

Also, it takes a lot more than just young people and land to develop a country (ie literacy).

As far as the comment about Japan choosing Turkey to build it's cars that is true, but that is not necessarily good. Cheap labour associated with low literacy rates of the workers can lead to huge growth for the company (ie Japan) but huge poverty for the workers (ie Turkey).

A similar case happened here in the US when I believe it was Ford (50% sure) that decided to move its labor to the SOuth and all the idiot SOutherners would fight over who gets to work for less money! Now those areas are nothing but impoverished ghost towns, even though the company was American and flourished either way. THis is a loose example Im sorry if nobody understands me

Lastly, Mehmet,

As I told you I dont think derrogations are a good thing. Whether they are Turkey entering the EU or the unification of CYprus. However, in terms of CYprus the only way I think a solution with derrogations would be fair is if they were only temporary and not permanent.

[-mikkie2-]

The issue of derogations is a complex one.

As far as Cyprus is concerned, the important thing is that EU citizens can settle in Cyprus, but that does not mean that they can vote in presidential or parliamentary elections. They can only vote in municipal or council elections.

Therefore, Cyprus could be flooded with a million Turks when Turkey joins the EU but they would not have the right to vote because they are not citizens of Cyprus. In any case, economics will dictate how many people can actually live and settle in Cyprus and there is no way it could sustain 1 million poor Turks!

Another thing, is that for example, Malta has a permanent derogation that limits the number of EU citizens that can buy property in Malta, but in Maltas case it is very specific because it is a tiny island with sky high property values and it would mean that property prices would go even higher and as such beyond affordability for the local population. This is not a derogation because of race however - it is purely economic.