Cyprus-Forum.com

[Atheist]

Here are some practical ways to save money and improve our economy either immediately or relatively soon:

1. Tax the church. Take some of its property and give it back to the poor people.

2. Significantly reduce the army. It is useless. It can't liberate Cyprus, it can't protect our EEZ and it can't defend the free part of Cyprus either.
Lots of money are wasted in buying/maintaining expensive weapon systems, paying "generals" and "EPI" from Greece not to mention wasting the time of our youth and the reservists.

3. Invest in educating our youth to take advantage of the information era. This one will take a few more years to have results but I believe it can have a great impact.
For example, there is a huge market for apps for computers, mobiles, tablets, smart devices etc. Small groups of people (or even individuals) can take part in this global market with minimal initial investment. And since this market is online Cypriots can be part of this global market without the need to emigrate and without being negatively affected by the local economy.

4. Instead of just handing out money to the unemployed, asylum seekers etc, have those people do something useful in return for that some money. Cleaning our streets and beaches, teaching small children if they are skilled or even require them to attend certain courses (maybe online) and pass some tests in order to have a right for the financial help. (in this I of course do not include old people, disabled, sick etc)

agree? disagree? any other ideas?

[Get Real!]

2. Significantly reduce the army. It is useless. It can't liberate Cyprus, it can't protect our EEZ and it can't defend the free part of Cyprus either.
Lots of money are wasted in buying/maintaining expensive weapon systems, paying "generals" and "EPI" from Greece not to mention wasting the time of our youth and the reservists.

Big mistake! The military is a deterrent to a potential attacker that there will be a price to pay if they decide to attack, in the form of casualties and monetary losses.

The aggressor knows that should he attack he will suffer an “X” number of losses which will be far greater than the losses suffered if there is zero or reduced resistance.

A deterrent is about making the attacker’s life more difficult so what you’re suggesting is to make it easier for them!

[Atheist]

2. Significantly reduce the army. It is useless. It can't liberate Cyprus, it can't protect our EEZ and it can't defend the free part of Cyprus either.
Lots of money are wasted in buying/maintaining expensive weapon systems, paying "generals" and "EPI" from Greece not to mention wasting the time of our youth and the reservists.

Big mistake! The military is a deterrent to a potential attacker that there will be a price to pay if they decide to attack, in the form of casualties and monetary losses.

The aggressor knows that should he attack he will suffer an “X” number of losses which will be far greater than the losses suffered if there is zero or reduced resistance.

A deterrent is about making the attacker’s life more difficult so what you’re suggesting is to make it easier for them!

Get Real, that is a nice theory and might hold true in cases where the two sides are not too far apart in terms of power. But in the case of Cyprus VS Turkey the difference is vast and our tiny in comparison army has never been a deterrent to them. On the contrary our army can create an excuse for them, as it was the case in 1974.

Take the situation in EEZ for example. The Turks are not deterred one bit by our army and they feel free to (again) violate our sovereignty at will. They probably wish we tried to oppose them militarily, as that would give them the excuse to harm us even more. Maybe you also remember the case at Strovilia some years ago. The Turks were essentially expanding their occupation and all we could do is plead to the UN.

[Get Real!]

Oh I’m pretty sure that the National Guard’s…

1. 15, 000 regulars + 105,000 reservists = 120.000 service men
2. 720+ fighting vehicles of all types
3. Squadron of Hind attack helicopters
4. 20 odd patrol boats equipped with Mistral S2A and anti ship Exocet missiles.
5. Hundreds of artillery pieces.
6. Six types of sophisticated S2A defenses including jammers + anti-jammers.

Are a lot harder for Turkey to overcome than your suggested… ZERO!

[Atheist]

Oh I’m pretty sure that the National Guard’s…

1. 15, 000 regulars + 105,000 reservists = 120.000 service men
2. 720+ fighting vehicles of all types
3. Squadron of Hind attack helicopters
4. 20 odd patrol boats equipped with Mistral S2A and anti ship Exocet missiles.
5. Hundreds of artillery pieces.
6. Six types of sophisticated S2A defenses including jammers + anti-jammers.

Are a lot harder for Turkey to overcome than your suggested… ZERO!

Still, not a deterrent. I remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Kuwait is a rich country and it even had an actual air force (34 Mirage F1 & 36 Skyhawks). It took Iraq 2 days to occupy it. Unfortunately most countries don't care to sacrifice a few 100s or 1000s of their own soldiers to get the "job" done.

[Get Real!]

Still, not a deterrent. I remember when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Kuwait is a rich country and it even had an actual air force (34 Mirage F1 & 36 Skyhawks). It took Iraq 2 days to occupy it. Unfortunately most countries don't care to sacrifice a few 100s or 1000s of their own soldiers to get the "job" done.

I sincerely hope that Turkey will think like you and assume that it will be a walk in the park but I doubt they are that naïve.

Any conflict on Cyprus will be fought with what’s already ON the island plus the Turkish air force and navy.

So don’t expect Turkey to abandon its vast borders and produce 550,000 soldiers on Cyprus as if by magic because it’s not gonna happen. In fact even logistically it would take months for them to accomplish that, if allowed to do so.

If the NG’s air defenses can contain their airforce (and I believe they can) then what they’ve got on the ground shouldn’t be so hard for us to confront because most of our equipment are actually better.

For example, our main battle tanks have a range of 1600m but theirs only go to 1200m so as they approach each other there will be a 400m death zone for them.

Take note that I’m not saying that Turkey doesn’t have better MBTs than us back home… of course they do but they won’t be here ON Cyprus and getting them here would take many weeks.

My only concern is their navy because we can only strike them up to around 75km max with our variant of Exocets.

[Paphitis]

2. Significantly reduce the army. It is useless. It can't liberate Cyprus, it can't protect our EEZ and it can't defend the free part of Cyprus either.
Lots of money are wasted in buying/maintaining expensive weapon systems, paying "generals" and "EPI" from Greece not to mention wasting the time of our youth and the reservists.

Big mistake! The military is a deterrent to a potential attacker that there will be a price to pay if they decide to attack, in the form of casualties and monetary losses.

The aggressor knows that should he attack he will suffer an “X” number of losses which will be far greater than the losses suffered if there is zero or reduced resistance.

A deterrent is about making the attacker’s life more difficult so what you’re suggesting is to make it easier for them!

Get Real, that is a nice theory and might hold true in cases where the two sides are not too far apart in terms of power. But in the case of Cyprus VS Turkey the difference is vast and our tiny in comparison army has never been a deterrent to them. On the contrary our army can create an excuse for them, as it was the case in 1974.

Take the situation in EEZ for example. The Turks are not deterred one bit by our army and they feel free to (again) violate our sovereignty at will. They probably wish we tried to oppose them militarily, as that would give them the excuse to harm us even more. Maybe you also remember the case at Strovilia some years ago. The Turks were essentially expanding their occupation and all we could do is plead to the UN.

You are sadly mistaken!

The CNG actually outnumbers the Turkish Military in Cyprus when it's fully mobilized and has greater capability with the exception of Air Power which will not determine the result of a future conflict.

Further to that, reinforcements from Turkey will only be a trickle because the Turkish Military has logistical limitations.

So yes, the CNG is a deterrent to war.

You make the mistake to compare the numbers holistically rather than look at what is present in Cyprus and the CNG's ability to move its forces around the island in small numbers. It is a very credible force.

A country with a Defence Force of 75000 can defeat a country with 1000000. You need to look at the capability, the type of warfare to be waged and the logistics.

Some countries that have Defence Forces smaller than the CNG actually have 2 aircraft carriers and can bombard Turkey constantly destroying the countries infrastructure and economy in a matter of days. Just to put things into perspective.

Look at Israel, Australia and Canada.

[Atheist]

Listening to you two makes me wonder why we haven't used our army to liberate Cyprus yet. Please get serious. We are talking about a country with a population which is literally 100 times bigger than ours and has one of the top 10 armies in the world.

Get Real, don't listen to what "monimoi" are telling you. They say all that nonsense because they want to keep their jobs. Instead of that, when you go to the army next time, open your eyes and look at the sorry state of our tiny army.

If the Turks need to upgrade their army in Cyprus before an attack they will do it. They can do it fast if they want, but they can do their upgrade and increase their numbers at a leisurely pace over several months. So what? What are we going to do meanwhile? Destroy them with a pre-emptive strike? We can't. Buy more guns to match them? We are broke and in any case we can't match them. Import soldiers from Sri Lanka to match the additional Turkish forces? Call our whole male population, give them a G3 and place them in trenches, keeping them there for months until our economy collapses (since nobody will be working) and we starve to death?

It wouldn't be a problem if this kind of wishful thinking mentality was free. But we are broke and we continue wasting millions of euro on something that has always been at the very best useless, and at the very worst an excuse for our enemies to attack us.

[miltiades]

Listening to you two makes me wonder why we haven't used our army to liberate Cyprus yet. Please get serious. We are talking about a country with a population which is literally 100 times bigger than ours and has one of the top 10 armies in the world.

Get Real, don't listen to what "monimoi" are telling you. They say all that nonsense because they want to keep their jobs. Instead of that, when you go to the army next time, open your eyes and look at the sorry state of our tiny army.

If the Turks need to upgrade their army in Cyprus before an attack they will do it. They can do it fast if they want, but they can do their upgrade and increase their numbers at a leisurely pace over several months. So what? What are we going to do meanwhile? Destroy them with a pre-emptive strike? We can't. Buy more guns to match them? We are broke and in any case we can't match them. Import soldiers from Sri Lanka to match the additional Turkish forces? Call our whole male population, give them a G3 and place them in trenches, keeping them there for months until our economy collapses (since nobody will be working) and we starve to death?

It wouldn't be a problem if this kind of wishful thinking mentality was free. But we are broke and we continue wasting millions of euro on something that has always been at the very best useless, and at the very worst an excuse for our enemies to attack us.

Ever thought of giving the USA unlimited bases in Cyprus ?? They will come very handy with whats going on in the ME right now. Israel too !

[Paphitis]

Listening to you two makes me wonder why we haven't used our army to liberate Cyprus yet. Please get serious. We are talking about a country with a population which is literally 100 times bigger than ours and has one of the top 10 armies in the world.

Get Real, don't listen to what "monimoi" are telling you. They say all that nonsense because they want to keep their jobs. Instead of that, when you go to the army next time, open your eyes and look at the sorry state of our tiny army.

If the Turks need to upgrade their army in Cyprus before an attack they will do it. They can do it fast if they want, but they can do their upgrade and increase their numbers at a leisurely pace over several months. So what? What are we going to do meanwhile? Destroy them with a pre-emptive strike? We can't. Buy more guns to match them? We are broke and in any case we can't match them. Import soldiers from Sri Lanka to match the additional Turkish forces? Call our whole male population, give them a G3 and place them in trenches, keeping them there for months until our economy collapses (since nobody will be working) and we starve to death?

It wouldn't be a problem if this kind of wishful thinking mentality was free. But we are broke and we continue wasting millions of euro on something that has always been at the very best useless, and at the very worst an excuse for our enemies to attack us.

Listening to you someone would think that the U.S. would have invaded North Korea by now.

Unfortunately your outlook is too simplistic. The CNG is quite well placed in terms of capability against the Turkish Military in Cyprus. I also believe they can defeat them but breaking the ceasefire is a big call from either side and there will be a lot of casualties - hundreds of civilians as well, if not thousands.

The Turkish Military does not have the logistical might to reinforce its troops in Cyprus quickly. Further to that, they will have no airports or ports because these would be destroyed in the first hours. Potentially, they will need another beachhead and that could be very messy.

But what you are proposing, is almost an open invitation for the Turkish Military to go for a leisurely Sunday drive all the way to Paphos.