Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

hm.. the us didnt organize the whole thing and they had nothing to win.. ok. so kissinger woke up one day with nothing to do and was like.. hell, lets give the turks guns and tell them to invade cyprus.

just to make things clear.
ofcource the USA organised coups all over the world, and ofcource they dont give a shit about innocent people.

in the case of cyprus, there is not enough evidence that suggests that the US organised the whole thing.
there is also no evidence that suggests that the US has or had anything to win from the invasion.

what there is evidence of is that they had information about it..... the reaction of state department was: is really ioanides such a moron, that he expects that a coup will not cause a turkish reaction ? unfortunately the stupidity of ioannides is beyond my understanding.

the US after shit hit the fun, had only one objective : to avoid war between greece and turkey.
it made no difference for them, if cyprus united with greece, or turkey invaded.
when they had interests that turkey should not invade cyprus, they prevented it.
in 74 things changed, since the Soviet Union also didnot give a shit about cyprus anymore.

the only way one can blame the US, is by taking an "ethical path". that they as a super power had a "moral duty to prevent the coup and the coming invasion".

if one sees Iraq and still expects "moralities" .....

...............
read also :
United States Policy towards Cyprus, 1954–1974: Removing the Greek-Turkish Bone of Contention. By Claude Nicolet. (Mannheim: Bibliopolis, 2001. 483 pp. € 42.90, ISBN 3-933925-20-7.)

it seriously questions numerous myths that exist in cyprus about the american foreign policy.......

Does the fact that Makarios and Greece were seeking assistance from Russia have anything to do with it>>>>>

[Jerry]

just to make things clear.
ofcource the USA organised coups all over the world, and ofcource they dont give a shit about innocent people.

in the case of cyprus, there is not enough evidence that suggests that the US organised the whole thing.
there is also no evidence that suggests that the US has or had anything to win from the invasion.

what there is evidence of is that they had information about it..... the reaction of state department was: is really ioanides such a moron, that he expects that a coup will not cause a turkish reaction ? unfortunately the stupidity of ioannides is beyond my understanding.

the US after shit hit the fun, had only one objective : to avoid war between greece and turkey.
it made no difference for them, if cyprus united with greece, or turkey invaded.
when they had interests that turkey should not invade cyprus, they prevented it.
in 74 things changed, since the Soviet Union also didnot give a shit about cyprus anymore.

the only way one can blame the US, is by taking an "ethical path". that they as a super power had a "moral duty to prevent the coup and the coming invasion".

if one sees Iraq and still expects "moralities" .....

...............
read also :
United States Policy towards Cyprus, 1954–1974: Removing the Greek-Turkish Bone of Contention. By Claude Nicolet. (Mannheim: Bibliopolis, 2001. 483 pp. € 42.90, ISBN 3-933925-20-7.)

it seriously questions numerous myths that exist in cyprus about the american foreign policy.......

Or you could read "The Trial of Henry Kissinger" by Christopher Hitchens.

The US attitude towards Cyprus was best expressed by LBJ "Cyprus is a flea"

[observer]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

[bigOz]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

I agree fully with the above, but as someone who was hotly involved with the left wing student movements at the time (in Europe) and closely following world politics of the time I hasten to add the following.

At the time, junta in Greece was part of NATO protecting US and non-communist Europe interests. Junta had been there long before Watergate and so were the political developments in Cyprus. They shifted from EOKA supporting, towards a more socialist view (including Cyprus for Cypriots idea) supported by AKEL and Makarios in a progressively increasing manner from 1969 to 1974.

The cold war was at its peak and Cypriot leaders started to flirt aggressively with USSR. Military aid, economic relationships, diplomatic visits and expressions of good will were always the main attraction. This was coming from an island, where two British (NATO) sovereign bases were stationed, complete with their air-force, radar cover / listening devices and mobile ground forces at the ready claiming superiority in the area.

Add to this, at the time, Israel and Egypt were used by USA and USSR in testing their fighter aircraft, anti aircraft missiles, tanks and artillery developed over the past decade but never used in real combat situations. The Yom Kippur war when Egypt and Syria (supported by USSR) jointly attacked Israel on October 6, 1973 had only ended few months earlier. USSR was also desperate to have a satellite in the warm waters of the Med - once allowed through the Bosphorus, their submarines and warships were without supplies and fuel until they returned home again.

Even more worrying to the political developments on the island was the increasing attacks on British Bases by various Cypriot organisations, who wanted them out of the island.

Lets add up the above for the time segment we are discussing:

- Ongoing power struggle in world domination between USSR and USA.
- USSR desperate for a satellite in warm waters.
- An area of utmost strategic importance to current conflicts in Middle East
- Developing relationships with the USSR, the main NATO enemy.
- Fighting the NATO forces on island to get out.

Cyprus was a huge aircraft and troop carrier for any party involved in the power struggle in the Middle East! An area that provided a great advantage to any controlling power in terms of oil and economic advantage over the other one.

Now, put yourself in USA and NATO position at time when military coups were natural occurrences when it came to protecting NATO and West's interests, and tell me honestly if - Watergate or not - toppling of such a government and Makarios would not be a priority? You can bet your arse it was. And who better to do it than the military junta in Greece who already had forces on the island to facilitate such a move. So EOKA will try to ethnically cleanse the island of its TC inhabitants in the process, but who gives a fuck about that when considering the scale of other important things on the agenda?

USA and NATO (especially British) were dead against Turkey invading the island. On at least two other occasions in the past Turkey huffed and puffed but could never invade, because her forces belonged to NATO command and were effectively stopped in their tracks. Unlucky for USA and the Greek junta, the current leader in Turkey at the time was Bulent Ecevit - a nationalist socialist who despised US politics. The rest is history.

But at the end of the day it was a win - win situation for the NATO alliance and the West, because either way, whether it was a Greek or Turkish military that took over the control, the island ended up sound and safe as far as any danger of domination by the USSR was concerned.

That my friends is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

[observer]

USA and NATO (especially British) were dead against Turkey invading the island. On at least two other occasions in the past Turkey huffed and puffed but could never invade, because her forces belonged to NATO command and were effectively stopped in their tracks.

OK, I think we've agreed that US was just too preoccupied to give a toss about Cyprus and its problems. Now for the British.

In 1974 Britain was just crawling out of one of its worse post-war economic crisises. Also, the British Army was fully occupied in Northern Ireland, and London was being bombed by the IRA.

8 June 1974. Michael Gaughen, IRA hunger striker died in London.
17 June 1974. IRA bomb explodes in Westminster Hall, London.
17 July 1974. IRA Bomb explodes in Tower of London.

I think the British government were too preoccupied to give a toss about Cyprus too, and as bigOz indicates, coups were almost a monthly occurance in the mid-70s.

Once again, it seems to me that the Greek government of the time saw this as an ideal time to invade Cyprus and did so, not expecting Turkey to intervene.

[DT.]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

I agree fully with the above, but as someone who was hotly involved with the left wing student movements at the time (in Europe) and closely following world politics of the time I hasten to add the following.

At the time, junta in Greece was part of NATO protecting US and non-communist Europe interests. Junta had been there long before Watergate and so were the political developments in Cyprus. They shifted from EOKA supporting, towards a more socialist view (including Cyprus for Cypriots idea) supported by AKEL and Makarios in a progressively increasing manner from 1969 to 1974.

The cold war was at its peak and Cypriot leaders started to flirt aggressively with USSR. Military aid, economic relationships, diplomatic visits and expressions of good will were always the main attraction. This was coming from an island, where two British (NATO) sovereign bases were stationed, complete with their air-force, radar cover / listening devices and mobile ground forces at the ready claiming superiority in the area.

Add to this, at the time, Israel and Egypt were used by USA and USSR in testing their fighter aircraft, anti aircraft missiles, tanks and artillery developed over the past decade but never used in real combat situations. The Yom Kippur war when Egypt and Syria (supported by USSR) jointly attacked Israel on October 6, 1973 had only ended few months earlier. USSR was also desperate to have a satellite in the warm waters of the Med - once allowed through the Bosphorus, their submarines and warships were without supplies and fuel until they returned home again.

Even more worrying to the political developments on the island was the increasing attacks on British Bases by various Cypriot organisations, who wanted them out of the island.

Lets add up the above for the time segment we are discussing:

- Ongoing power struggle in world domination between USSR and USA.
- USSR desperate for a satellite in warm waters.
- An area of utmost strategic importance to current conflicts in Middle East
- Developing relationships with the USSR, the main NATO enemy.
- Fighting the NATO forces on island to get out.

Cyprus was a huge aircraft and troop carrier for any party involved in the power struggle in the Middle East! An area that provided a great advantage to any controlling power in terms of oil and economic advantage over the other one.

Now, put yourself in USA and NATO position at time when military coups were natural occurrences when it came to protecting NATO and West's interests, and tell me honestly if - Watergate or not - toppling of such a government and Makarios would not be a priority? You can bet your arse it was. And who better to do it than the military junta in Greece who already had forces on the island to facilitate such a move. So EOKA will try to ethnically cleanse the island of its TC inhabitants in the process, but who gives a fuck about that when considering the scale of other important things on the agenda?

USA and NATO (especially British) were dead against Turkey invading the island. On at least two other occasions in the past Turkey huffed and puffed but could never invade, because her forces belonged to NATO command and were effectively stopped in their tracks. Unlucky for USA and the Greek junta, the current leader in Turkey at the time was Bulent Ecevit - a nationalist socialist who despised US politics. The rest is history.

But at the end of the day it was a win - win situation for the NATO alliance and the West, because either way, whether it was a Greek or Turkish military that took over the control, the island ended up sound and safe as far as any danger of domination by the USSR was concerned.

That my friends is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

the current leader in Turkey at the time was Bulent Ecevit - a nationalist socialist who despised US politics.

Hey Big Oz wasn't Ecevit one of Kissingers students in Harvard?

[bigOz]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

I agree fully with the above, but as someone who was hotly involved with the left wing student movements at the time (in Europe) and closely following world politics of the time I hasten to add the following.

At the time, junta in Greece was part of NATO protecting US and non-communist Europe interests. Junta had been there long before Watergate and so were the political developments in Cyprus. They shifted from EOKA supporting, towards a more socialist view (including Cyprus for Cypriots idea) supported by AKEL and Makarios in a progressively increasing manner from 1969 to 1974.

The cold war was at its peak and Cypriot leaders started to flirt aggressively with USSR. Military aid, economic relationships, diplomatic visits and expressions of good will were always the main attraction. This was coming from an island, where two British (NATO) sovereign bases were stationed, complete with their air-force, radar cover / listening devices and mobile ground forces at the ready claiming superiority in the area.

Add to this, at the time, Israel and Egypt were used by USA and USSR in testing their fighter aircraft, anti aircraft missiles, tanks and artillery developed over the past decade but never used in real combat situations. The Yom Kippur war when Egypt and Syria (supported by USSR) jointly attacked Israel on October 6, 1973 had only ended few months earlier. USSR was also desperate to have a satellite in the warm waters of the Med - once allowed through the Bosphorus, their submarines and warships were without supplies and fuel until they returned home again.

Even more worrying to the political developments on the island was the increasing attacks on British Bases by various Cypriot organisations, who wanted them out of the island.

Lets add up the above for the time segment we are discussing:

- Ongoing power struggle in world domination between USSR and USA.
- USSR desperate for a satellite in warm waters.
- An area of utmost strategic importance to current conflicts in Middle East
- Developing relationships with the USSR, the main NATO enemy.
- Fighting the NATO forces on island to get out.

Cyprus was a huge aircraft and troop carrier for any party involved in the power struggle in the Middle East! An area that provided a great advantage to any controlling power in terms of oil and economic advantage over the other one.

Now, put yourself in USA and NATO position at time when military coups were natural occurrences when it came to protecting NATO and West's interests, and tell me honestly if - Watergate or not - toppling of such a government and Makarios would not be a priority? You can bet your arse it was. And who better to do it than the military junta in Greece who already had forces on the island to facilitate such a move. So EOKA will try to ethnically cleanse the island of its TC inhabitants in the process, but who gives a fuck about that when considering the scale of other important things on the agenda?

USA and NATO (especially British) were dead against Turkey invading the island. On at least two other occasions in the past Turkey huffed and puffed but could never invade, because her forces belonged to NATO command and were effectively stopped in their tracks. Unlucky for USA and the Greek junta, the current leader in Turkey at the time was Bulent Ecevit - a nationalist socialist who despised US politics. The rest is history.

But at the end of the day it was a win - win situation for the NATO alliance and the West, because either way, whether it was a Greek or Turkish military that took over the control, the island ended up sound and safe as far as any danger of domination by the USSR was concerned.

That my friends is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth...

the current leader in Turkey at the time was Bulent Ecevit - a nationalist socialist who despised US politics.

Hey Big Oz wasn't Ecevit one of Kissingers students in Harvard?

Sure! But so was Usama Bin Laden!

[cypezokyli]

what greatly shifted the balance were the improved relations between turkey and the USSR.
the reason that the US prevented a turkish invasion twice, was the the soviet union considered that unacceptable, and said that it was willing to protect the island.... the reasons are obvious, as the soviets never wanted that cyprus would enter NATO.


inonu later on improved the relations with USSR and that shifted the balance.
besides the Soviets had no problem, if two NATO members started fighting each other.... it suited them just fine....

kissinger succesfully prevented war between greece and turkey , which was his aim. what happened to cyprus, was for him completely uninteresting.....especially as observer said, in the middle of the watergate....

[pantheman]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

Typical talk of a total tosser, hey man the americans were fucking each other over at the time, so screwing over cyprus at the same time was dead easy for them. As if you expect us to beleive the the US stops its foreign policy during internal issues. Utter crap.

The cyprus problem was designed by the USA, prepared by the british and executed by the Turks. Period. Which ever way you cut it we got screwed on the actions essentially of those 3 nations above. I'm not saying the GCs/TCs/Greeks were angels , they were manupulated to get the US and the british what they wanted. Cyprus.

My answer is why don't they all just fuck off and leave cyprus for the cypriots.

I wonder what other big building the US is gonna blow up as an excuse to go to Iran? Watch this space won't be too long now, and if Miltiades is anything to go by it will be sooner rather than later!

[bigOz]

As is too often the case, contributors have their noses so close to the Cyprus problem that they fail to see what is going on in the rest of the world.

1974 was the year of Watergate. On July 13 the Senate Watergate Committee published its final report after weeks and months of speculation. On July 19 the US Supreme Court ordered the surrender of the Watergate tapes. Between July 27/30 the Articles of Impeachment against Nixon were adopted by the US House of Representatives. On 5 August Nixon resigned.

Do you seriously think that with all this going on, anyone in the American Administration had a thought to spare about Cyprus?

If there is any conspiracy it is more likely that the Greek junta and their GC supporters (and there were many more then than like to admit it now) chose this moment believing that the US would not interfere because it was too preoccupied with its own problems and they could get away with their invasion of Cyprus.

Typical talk of a total tosser, hey man the americans were fucking each other over at the time, so screwing over cyprus at the same time was dead easy for them. As if you expect us to beleive the the US stops its foreign policy during internal issues. Utter crap.

The cyprus problem was designed by the USA, prepared by the british and executed by the Turks. Period. Which ever way you cut it we got screwed on the actions essentially of those 3 nations above. I'm not saying the GCs/TCs/Greeks were angels , they were manupulated to get the US and the british what they wanted. Cyprus.

My answer is why don't they all just fuck off and leave cyprus for the cypriots.

I wonder what other big building the US is gonna blow up as an excuse to go to Iran? Watch this space won't be too long now, and if Miltiades is anything to go by it will be sooner rather than later!

USA might have been the designer of the events - true; but why are you persisting in leaving the biggest actors of the execution ie: Greece and the Greek Junta???

If the original plan favoured an invasion rather than a quiet coup by the Greek military, then why did the British politicians strongly and openly attacked Turkey's presence on the island? Were you around at the time?

I was, and I was glued to daily news every day! This is exactly what the prime minister of UK, James Callaghan at the time said on TV:
"Today Cyprus is a prisoner of the Turkish Army. Tomorrow Turkish Army will be the prisoner of Cyprus".
Hardly the statement of someone who may have conspired with USA for Turkey's invasion!

Furthermore, why did Turkey have to suffer the economic and military embargo by the USA for a very long time during and after the invasion?