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Syriza say it as it is!

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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:35 pm

This is what I found online after a very quick search.

After the war, east and west Germany was obliged to pay war reparations to the allied governments. Great Britain, the US, France and Russia must have profited nicely from the division of the country.

Greece, was forced to lend the the occupying Nazis around 417 million Reischmark at 0% interest. Since, Greece has only received / accepted 115 million marks as compensation for Nazi crimes.

Greece claims $303B (about 285 billion euro) in today's money to settle the debt.

Some Germans say the issue was resolved in 1990 because they signed the two plus four agreement with the US, Great Britain, France, and Russia, before reunification.

Does Greece have a case? Sure, why not? They didn't sign an agreement with Greece. Do the math.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:11 pm

Lordo wrote:aint it a little late to be asking for war reparations.


Its been 40 years since the Turkish theft of north Cyprus. No compensation has been given yet.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:38 pm

Maximus wrote:
After the war, east and west Germany was obliged to pay war reparations to the allied governments. Great Britain, the US, France and Russia must have profited nicely from the division of the country.


Exactly, Maximus!

The reason many Brits want this matter silenced, is that some former-colonies (Cyprus included!) might just turn round and say ... "Hey Britain, we fought for the British Army also so where is our share of what you got from Germany????"
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:59 pm

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
Maximus wrote:
After the war, east and west Germany was obliged to pay war reparations to the allied governments. Great Britain, the US, France and Russia must have profited nicely from the division of the country.


Exactly, Maximus!

The reason many Brits want this matter silenced, is that some former-colonies (Cyprus included!) might just turn round and say ... "Hey Britain, we fought for the British Army also so where is our share of what you got from Germany????"


If Germany insists everything was settled in the two plus four agreement (1990) then Greece can turn to the allied governments (UK, US, France, Russia) and say; since you signed this agreement on our behalf, where is our share?

If the allied governments say, we did not sign on your behalf, then back to Germany Greece goes and states the obvious.

Greece does have a case in my opinion.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Maximus » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:17 pm

Yes, Cyprus and Greece and Russia fought with the allied governments of the west.

Once the Nazi regime was toppled, Britain and the US acted like the Nazis in Cyprus some decade later and the west in general has made a bogey man out of Russia.

And, probably profiting nicely from the division of Cyprus.

Isn't this the truth.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:34 am

GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Syriza are living in Dreamworld and I think gIG is too (that or in Cloud Cukoo land) .... all pointers indicate that reparations issues were settled either in 1960 or 1990 and this just smoke and mirrors by Syriza...


Really, settled, you say? Then why does the article inform us of this:


"Athens’ demand for repayment of its forced wartime loan has found support from the German opposition, with members of the Greens and the far-left Die Linke party saying Berlin should honour the debt."

- Rather an ungenerous sentiment from you STUD (but then you are another racist, Greek-hater) considering Britain profited nicely from German reparations and Greece has been left impoverished!


They would wouldn't they?

They Greens and Leftist parties have a history of treachery and undermining the Governing administrations not just in Germany but in every country.

even Syriza was doing the same thing in Greece against New Democracy. Don't get me started on KKE! :roll:

It's lucky for Germany that these non serious "parties" are not taken seriously and only get about 2 to 3% if they are lucky.

As I mentioned Syriza undermining ND which was very pro EU/Eurozone, what Syriza are doing now is a pretty huge gamble which might pay off. And it might not. No one is too sure on how it might pan out for Greece if they Nationalize their Banks and exit the Eurozone.

Such bold moves should have occurred a few years ago, not now. But I hope it works out for Greece. What they are doing is very brave.

What is interesting is Iceland's recovery. They now have 3% unemployment and a booming economy and Banking Sector.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Oceanside50 » Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:18 am

Paphitis wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:Syriza are living in Dreamworld and I think gIG is too (that or in Cloud Cukoo land) .... all pointers indicate that reparations issues were settled either in 1960 or 1990 and this just smoke and mirrors by Syriza...


Really, settled, you say? Then why does the article inform us of this:


"Athens’ demand for repayment of its forced wartime loan has found support from the German opposition, with members of the Greens and the far-left Die Linke party saying Berlin should honour the debt."

- Rather an ungenerous sentiment from you STUD (but then you are another racist, Greek-hater) considering Britain profited nicely from German reparations and Greece has been left impoverished!


They would wouldn't they?

They Greens and Leftist parties have a history of treachery and undermining the Governing administrations not just in Germany but in every country.

even Syriza was doing the same thing in Greece against New Democracy. Don't get me started on KKE! :roll:

It's lucky for Germany that these non serious "parties" are not taken seriously and only get about 2 to 3% if they are lucky.

As I mentioned Syriza undermining ND which was very pro EU/Eurozone, what Syriza are doing now is a pretty huge gamble which might pay off. And it might not. No one is too sure on how it might pan out for Greece if they Nationalize their Banks and exit the Eurozone.

Such bold moves should have occurred a few years ago, not now. But I hope it works out for Greece. What they are doing is very brave.

What is interesting is Iceland's recovery. They now have 3% unemployment and a booming economy and Banking Sector.


Intuition tells me that there is something to what taipras is asking for and he may get a good part of what he is asking ,it may be in the form of direct German investment or a reduction of the debt total or even both....the only way the Greek economy will grow is through a reduction in debt payments and the Germans building their high tech plants in Greece.
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:20 am

Paphitis:
What is interesting is Iceland's recovery. They now have 3% unemployment and a booming economy and Banking Sector.

Guess what? They (Iceland) also have a sovereign currency and have sent a good few bankers to prison. They cancelled a lot of the debt, both public and private so, maybe this has got something to do with their impressive recovery? They are also considering changing the banking system to prevent the banks creating new money as debt out of thin air. The TBTF banks won’t like that!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/260617614/Iceland-Monetary-Reform

Greece I am going to guess, are going to do the same thing hence the call for a sovereign currency (New Drachma) bank nationalization and an independent central bank. They covered this in their manifesto.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11513341/Greece-draws-up-drachma-plans-prepares-to-miss-IMF-payment.html/

I sincerely hope Greece and Iceland go ahead with their plans and that their plan comes together. :D

Another new conception of debt that I never knew about until yesterday was the concept of ‘Odious Debt” where debts incurred by governments that were not directly for the benefit of the country and its population are considered as illegal and the new government has no obligation under international law to repay those debts as they are considered as personal debts of those that took them out. Nice one? :roll: :)
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Paphitis » Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:07 am

Robin Hood wrote:Paphitis:
What is interesting is Iceland's recovery. They now have 3% unemployment and a booming economy and Banking Sector.

Guess what? They (Iceland) also have a sovereign currency and have sent a good few bankers to prison. They cancelled a lot of the debt, both public and private so, maybe this has got something to do with their impressive recovery? They are also considering changing the banking system to prevent the banks creating new money as debt out of thin air. The TBTF banks won’t like that!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/260617614/Iceland-Monetary-Reform

Greece I am going to guess, are going to do the same thing hence the call for a sovereign currency (New Drachma) bank nationalization and an independent central bank. They covered this in their manifesto.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11513341/Greece-draws-up-drachma-plans-prepares-to-miss-IMF-payment.html/

I sincerely hope Greece and Iceland go ahead with their plans and that their plan comes together. :D

Another new conception of debt that I never knew about until yesterday was the concept of ‘Odious Debt” where debts incurred by governments that were not directly for the benefit of the country and its population are considered as illegal and the new government has no obligation under international law to repay those debts as they are considered as personal debts of those that took them out. Nice one? :roll: :)


I don't have an issue with sending Bankers to prison if they have done something wrong - but not for the hell of it.

I also don't particular care if Greece cancels some of its people's personal debts to its banks and if they all went down as a result. Maybe that will stimulate the economy. It would be good to see Hellenic Bight the dust and take down Batman with it. Now I know that Batman (His Beastitude Christo stoma Mouth) does plenty of illegal shit and you can make up a rap sheet a mile long for him. :D

I suppose Greece will need the support of its creditors to do such a thing as cancel its sovereign debts otherwise they are off the grid for some years. Maybe they will agree to a haircut.

At the end of the day, i would love to borrow money from the bank and not have to pay it back ever but it just don't work that way. :(
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Re: Syriza say it as it is!

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:21 am

At the end of the day, I would love to borrow money from the bank and not have to pay it back ever but it just don't work that way.


Wouldn’t we all? But, Sovereign currency allows the State to do just that and this is what the noises from Athens (and Iceland) are indicating!

Sovereign currency is created from nothing just as the commercial banks do it but it is not a loan and is spent into the economy by the State, free of all debt and as such incurs no interest. It is then recovered through direct taxes such as purchase tax/ VAT and is again reintroduced into the economy through the Government spending it. It goes around and around, unlike bank money which has to be created and then destroyed to allow the banks to lend it over again at interest! With a sovereign currency there is no need for income tax ........ it becomes defunct. It was only the introduction of the FED in 1913(?) that led to the introduction of income tax ......... the central bank needs it to recover the interest on the debt they created . The current system is debt slavery and all the time Greece remains in the Euro it will never be able to pay off its debts.

I think that Syriza are very cleaver bunch of people and aware of how the banking system works, unlike their Cypriot counterparts. All they have to do is face up to the bankers who will, without doubt, make it as difficult as possible for them to proceed and make it a success. If Greece does this then the Eurozone will collapse and other counties such as Cyprus, Spain, Portugal and Italy will follow suit and reintroduce their own sovereign currencies. I foresee the international banking cartels and the TBTF Banks making any such moves by Greece as difficult as possible and imposing sanctions as they have with Iran and Russia (among others) to bring them to heel! It will be interesting to see what comes out of Tsipras visit to Moscow?

I just hope Tsipras has the balls to take them on and that the Greeks look to the future and not just short term delusions about the Euro. :2guns:
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