Cyprus-Forum.com

[humanist]

That was a bit of an exlossion there mrfromng. Men I respect both of Piratis most of the time you have extremely sensible arguments and a gunuine passion for a united Cyprus .... I have observed your comments a few times. Mrfromng I beleive I chated to you before your father I beilieve speaks Greek and you think its a beautiful language right? So can't you see that our disussions on this forum are tearing us apart than bringing us together. We need to stop the beakering and get on with building trust because when you have trust you have respect otherwise its is false respect. If we truly want a unified Cyprus then we need to try harder and trust and respect. It's not just about the land it's about people and trust. If the refugees get their land back they will respect those who gave them their land back. If those who moved to the north in 1974 return to their villages they will be respected for handing back properties to rightful owners. If they feel respected they'll respect the rest of respecting them and it goes around the roundabouts and swings everywhere. Can't you see that is what will need to change fundamental attitudes that are traditions old....... never trust a Greek then that becoames a self fullfiled profecy .... if you walk around thinking that you will fullfill it.

[MR-from-NG]

Humanist, Piratis does this to me. He is so repetitive, he has nothing good to say about the TC's. Look at his posts, you will see they all include words like thieves, violation, human rights. He is like a parrot.

Yes I like the Greek language and I wish I was allowed to stay in my country at a time when I would have easily learnt it.

I have no problem with re-unification, lets go for it. What I do mind is Piratis' and co monotonous propaganda and anti TC attitude. He sees us as sub-human and clearly hates us with a passion.

Look at his previous posts and you decide.

[Piratis]

Humanist, Piratis does this to me. He is so repetitive, he has nothing good to say about the TC's. Look at his posts, you will see they all include words like thieves, violation, human rights. He is like a parrot.

When we are discussing about the Cyprus problem of course I will talk about the illegalities and the violations of human rights. What should we talk about then? Pizza recipes? The illegalities, the crimes, the violations of human rights etc are the issues that make up the Cyprus problem.

When you accept that illegalities and human rights violations should end and you stop looking for excuses to continue, then there will be no need for me to repeat anything. As long as you continue with lame excuses for illegalities and crimes I have every right to reply.

What did you think? That we will just accept your lame excuses and reply nothing?

What I do mind is Piratis' and co monotonous propaganda and anti TC attitude. He sees us as sub-human and clearly hates us with a passion.

Look at his previous posts and you decide.

Yes look at previous posts, and there you will find Mrfromng declaring that he hates all GCs.
I have never said that I hate all TCs or that I consider them sub-human. This is only part of mrfromng's imagination. On the contrary I always say that all Cypriot citizens should be equal without racist discriminations. Unfortunately this is something which is rejected by racist GC haters like mrfromng.

Who I strongly dislike, regardless of their race, are those that support human rights violations and illegalities. If mrfromng and some others are such people, thats their problem and not mine.

Regarding Turkey, the Cyprus Problem, as well as the human rights violations within Turkey, are exactly the reasons why the Turkish accession process is having serious problems. Maybe mrfromng should aslo accuse all Europeans as being "parrots" because they insist that Turkey should comply with what it is necessary? Maybe we should all stop being "parrots" and let Turkey continue with crimes and illegalities without her ever facing any consequences? Obviously this is what mrfromng would like, but sorry, we will not make you this favor.

[MR-from-NG]

Piratis, how about explaining to us all how these violation of human rights and illegalities started to begin with. Explain to us all what happened in 63 and 74.

You seem to disregard this period and give the impression that Turkey came and divided the island because they had nothing better to do.

The day you admit to the crimes committed against the TC's is the day we will have any hope of reconciliation and peace on our island.

Stop living in denial and face the realities of the situation.

Btw if you do have a nice pizza recipe lets have it, it would be a damn lot better than what we have to read from you every day.

[Piratis]

I don't like to talk about the past, but since you asked here is how it started:

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

The fall of Famagusta marked the beginning of the Ottoman period in Cyprus.

Since then and during the most part of our history Turks have butchered an oppressed Greek Cypriots by the thousands something that continues as we speak.

Explain to us all what happened in 63 and 74.

From 63 to 68 some fanatics from each side had committed crimes against both communities. The GC fanatics wanted enosis and the TC fanatics wanted partition. Each side had about the same number of casualties during this period.

The day you admit to the crimes committed against the TC's is the day we will have any hope of reconciliation and peace on our island.

I have condemned those crimes MANY times, but apparently you listen only what you want. The problem is that not only you do not admit your crimes against us (which are far more), not only you celebrate those crimes, but you continue committing them as we speak.

Stop living in denial and face the realities of the situation.

And the reality is not that Turkey illegally occupies part of Republic of Cyprus?
If you refuse this reality then I am afraid you are the one who is living in denial.

[zan]

GREEK BARBARISM



Part 1 - Greek Atrocities and Massacres of Turks During the Greek Rebellion, 1821-1822



How the Greek Rebellion Began

When Sultan Mahmut II, who was a patient and determined ruler, tried to strengthened the weakening Ottoman Empire with reform, he fell out with Ali Pasha of Tepedelen, the governor of Jannina. When the governor revolted against the Sultan in 1820, his action inspired the Greek revolutionaries to rise up to benefit from the rift among the Turkish rulers.9,24 The Greeks began their rebellion in the Peloponnese on 6 April 1821 (by the Gregorian calendar-25 March by the Julian calendar) with the slogan: "Not a Turk shall remain in the Morea", which inspired indiscriminate and murderous action against all Muslims.16 Upon hearing the news of the rebellion, some Greeks in the cities began killing their Turkish neighbours and setting fire to their property.13, According to the British writer William St. Clair, "The savage passion for revenge soon degenerated into a frenzied delight in killing and horror for their own sakes". Another British writer, David Howarth, observes that the Greeks did not need any reason for these murders, "Once they had started…they killed because a mad blood-lust had come upon them all, and everyone was killing".15,24

Massacres of the Turks

It is estimated that more than 50,000 Muslims , including women and children, lived in the Peloponnese in March 1821. A month later, when the Greeks were celebrating Easter, there was hardly anyone left. The few who managed to escape to fortified cities were suffering from starvation. Everywhere the unburied bodies of murdered Turks were rotting. According to William St. Clair:

"The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821, unmourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world…Upwards of 20,000 Turkish men, women and children were murdered by their Greek neighbours in a few weeks of slaughter. They were killed deliberately, without qualm and scruple…Turkish families living in single farms or small isolated communities were summarily put to death, and their homes burnt down over their corpses. Others, when the disturbances began, abondened home to seek the security of the nearest town, but the defenceless streams of refugees were overwhelmed by bands of armed Greeks. In the smaller towns, the Turkish communities barricaded their houses and attempted to defend themselves as best as they could, but few survived. In some places, they were driven by hunger to surrender to their attackers on receiving promises of security, but these were seldom honoured. The men were killed at once, and the women and children divided out as slaves usually to be killed in their turn later. All over the Pelopennese roamed mobs of Greeks armed with clubs, scythes, and a few firearms, killing, plundering and burning. They were often led by Christian priests, who exhorted them to greater efforts in their holy work".24

According to Steven Runciman, author of a history of the Greek Orthodox Church, "The great fathers of the Church, such as Basil, would have been horrified by the gallant[!] Pelopennesian bishops who raised the standard of revolt in 1821".23 This was not a war of Greek independence or liberation, but a war of extermination against the Turks and other Muslims, and the main instigators of it were the Greek Orthodox Christian clerics.

In 1861, the historian George Finlay wrote:

"In the month of April 1821, a Muslim population amounting to upwards of 20,000 souls, was living, dispersed in Greece, employed in agriculture. Before two months had elapsed, the greater part was slain-men, women and children were murdered without mercy or remorse…The crime was a nation’s crime, and whatever perturbations it may produce must be in a nation’s conscience, as the deeds by which it can be expiated must be the acts of a nation."12

According to the historian C.M. Woodhouse, the entire Turkish population of cities and towns were collected and marched out to convenient places in the countryside where they were slaughtered.30 In Greek Orthodox Romania also, the leader of the Greek rebellion, Alexander Ypsilanti, and his supporters took the towns of Galatz and Yassy. The Turks were surprised and massacred in cold blood.10,22

Turks Burnt Alive

In April 1821, the Greek residents of the islands of Hydra, Spetsa and Psara joined the rebels. They attacked ships carrying the Ottoman flag, capturing crew members and killing them or throwing them into the sea. They also captured and killed many Muslim pilgrims on their way to Mecca. According to British writers such as St. Clair, Howarth and William Miller, the Greek rebels captured 57 crew members of a Turkish vessel, took them to the island of Hydra amidst shrieks of triumph and there, on the coast, they roasted them alive on a fire.15,21,24

Many Greeks in Thessaly, Macedonia and Halkidiki, too, joined the rebels and began to attack the Turks without mercy. The Greek peasants who remorselessly killed their Turkish neighbours saw the rebellion as a war of religious extermination, and for the most part, the bishops and priest who led them, shared this view.24

Massacres of Monemvasia and Navarino

The Muslims of the small town of Monemvasia, besieged by the Greek rebels, decided in August 1821 to surrender as they no longer endure the prevelant hunger and disease. Nevertheless, the rebels slaughtered them all barbarously. These events were hailed in Western Europe as "a victory of liberalism and Christianity".27 A few days later the same fate befell the Muslims of Navarino. Between 2,000 and 3,000 Muslim residents were cruelly massacred. Turkish women were stripped and searched for valuables. Naked women were plunged into the sea and were shot in the water: children were thrown in to drown and babies were taken from their mothers and beaten against rocks.12,15,21,24 Muslim girls and boys, who were kept alive, half naked and in fear, were offered for sale as prostitutes. Some of them lost their minds and roamed round the ruins.

Meanwhile, some Greeks in Navarino were proudly relating the terrible massacres that had taken place there. One of them boasted that he had killed eighteen Turks; another one was relating how he had stabbed to death nine women and children in their beds.6 These merciless killers were proudly showing to the European volunteers, who had come to help the Hellenic cause, the corpses of the Muslim women whom they had raped, carved up and then thrown over the fortifications some time earlier.

But these terrible scenes did not impress the volunteers. On the contrary, they schocked and disgusted them. A German volunteer, Franz Lieber, describes how the volunteers felt hatred and disgust towards the Greek rebels, who were calling upon them to rape women after they themselves had already sexually assaulted them.18

Tripolitsa Massacre

[Strahd]

GREEK BARBARISM



Part 1 - Greek Atrocities and Massacres of Turks During the Greek Rebellion, 1821-1822



How the Greek Rebellion Began

When Sultan Mahmut II, who was a patient and determined ruler, tried to strengthened the weakening Ottoman Empire with reform, he fell out with Ali Pasha of Tepedelen, the governor of Jannina. When the governor revolted against the Sultan in 1820, his action inspired the Greek revolutionaries to rise up to benefit from the rift among the Turkish rulers.9,24 The Greeks began their rebellion in the Peloponnese on 6 April 1821 (by the Gregorian calendar-25 March by the Julian calendar) with the slogan: "Not a Turk shall remain in the Morea", which inspired indiscriminate and murderous action against all Muslims.16 Upon hearing the news of the rebellion, some Greeks in the cities began killing their Turkish neighbours and setting fire to their property.13, According to the British writer William St. Clair, "The savage passion for revenge soon degenerated into a frenzied delight in killing and horror for their own sakes". Another British writer, David Howarth, observes that the Greeks did not need any reason for these murders, "Once they had started…they killed because a mad blood-lust had come upon them all, and everyone was killing".15,24

Massacres of the Turks

It is estimated that more than 50,000 Muslims , including women and children, lived in the Peloponnese in March 1821. A month later, when the Greeks were celebrating Easter, there was hardly anyone left. The few who managed to escape to fortified cities were suffering from starvation. Everywhere the unburied bodies of murdered Turks were rotting. According to William St. Clair:

"The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821, unmourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world…Upwards of 20,000 Turkish men, women and children were murdered by their Greek neighbours in a few weeks of slaughter. They were killed deliberately, without qualm and scruple…Turkish families living in single farms or small isolated communities were summarily put to death, and their homes burnt down over their corpses. Others, when the disturbances began, abondened home to seek the security of the nearest town, but the defenceless streams of refugees were overwhelmed by bands of armed Greeks. In the smaller towns, the Turkish communities barricaded their houses and attempted to defend themselves as best as they could, but few survived. In some places, they were driven by hunger to surrender to their attackers on receiving promises of security, but these were seldom honoured. The men were killed at once, and the women and children divided out as slaves usually to be killed in their turn later. All over the Pelopennese roamed mobs of Greeks armed with clubs, scythes, and a few firearms, killing, plundering and burning. They were often led by Christian priests, who exhorted them to greater efforts in their holy work".24

According to Steven Runciman, author of a history of the Greek Orthodox Church, "The great fathers of the Church, such as Basil, would have been horrified by the gallant[!] Pelopennesian bishops who raised the standard of revolt in 1821".23 This was not a war of Greek independence or liberation, but a war of extermination against the Turks and other Muslims, and the main instigators of it were the Greek Orthodox Christian clerics.

In 1861, the historian George Finlay wrote:

"In the month of April 1821, a Muslim population amounting to upwards of 20,000 souls, was living, dispersed in Greece, employed in agriculture. Before two months had elapsed, the greater part was slain-men, women and children were murdered without mercy or remorse…The crime was a nation’s crime, and whatever perturbations it may produce must be in a nation’s conscience, as the deeds by which it can be expiated must be the acts of a nation."12

According to the historian C.M. Woodhouse, the entire Turkish population of cities and towns were collected and marched out to convenient places in the countryside where they were slaughtered.30 In Greek Orthodox Romania also, the leader of the Greek rebellion, Alexander Ypsilanti, and his supporters took the towns of Galatz and Yassy. The Turks were surprised and massacred in cold blood.10,22

Turks Burnt Alive

In April 1821, the Greek residents of the islands of Hydra, Spetsa and Psara joined the rebels. They attacked ships carrying the Ottoman flag, capturing crew members and killing them or throwing them into the sea. They also captured and killed many Muslim pilgrims on their way to Mecca. According to British writers such as St. Clair, Howarth and William Miller, the Greek rebels captured 57 crew members of a Turkish vessel, took them to the island of Hydra amidst shrieks of triumph and there, on the coast, they roasted them alive on a fire.15,21,24

Many Greeks in Thessaly, Macedonia and Halkidiki, too, joined the rebels and began to attack the Turks without mercy. The Greek peasants who remorselessly killed their Turkish neighbours saw the rebellion as a war of religious extermination, and for the most part, the bishops and priest who led them, shared this view.24

Massacres of Monemvasia and Navarino

The Muslims of the small town of Monemvasia, besieged by the Greek rebels, decided in August 1821 to surrender as they no longer endure the prevelant hunger and disease. Nevertheless, the rebels slaughtered them all barbarously. These events were hailed in Western Europe as "a victory of liberalism and Christianity".27 A few days later the same fate befell the Muslims of Navarino. Between 2,000 and 3,000 Muslim residents were cruelly massacred. Turkish women were stripped and searched for valuables. Naked women were plunged into the sea and were shot in the water: children were thrown in to drown and babies were taken from their mothers and beaten against rocks.12,15,21,24 Muslim girls and boys, who were kept alive, half naked and in fear, were offered for sale as prostitutes. Some of them lost their minds and roamed round the ruins.

Meanwhile, some Greeks in Navarino were proudly relating the terrible massacres that had taken place there. One of them boasted that he had killed eighteen Turks; another one was relating how he had stabbed to death nine women and children in their beds.6 These merciless killers were proudly showing to the European volunteers, who had come to help the Hellenic cause, the corpses of the Muslim women whom they had raped, carved up and then thrown over the fortifications some time earlier.

But these terrible scenes did not impress the volunteers. On the contrary, they schocked and disgusted them. A German volunteer, Franz Lieber, describes how the volunteers felt hatred and disgust towards the Greek rebels, who were calling upon them to rape women after they themselves had already sexually assaulted them.18

Tripolitsa Massacre

Payback is a bitch isn't it?

When you hold someone's freedom for 400 years and overrule his land one day he comes back and what you get is usually the same taste. This will happen to Cyprus as well. But sure in less than 400 years. So be really afraid...

[alexISS]

Forget about the past
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4357158.stm

It (the survey) questioned 430 people, most of them men. When asked the appropriate punishment for a woman who has committed adultery, 37% replied she should be killed.
Twenty-five percent said that she deserved divorce, and 21% that her nose or ears should be cut off.


What's not to like in this? Why on earth should europe NOT want Turkey in the EU?

[MR-from-NG]

Payback is a bitch isn't it?

When you hold someone's freedom for 400 years and overrule his land one day he comes back and what you get is usually the same taste. This will happen to Cyprus as well. But sure in less than 400 years. So be really afraid...

You are a dangerous race, full of hate. The fact that you are now supposed to be civilised Europeans mean nothing to you. So in essence we are afraid for our lives.

As you clearly state above we can all expect to be attacked and killed one day soon, just like in 63 and 74.

Why then would I want to Turkish military to leave and unite with you terrorists and compromise my safety.

Long live the Turkey. Long live the Turkish army. Long live the TRNC.

[Sotos]

You are a dangerous race, full of hate.

You are full of hate. That is why you occupy our country Maybe we should love you for this?