Cyprus-Forum.com

[metecyp]

- GC will have to compromise on absolute right to return for all, as TC will have to compromise on absolute right to self determination.

- GC will have the same voting rights as TC within their respective states (onr person one vote). At the federal level GC will have four times as much voting power as TC on some issues and equal voting power as TC on other issues.

- TC will need more proportional % of aid to Cyprus until there is parity between the ecomonic levels of the two states that make up a federal Cyprus.

Erol, you summarized it very well but I don't know how some of our GC friends will interpret it since they tend to see things black and white.

When you give back part of what you stole is not a compromise.
When you give up part of the self determination right that you claim you have but actually you don't, is not a compromise.

So what you want is that we return back to 1960, all refugees return back, the RoC is restored and everything. This will not be considered a compromise according to you and on top of that, you want TCs to give up some things such as the priviliges provided in 1960. So GCs got rid of the RoC in 1963, they organized the coup in 1974, but you want TCs to pay for those mistakes by giving up more? Anything else you would like to add?

[Piratis]

I never asked for TCs to give up anything from the 1960 agreements. I said that those agreements were very favorable toward the TCs, I didn't say that we have to change them.

What you can not do is to pick some parts of those agreements and get rid of other parts.

So the GCs acted wrong for about a decade, the TCs acted wrong for about 3 decades. If we were going to put everything into a scale to see who did more harm in order to punish them some more, then the ones who would have to be punished would be the TCs. But I am not asking for any punishments (unlike you). I just ask to return to legality, in which case you get all your super privileges.

[metecyp]

I just ask to return to legality, in which case you get all your super privileges.

Ok, you ask to return to legality, but you completely ignore what happened in the last 30 years. Legality without reality means nothing. TCs know that very well because the structure in the south has supposedly been legal but we all know that it's nothing but what the TCs agreed in 1960.

Whether legal or not, there's a structure in the north. We can work together with GCs and agree on how we can bring legality to the north and south in the light of realities. If you're not ready to consider 1/3 of TCs being refugees, settlers leaving the island, giving up on the idea of seperate state, agreeing on living with GCs in the Turkish constituent state as compromises, I don't think that we'll ever agree on anything.

[Piratis]

Realities change. Would you like if lets say in 50 years we come to you and say :"Hello, its time to adjust to the new realities".

Personally, I want stability, I want something as much fair as possible that will be able to last. Not something that was forced to be accepted because of the "realities". Something like that will not last for long.

[boulio]

metecyp wrote;
If you're not ready to consider 1/3 of TCs being refugees, settlers leaving the island, giving up on the idea of seperate state, agreeing on living with GCs in the Turkish constituent state as compromises, I don't think that we'll ever agree on anything.

not much of comprimes:

1)the 1/3 are refugees because there living on property that dosent belong to them
2)the settlers leaving,against about 4 international documents to begin with.you cannot settle land that you have taken by force,i believe against the geneva convetion and un charter
3)you are a community and now you will be raised to a state within a fedreal structure living with people that belong in that state more then yourselves.you may not like it but greeks cypriots were there before turks so dont have such a narrow mindness.

you havent comprimesed anything just semi-fixed yours wrongs of the last 30 years.

[metecyp]

Realities change. Would you like if lets say in 50 years we come to you and say :"Hello, its time to adjust to the new realities".

Yes, reality changes but you cannot build a solution by ignoring the current realities either. I'm not saying just accept things as they are now. If I did, I would be asking you to accept the TRNC and that's it. I'm asking you to consider legality and reality while making up your mind because you have to consider what's real and what's legal and fair at the same time.

you havent comprimesed anything just semi-fixed yours wrongs of the last 30 years.

I'll repeat again. Whether legal or not, there's a structure in the north and it can stay like it's now for another 50 years. It might not be legal or fair but this is the reality. We can work together to close the gap between the reality and legality by compromising from the reality towards legality but it's not going to help if you'll keep insisting that this is not a compromise.

[Piratis]

How about taking into consideration the realities to create a transitional period of lets say 10-20 years. I believe taking the realities of today to sign a contract that legally we will be supposed to honor forever is very unfair.

[metecyp]

How about taking into consideration the realities to create a transitional period of lets say 10-20 years. I believe taking the realities of today to sign a contract that legally we will be supposed to honor forever is very unfair.

Yet another broad statement. Transitional period for what? You have to be more specific.

[Piratis]

Transitional periot for everything that need to be in a specific way because of the "realities". I am talking in a braod way because I reply to your broad statments about realties

For example if thing X should be in this way because it is fair and good and is what every democratic country should have, then X is part of the final solution.
If thing Y is not the ideal, but because of todays realities we can not have an agreement without Y, then Y is part of the transitional period and not part of the final solution.

[erolz]

When you give up part of the self determination right that you claim you have but actually you don't, is not a compromise.

It is like a thief that steals half the belongings of somebody and claims that he owns the other half also, and then he "compromises" by giving up some of what never belonged to him in the first place. Thats not a compromise.

And you saying that TC have no rights as a people because we are not a people, you are like a thief who steals my car and then says he did not steal my car because I never had a car in the first place.

There can be no acceptable compromise between your rights and ours if you continue to insist that we don not have any rights (as a people). There would have been no cyprus problem and no military action by Turkey in Cyprus if you had not denied our rights as a people totaly onw way or another since the very inception of an independent Cyprus.
Your insistance that we are not a people in 1960 was a major factor in creating the Cyprus problem in the first place (and all the subsequent suffering of oridinary Cypriots that followed).
Your insistance that we are not a people today is the major block on reaching a compromise that is fair and balanced and just and workable.

While you continue to deny our rights (by denying we are a people) there can be no true peace in Cyprus.