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Greek Tragedy

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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby Get Real! » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:32 pm

Hermes wrote:It's the genius of the Greeks that even as a ruin the Parthenon is still an enduring symbol of human achievement.

Had Greeks built that it would've crumbled within 20-30 years… :lol:
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby supporttheunderdog » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:21 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Get Real! wrote:It’s a shame they loved it so much because now they want to take it and put an end to your “Hellenic” dreams! :lol:

Thank you. Finally you've got it, Einstein! They loved Greece so much, they had to have it. Now, ditto for their 'new love' Cyprus.

Don’t get too excited Oracle, because it’s not your ancestors that built those! :lol:


I'm not the one claiming an unbroken umbilical cord connection to specific mud huts or erection of only one temple. I know my ancestors were great movers. :D They moved around all over the Hellenic world and one even got as far as mapping 'Bretannia' whilst its illiterate natives picked berries in readiness for becoming 'Europeans'.


I take you have heard of Starr Carrs in Yorkshire, and the raised pathways in the Somerset levels,which represent earliest carpentry in Europe, and the Ness of Brodgar, (which predates Stonehenge, and the many other temples, not just Stonehenge, which dotted the landscape of Britain, etc. all of which demonstrate a sophisticated British (in the geographical sense) civilisation, with a complex society, that belies your underlying racist assertions about the British living in mud huts and eating berries - and at that time the Greeks were illiterate too until they borrowed Linear A from the (non Geek) Minoans to make linear B, in about 1600 BC (when the Ness of Brodgar, Stone henge etc were already old)
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:25 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Get Real! wrote:It’s a shame they loved it so much because now they want to take it and put an end to your “Hellenic” dreams! :lol:

Thank you. Finally you've got it, Einstein! They loved Greece so much, they had to have it. Now, ditto for their 'new love' Cyprus.

Don’t get too excited Oracle, because it’s not your ancestors that built those! :lol:


I'm not the one claiming an unbroken umbilical cord connection to specific mud huts or erection of only one temple. I know my ancestors were great movers. :D They moved around all over the Hellenic world and one even got as far as mapping 'Bretannia' whilst its illiterate natives picked berries in readiness for becoming 'Europeans'.


I take you have heard of Starr Carrs in Yorkshire, and the raised pathways in the Somerset levels,which represent earliest carpentry in Europe, and the Ness of Brodgar, (which predates Stonehenge, and the many other temples, not just Stonehenge, which dotted the landscape of Britain, etc. all of which demonstrate a sophisticated British (in the geographical sense) civilisation, with a complex society, that belies your underlying racist assertions about the British living in mud huts and eating berries - and at that time the Greeks were illiterate too until they borrowed Linear A from the (non Geek) Minoans to make linear B, in about 1600 BC (when the Ness of Brodgar, Stone henge etc were already old)


What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby Sotos » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:00 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby supporttheunderdog » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:09 pm

Sotos wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)



Yes, and whoever was living in the area now forming Greece was not speaking Greek at the time the "Cathedral of the North" was built at the Ness of Brodgar. The earliest stone buildings on that site, not mud huts, are now thought predate the earliest known phase of Stone Henge.

The effort to build those places required a complex organised and settled society, which you seem unwilling to accept.
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:27 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Sotos wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)



Yes, and whoever was living in the area now forming Greece was not speaking Greek at the time the "Cathedral of the North" was built at the Ness of Brodgar. The earliest stone buildings on that site, not mud huts, are now thought predate the earliest known phase of Stone Henge.

The effort to build those places required a complex organised and settled society, which you seem unwilling to accept.


Whatever language the Greeks were speaking during this neolithic period would be related to the one we speak today. This is more than you can say for these Norwegians stones piled together a few thousand years ago probably by the people Pytheas the Greek called the Orkas (now Orkneys :lol: ) - present day English is so far removed from any languages used in the UK over more than a few centuries ago.

http://www.greek-thesaurus.gr/Neolithic ... reece.html
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby Sotos » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:52 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Sotos wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)



Yes, and whoever was living in the area now forming Greece was not speaking Greek at the time the "Cathedral of the North" was built at the Ness of Brodgar. The earliest stone buildings on that site, not mud huts, are now thought predate the earliest known phase of Stone Henge.

The effort to build those places required a complex organised and settled society, which you seem unwilling to accept.


I do not question the abilities of ancient people... some of them did some great things for their era. But you seem to confuse places (e.g. Britain or Cyprus) with nations (e.g. English or Greeks).
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby kurupetos » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:24 am

When the Greeks discovered Britain the local savages had many tattoos covering their bodies. Pytheas named them Britons because of this.
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby supporttheunderdog » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:02 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
Sotos wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)



Yes, and whoever was living in the area now forming Greece was not speaking Greek at the time the "Cathedral of the North" was built at the Ness of Brodgar. The earliest stone buildings on that site, not mud huts, are now thought predate the earliest known phase of Stone Henge.

The effort to build those places required a complex organised and settled society, which you seem unwilling to accept.


Whatever language the Greeks were speaking during this neolithic period would be related to the one we speak today. This is more than you can say for these Norwegians stones piled together a few thousand years ago probably by the people Pytheas the Greek called the Orkas (now Orkneys :lol: ) - present day English is so far removed from any languages used in the UK over more than a few centuries ago.

http://www.greek-thesaurus.gr/Neolithic ... reece.html


I will pass up on commenting too much on the bilious racism inherent in your post exemplified by your unwillingness to accept that what happened in in the Orkneys was an autochthonous development, without contemporary parallel with anywhere in Nothern Europe. The latest Archeological studies tend to suggest that the Orkneys were influential over the rest of Britain, where eg the house layout was gradually replicated over the rest of Britain, with appropriate adaptions for local materials, reaching the Stonehenge area probably about 100 years after first appearance in the Orkneys.

Same for stone circles...

As for language in Greece, i think few serious acadamics would support your view. A study by proffessor Drews, the Coming of the Greeks, for example suggests 1600bc. Others think as late as 1100 bc, some as early as 2800 bc, but many suggest say 2100 bc to 2000 bc.

Now the neolthic civilisation on Greece was probably derived from the westward spread on non indo europeans out the top end of the fertile cresecent after the last ice age, in in waves which brought eg pottery and farming. The known nearby languages, eg that of the Minoans as evidenced by linear B or of the Hittites, does not seem to be related to Greek. These peoples were likely the Pelasgians, who were described by some ancient Greek writers as speaking a Babaric, i.e. Non Greek language.

Rather, the tried and tested theories by academics, who, unlike you, do not have any particular racist axe to grind, suggest that the particular IndoEuropean speakers who brought protoGreek into the Region came in to Greece From the North at about 2000bc. See eg Ivanov. They may have picked up about 1000 loan words, but the assumption you make seems to be supported by very few, at least not with any reasonable reputation in the topic. Just about everything that went to create what became Greek Culture, including the male Pantheon, seems to have arrived about that time.
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Re: Greek Tragedy

Postby supporttheunderdog » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:35 pm

Sotos wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
Sotos wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
What kind of 'message' is that? Is it in English?


It is ancient English as spoken by those who made the Stonehenge... oh wait... those people didn't speak English or any other Germanic language! ;)



Yes, and whoever was living in the area now forming Greece was not speaking Greek at the time the "Cathedral of the North" was built at the Ness of Brodgar. The earliest stone buildings on that site, not mud huts, are now thought predate the earliest known phase of Stone Henge.

The effort to build those places required a complex organised and settled society, which you seem unwilling to accept.


I do not question the abilities of ancient people... some of them did some great things for their era. But you seem to confuse places (e.g. Britain or Cyprus) with nations (e.g. English or Greeks).


I do not agree. I am very well aware of the difference between place and nationlities. IT seems to be "g"IG who is pushing the nationlist Greek agenda, making assertions anout Greekness of peoples who inhabited what is now called Greece, but where we do not know with what names those poeples called themselves or the are they lived in. Same for the inhabitants of Ness of Brodgar . It shows a problem with labelling. Given that, if I use the phrase British in relation to peoples who lived in The Islands in ancient times, it is only sense that they lived in an Island historically known as Britan, for almost as far back as there are written records of the Islands, where a variation of the name appears in the work of Pythea, though whether he coined the name or borrowed it from locals is not known. ( Herodotus may have written about the Islands some 800 to 100 years earlier say about 440 bc when discussing the Tin Islands, and by that the tin trade from Britain to the med was likely at least 600 years old, if not older. )

as an aside there is a school of thought which suggests a Germanic proto English may have been widely spoken in Eastern Britain in Pre Roman and Roman times, with the socalled celtic languages, eg Welsh, Gealic, being spoken in the west, with the alleged Saxon invasion being between 5000 and 50000 in total over a hundred to two hundred years, the earlier incomers likeky following rivers that flow in to the North sea, the Humber group in particular, the later incomers following the same routes.
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