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Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:20 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Nikitas wrote:In the present system our ID cards state the community we belong to. In a BBF deal incorporating EU principles that would arguably be unlawful. Greece had such a problem with the statement of religion on its ID cards a few years ago. How would a bicommunal person be classified on the ID cards?

Interesting.


It is not beyond the wit of man to find solutions to such dilemmas. Just have a look at Belgium ?


Apartheid supporter!

if you feel so strongly for unitary state i am perfectly willing to live in one super state made out of cyprus greece and terggy. one man one vote. you up for it.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:04 am

Nikitas wrote:Cypriotnado,

Your case just raised some questions about BBF. How would a person of mixed parentage, like yourself, be classified under the BBF arrangements. And I am not being at all humorous.

In the present system our ID cards state the community we belong to. In a BBF deal incorporating EU principles that would arguably be unlawful. Greece had such a problem with the statement of religion on its ID cards a few years ago. How would a bicommunal person be classified on the ID cards?

Interesting.


...if we are living in a BBF, like in Canada or the USA, it (said distinctions) would be by where you reside. Given that there will be zones, as in geographic areas identified as being within a territorial jurisdiction of a constituency, it should not matter if you are "Greek", or "Turkish" per se. It implies, that as a Cypriot there will be Universal Rights, those of an Individual, and as Persons another level of self-representation, there is a Liberty, by "being" somewhere, more choices, which is also implied.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Sotos » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:34 am

Nikitas wrote:In the present system our ID cards state the community we belong to.


Actually they don't. Neither do passports, birth certificates or anything else. How old is your ID?
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Jul 14, 2015 2:08 am

Sotos wrote:
Nikitas wrote:In the present system our ID cards state the community we belong to.


Actually they don't. Neither do passports, birth certificates or anything else. How old is your ID?


...and if they don't that is the best.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Nikitas » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:23 am

Oops, i gave my age away, my ID is pretty old, I must admit.

Still, the situation of a bicommunal marriage presents an interesting dilemma under BBF. One of the basic assumptions on which it is based is that there will be no widespread intercommunal marriages. As we saw in former Yugoslavia the phenomenon was widespread.

On a personal level, I am married to a non Cypriot, non Greek, and no she is not from eastern Europe either and she is not British.

If we move to Cyprus and live there for 3 years she can get nationality. Under BBF will she get rights to reside in either zone while I will be restricted to one region only?
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby erolz66 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:37 am

Nikitas wrote:Under BBF will she get rights to reside in either zone while I will be restricted to one region only?


Under BBF you could easily have the right to reside anywhere you want , either immediately, or after a period of 'abrogation' should there be a sudden and large scale changing of the community demographics of an area. It is within which federal constituency you will vote that will be determined by your community, not where you can reside. Your wife would have no such vote until she gained citizenship at which point I assume she could choose which and given your presumably would choose the GC community.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:24 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Under BBF will she get rights to reside in either zone while I will be restricted to one region only?


Under BBF you could easily have the right to reside anywhere you want , either immediately, or after a period of 'abrogation' should there be a sudden and large scale changing of the community demographics of an area. It is within which federal constituency you will vote that will be determined by your community, not where you can reside. Your wife would have no such vote until she gained citizenship at which point I assume she could choose which and given your presumably would choose the GC community.


...by where you reside. If you are "Greek", or "Turkish" matters as much as whether you are "German", a "Russian", or a "Jew", you live in a Constituency, it has an Agenda as well as its own distinct identity, the intention is the same, as electors. (assume: Free Movement, Free Expression, Free Association; as Cypriots)
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Lordo » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:19 pm

lets see if we can work out the nature and the magintude of the problem greace finds herself in.

they have 3.8 million workers in greace. take away 750,000 civil servants and that leaves 3.05 million workers. on the other side they have 2.6 million pensioners with 970,000 unemployed. that makes it nearly 3.57 million people that these 3.05 million support.

How the hell do you expect one persons tax to pay another persons income. who's fault is it again. who the hell decided to drop the age of retirement to 33 ffs. up against the wall and i mean now.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Nikitas » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:46 pm

No one retires at 33. Youngest possible retirement is for submarine crews, permanent not conscripts, at 35 and that is after 17 years as sub crews. Then come people who have worked in heavy and unhygienic jobs, ie chemical plants, mines, etc, who retire after 20 years of work.

There are some exceptions won by politically powerful unions and some generous clauses for mothers of underaged children.

For the majority it is 60 if you have 40 years of labour stamps, or 65 if you do not and soon the general age will be 67.

And now for what the superficial lot do not tell you. Here you APPLY for your pension. On application you must STOP working and prove it, ie by sealing your account books, and wait till a few months you get the minimum pension, then wait for up to FIVE years to receive full pension. Many people do not live long enough to get full pension. If you work after you get pensioned then you must continue paying social contributions increased by 50 per cent. Funny how no one asks how pensioners can survuve with no employment waiting for their pensions to start rolling in.

Greek bashing is fashionable in some journalist circles, which is OK, but not when facts fly out the window.
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Re: Greece - Europe's only hope of a change for good...

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:27 am

Nikitas wrote:No one retires at 33. Youngest possible retirement is for submarine crews, permanent not conscripts, at 35 and that is after 17 years as sub crews. Then come people who have worked in heavy and unhygienic jobs, ie chemical plants, mines, etc, who retire after 20 years of work.

There are some exceptions won by politically powerful unions and some generous clauses for mothers of underaged children.

For the majority it is 60 if you have 40 years of labour stamps, or 65 if you do not and soon the general age will be 67.

And now for what the superficial lot do not tell you. Here you APPLY for your pension. On application you must STOP working and prove it, ie by sealing your account books, and wait till a few months you get the minimum pension, then wait for up to FIVE years to receive full pension. Many people do not live long enough to get full pension. If you work after you get pensioned then you must continue paying social contributions increased by 50 per cent. Funny how no one asks how pensioners can survuve with no employment waiting for their pensions to start rolling in.

Greek bashing is fashionable in some journalist circles, which is OK, but not when facts fly out the window.


Interesting. It never did seem logical to have retirement at 33ish. I have a GC friend who was a saturation diver and he retired early (not sure how early ... maybe mid forties). Even now he is in his sixties he still suffers the effects of his occupation. So maybe in a very few rare cases this could be justified?
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