The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Intell officers confirm Kissinger role in Turkish invasion

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby bigOz » Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:49 pm

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:
Snake! You are nothing but an ignorant thug!


Says the moron who goes around threatning Greek Cypriots with physical abuse over an internet forum! hahahahaha

Why don't you go and stick your head into the sewage of the hole that brought you into this world, and shut the fuck up before a fat cock from this "fat bastard" is shoved in your filthy mouth and shuts you up!


Why do you keep wanting to shove your cock in my mouth!? I aint gay and youve threatened this before. Cant you control your brown-loved fantasies??? This is the wrong website for that Mr chi-chi man. Before you do go to www.ibitepillows.com, why dont you try answering my previous question.

What question you rat? All I see is foul language coming out of your "pussy" mouth. Very funny about me having fantasies when you are the one quoting sites as reference (which I have not even bothered to visit). In fact I am not interested in answering any questions of yours or entering any debates on subjects you clearly have no idea about! Just go back to your boyfriend Jerry and have a "cat-fight" with him instead!

As for you Jerry the village idiot - you know very well that what you quoted was in response to you calling me "little man"! Where the fuck were you during human evolution that you remained so retarded as such! Answering a flawed accusation is defined bragging? Fucking hell man, give me a break will you?

:roll:
User avatar
bigOz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:19 am
Location: Girne - Cyprus

Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:46 pm

What question you rat? All I see is foul language coming out of your "pussy" mouth. Very funny about me having fantasies when you are the one quoting sites as reference (which I have not even bothered to visit). In fact I am not interested in answering any questions of yours or entering any debates on subjects you clearly have no idea about! Just go back to your boyfriend Jerry and have a "cat-fight" with him instead!

As for you Jerry the village idiot - you know very well that what you quoted was in response to you calling me "little man"! Where the fuck were you during human evolution that you remained so retarded as such! Answering a flawed accusation is defined bragging? Fucking hell man, give me a break will you?


All youve done is side stepped my question. No matter what you say - youve just proven that you want to be ignorant with regards to the Cyprus issue.
the_snake_and_the_crane
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 pm

Postby Viewpoint » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:39 pm

Kifeas wrote:bigOz, that you are the biggest idiot currently in this forum, it is a fact everybody acknowledges, including most TCs! It is no use to waste my time in answering back to your idiotic posts, since none of them has any logical cohesion! You are a fanatic fool that came here and initially started bragging about his height, that he is a pilot and all the usual childish rubbish that only a man full of inferiority complexes would have done, and even the propaganda you thought you could have passed around in here, in the end made you the laughing stock of the forum! The clown of the forum so to say! Have a nice weekend my clown, and hopefully we will be laughing again at you as from Monday!

Anyone with brains will read what I have posted and what you and some others have had, and will reach their own conclusions on the illegality of the Turkish invasion!


Kifeas you are talking crap and hitting below the belt, I am a TC and I do not agree with what you say. bigOz talks a lot of sense its people like you that do not want to hear what he has to say as he does not fit in with your despot views so you attack him personally rather than his arguements.
User avatar
Viewpoint
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 25214
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: Nicosia/Lefkosa

Postby Svetlana » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:57 am

Please can we stick to the topic and avoid comments about fellow posters.

Lana
User avatar
Svetlana
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 3094
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Paphos

Postby denizaksulu » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:07 pm

The Snake atc says : "Once again - do you REALLY believe that the TMT had no role in forcing or suggesting that Turkish Cypriots, whether many or few, in leaving there homes.".

One thing that I know of was that small mixed villages with a very miniscule number of families were recommended to leave to more secure areas (larger TC villages) which were easier to defend against possible GC attacks. The fear was there and no further time was wasted. This was done mainly by the United Nations soldiers. They were so thin on the ground and found it difficult to protect such a largely dispersed group of TCs. The suggestion might also have come from relatives living in larger villages. So what. The danger was there.

Further, Snake atc; I suspect that you may be of a younger age and not be aware of things hapenning in the 1963 era. If you are not that young as I am suggesting, then you are turning a blind eye to the truth. You are becomming a victim of your own propaganda. Thats a possibility.
Regards
DA
User avatar
denizaksulu
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 36077
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 11:04 am

Postby the_snake_and_the_crane » Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:48 am

On the contrary, ive read about 1963, as well as the other important dates in Cyprus' history streching back thousands of years and not just to 1960. I know the Greek Cypriot side wasnt innocent but I cant stand people lieing or manipulating the truth in order to support the illegal Turkish invasion and prevent Greek Cypriots or basic innocent people from exercising their human rights. AND LETS GET ONE THING STRAIGHT! - Being allowed to live in your own home or practice your own religion IS a human right. Petty things such as a being allowed to do business under a particular banner or having your own national football team is NOT a human right!!

Its a FACT that members of the TMT killed well known or outspoken Turkish 'leftists' such as union-leaders etc, who opposed segregation / taksim, in order to push through there community's migration to the north. If certain members of the Turkish Cypriot community on this website want to close their eyes to that fact then thats their own problem - but when they start telling lies to support the regime stopping MY family from their own human rights....then its MY problem too.

Its also no coincidense that many Turkish Cypriots dont talk about the Greek Cypriots who were forced from there homes before 1974 by their own community, like in Louroucina...or the Armenian Cypriots in the Armenian quarter of Nicosia...also forced out by the Turkish Cypriots.

Regards
the_snake_and_the_crane
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:14 pm

Postby bigOz » Wed Jul 11, 2007 12:26 pm

the_snake_and_the_crane wrote:Its also no coincidense that many Turkish Cypriots dont talk about the Greek Cypriots who were forced from there homes before 1974 by their own community, like in Louroucina...or the Armenian Cypriots in the Armenian quarter of Nicosia...also forced out by the Turkish Cypriots.

Regards

Can you prove to us that Armenians were forced out of Nicosia by TCs , and also GCs were forced out of Louricina by the TCs - beforfe 1974?

The Armenians had always been traditional Greek supporters. After GCs started attacking TCs during 63-64 troubles, they ran away as a matter of choice for two main reasons:

- Convinced that the GCs would eventually destroy and kill everyone within the TC enclave of Nicosia, they ran to avoid dying in the crossfire.

- Having a history of conflict and hatred for Turks, and alliance with Greeks, they knew it would be dangerous for them to stay in a Turkish dominated enclave with high emotions under current circumstances.

I would like to see where you read TCs forced them out of their homes!
User avatar
bigOz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1225
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:19 am
Location: Girne - Cyprus

Postby GreekForumer » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:23 am

GreekForumer wrote:The "Official" US-Cyprus foreign relations history of the 1974 period, as written by the State Department, has been completed for some time now. Unfortunately, for Cyprus-forumers and others, these volumes are still classified.

Watch this space -----> Office of the Historian


The Official US history has been released!!!


Office of the Historian, Bureau of Public Affairs Release of Foreign Relations, Volume XXX, Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, 1973–1976

The Department of State released today Foreign Relations of the United States, 1969–1976, Volume XXX, Greece, Cyprus, Turkey, 1973–1976. This volume includes documentation that illuminates the critical connections between regional concerns and bilateral issues, and provides a fascinating window into the ways in which the Nixon and Ford administrations managed a foreign crisis in the midst of a U.S. domestic one. The volume provides documentation on, among other things, the restoration of democracy in Greece, the problem of Turkish opium, the potential conflict between Greece and Turkey over oil exploration rights in the Aegean Sea, and U.S. policymakers’ efforts to develop a solution to the problem caused by the increasing tensions in the region. Taken as a whole, this volume highlights a significant shift in U.S. policymakers’ goals toward the region and Secretary of State Henry Kissinger’s unique role in U.S. foreign policy.

In mid-July 1974, the Nixon administration--then in the midst of the Watergate scandal--learned that Turkey had invaded the eastern portion of Cyprus to protect Turkish Cypriots. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger tried to facilitate a settlement of the crisis, conducting “shuttle diplomacy” between Athens, Ankara, Nicosia, and elsewhere. With the resignation of President Nixon on August 9, the crisis became the responsibility of President Gerald Ford. Even with Ford’s strong contacts in Congress, the new administration found itself at odds with the legislative branch, which had cut off U.S. arms to Turkey. Ford and Kissinger believed that such a prohibition limited their diplomatic options and their ability to influence the situation, and they complained about the influence of Greek-Americans in Congress. Kissinger pursued a negotiated settlement to end the partition of Cyprus at every opportunity, including the UN General Assembly, CENTO, and the Helsinki Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe; however, a solution to this problem eluded him. The documentation indicates a significant shift in U.S. policy toward the region over the course of this crisis. Whereas previous policy had focused on trying to expedite a solution to the ongoing conflict between the two communities on Cyprus by encouraging internal and international discussion, this threat to NATO’s southern flank shifted the primary focus of U.S. policymakers away from encouraging discourse and towards ensuring that Greece and Turkey--two key NATO allies--did not come to blows over Cyprus.

In addition to the two U.S. administrations’ efforts to develop a solution to the problems caused by the situation in Cyprus, the documents in this volume provide a unique insight into how the Executive Branch operated during the Watergate scandal. Secretary of State Kissinger updated in person and by telephone an increasingly distracted President Nixon, who was vacationing in San Clemente during the July 1974 crisis. Transcripts of Kissinger’s telephone conversations thus provide a valuable addition to the documentary record, both of the crisis and of Kissinger’s relationship with President Nixon. As Nixon became increasingly entangled with Watergate and faced possible impeachment, he granted Kissinger considerable authority to manage the crisis. When Nixon resigned in August 1974, Kissinger made a virtually seamless transition to working with President Ford, who continued to let him take the lead in attempting to resolve the Cyprus crisis.

The volume and this press release are available on the Office of the Historian website at http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/nixon/xxx. Copies of the volume will be available for purchase from the U.S. Government Printing Office online at http://bookstore.gpo.gov (GPO S/N 044–000–02600–7; ISBN 978–0–16–079017–1). For further information contact Edward Keefer, General Editor of the Foreign Relations series, at (202) 663–1131 or by e-mail to [email protected].

2007/1156

Released on December 21, 2007

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2007/dec/97941.htm
GreekForumer
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:46 am
Location: Australia

Postby Nikitas » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:17 am

Big Oz,

What would you consider satisfactory proof of TMT forcing all non TC people out of TC controlled areas?

The expulsion of Armenians is a documented fact, people who lived it are still alive today and corroborate each other. It happened and we know it happened.

The British foreign office documents also cite the activities of TMT and the fact is that TMT enforced a segregation of TCs from non TCs, it was not just against Greek Cypriots.

At that time, 1958, I lived two blocks away from the Lokmaci area and we had almost daily attacks on our neighborhood by mobs of TCs. These were not provoked in any way, and it is now clear they were organized to scare us away from the TC area.

The British also record how it was impossible to collect garbage in Nicosia because the TMT would not let GC garbagemen into the TC neighborhoods. It was a well thought out plan, the KIP plan which was directed by TUrkish mainland army officers. What is the surprise for then? Facts are facts.

Another interesting fact, is the testimony of Major Packard, the British Intelligence Officer who was part of the UN peace keeping force in 1964. Packard reports how the US State Department official George Ball reacted to Packard showing him villages that were pacified after the initial fighting. "Son, you dont get it, the name of the game here is partition".

In other words the US had decided by early 1964 to support the TMT and Turkish General Staff plans.

As for the Greek Junta, everyone on this forum seems to forget there were two Greek Juntas, the one from 1967 till 1973 and the later one headed by Ioannidis.

The Greek investigations into the events surrounding the Cyprus issue, known in Greece as the Cyprus File, are still classified. So we do not know the full facts, we can only surmise from surrounding events. For me the most telling is the remark by the dictator Ioannidis when they confirmed to him that Turkey had invaded: "the bastards betrayed me!" It is up to everyone to decide who were the bastards he was referring to and how they betrayed him.
Nikitas
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 7420
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:49 pm

Postby zan » Sun Dec 23, 2007 2:40 am

2. Movement: the Refugee Exodus

(a) The Greek-Cypriot Community

A comparison of the 1960 and 1970 census figures indicates that there were possibly 12 mixed villages which have been wholly or partially evacuated by Greek-Cypriots because of inter-communal fighting between 21 December 1963 and 10 August 1964. The total number of Greek-Cypriots involved was 750 according to the 1960 census; however, field investigation indicates that very little of this rural Greek-Cypriot exodus can be attributed to the conflict. Probably less than 200 Greek-Cypriots from six mixed villages became refugees because of fighting or tension after 21 December 1963. The apparent evacuation of the other locations was due either to peculiarities in the census formats or to a general trend of rural depopulation resulting from urbanization.[61]

Official government figures[62] indicate that in 1967 442 Greek-Cypriot owned houses were in Turkish-Cypriot hands, or were abandoned either because they had been damaged by fighting or because of their proximity to dangerous areas. These figures however do not indicate the number of these houses which had been leased to Turk-Cypriots when fighting began. These houses were distributed among six towns: 236 in Nicosia; 42 in Famagusta; 66 in Larnaca; 44 in Ktima; 12 in Polis; 42 in Lefka. During the street fighting which occurred in Nicosia, Larnaca and Ktima, it is probable that a few thousand Greek-Cypriots fled from their homes. However, the majority of these people were able to return in a matter of days. The total number of rural and urban Greek-Cypriots who could be classified as refugees at the end of 1970 was probably only a few hundred.

On 4 March 1964, Turk-Cypriots evicted all Armenians from the Turkish-Cypriot quarters of Nicosia. This expulsion followed on the discovery of apparent collusion between some Armenians and armed Greek-Cypriot irregulars. Two hundred and thirty one Armenian houses were taken over by Turk-Cypriots, and their residents were given only a few hours notice to leave.[63] This expulsion gave rise to intense enmity against Turk-Cypriots within the small Armenian community; however, the Armenians had cast their lot with the Greek-Cypriots.[64] In the light of this decision, and of the situation created by the conflict, the responsibility for the Armenian expulsion cannot be wholly attributed to Turk-Cypriot extremists.

(b) The Turkish-Cypriot Community

We have previously noted that the process of urbanization and the refugee movements during the EOKA campaign had contributed to a progressive separation of the Cypriot ethnic communities. This disengagement was accelerated by the violent inter-communal conflict between December 1963 and August 1964.

During this period, Turkish-Cypriots completely evacuated their quarters in 72 mixed villages and abandoned 24 Turkish-Cypriot villages. In addition, they partially evacuated 8 mixed villages. In every one of the six district towns a partial evacuation of the Turkish-Cypriot quarters had occurred. Turk-Cypriots had partially returned to 21 villages which they had evacuated during the EOKA campaign. All but three of these villages were evacuated for a second time after December 1963. The total number of Turkish-Cypriot refugees cannot be accurately assessed because of the confusion of the period. It is known that in 1970 about 20,000 Turkish-Cypriots were registered as refugees with Turkish-Cypriot welfare authorities. If we consider the number of refugees who have not registered for welfare benefits and those refugees who have subsequently returned to their homes, UNFICYP's estimate of 25,000, as the maximum number of Turk-Cypriot refugees during the period of December 1963 to August 1964, seems quite reasonable. About two-thirds of these initially left their homes and moved to other villages and towns. The remaining one-third moved to other quarters within the same village or town.

By 1970 about 1,300 Turkish-Cypriot refugees had returned to 19 mixed villages and 5 Turk-Cypriot villages. Thus by 1970, 57 formerly mixed villages were wholly Greek-Cypriot, and 19 Turk-Cypriot villages remained deserted (i.e. in relation to the 1960 census).[68] . . .

If we consider the refugee movement outside the district towns, we find that the exodus occurred in a number of waves. The initial movement occurred in 1963 when fighting first broke out in Nicosia and Larnaca. The majority of the refugee movements took place from the villages near these towns; 16 per cent of all villages evacuated between December 1963 and August 1964 were abandoned within a few days of 23 December 1963. The December refugee movement was halted by Greek-Cypriot blockades. However, after freedom of movement agreements were negotiated in January 1964, a second refugee movement took place. The evacuations of January were much more widespread than those of December and accounted for 51 per cent of all villages eventually deserted by August 1964. During the first half of February a third movement took place, primarily in Paphos District, which accounts for 18 per cent of all village evacuations. Three villages were evacuated during the second week in March, and two on 11 May. The last major refugee movement occurred in the Tylliria Region on 4 August as a result of the Greek-Cypriot offensive. . .

Turk-Cypriots generally left those mixed villages in which they were in a minority. In addition, they left 10 mixed villages in which they were the majority, according to the 1960 census. However, hundreds of Greek-Cypriot armed reinforcements moved into many mixed villages in which Turk-Cypriots were in the majority, and so, at the time of their exodus, the Turk-Cypriots were in fact in the minority. In any case, the majority-minority status is more accurately defined by taking a broader view than one confined to the ethnic composition of each village in isolation. Invariably a Turkish-Cypriot majority in a given mixed village gives way to a minority status if the regional situation is considered.

The official Greek-Cypriot position is that the major portion of the Turkish-Cypriot refugee movement was both initiated and directed by Turkish-Cypriot leaders in accordance with a contingency plan to facilitate partition. Turkish-Cypriot leaders, on the other hand, claim that they had not developed any such contingency plan for population consolidation, nor did they initiate the movements which did occur. These leaders claim that their community members moved because they were intimidated by Greek-Cypriots, and that Turk-Cypriots fled, without prior planning, to the nearest refuge.

The author's investigations reveal that the overwhelming majority of Turk-Cypriot refugees moved only after Turk-Cypriots had been killed, abducted or harrassed by Greek-Cypriots within their village, quarter, or in the local vicinity. Most refugees expected to return to their homes within a few months at the most, and it was this assumption of an early return that facilitated their departure in the first place. In some instances, the evacuation of certain villages was encouraged by the expectation of an imminent invasion by Turkey. There was an understandable desire to withdraw from Greek-Cypriot areas which might become bombing targets of the Turkish air force. It was only in a few instances, after January 1964, that the Turkish-Cypriot Leadership took the initiative in recommending that certain villages should be evacuated. However, it is known that such advice was not always followed. Normally the Leadership was approached by village elders only after the villagers had already decided to evacuate, and they sought the Leadership's assistance In the pro- vision of transport and refugee housing. Any official administrative organization to direct refugee movements, or to oversee their welfare, was not established until the bulk of the refugees had already moved on their own initiative.

Generally, Turk-Cypriot refugees moved en masse to the nearest Turk-Cypriot village or quarter that was guarded by Fighters. In most cases, refugees fled from their homes, leaving clothing, furniture and food behind. Most of the abandoned villages and quarters were ransacked and even burned by Greek-Cypriots. A subsequent re-distribution of refugees took place when individual families left their first hostels for more distant areas where they had relatives, or where they could be near their property, or where they heard there was better accommodation, employment and security. If a village was gradually evacuated, the refugees would initially disperse more widely than those villagers who had been forced out at short notice. Many refugees from all over the island eventually moved to the Turkish-Cypriot quarter of Nicosia because it was here they thought homes and jobs could most readily be found. The Nicosia enclave also offered the most security since it was here that the Turkish National Contingent was stationed and the Fighters were strongest. In review, the pattern of refugee movement was not one that seems to have been designed to facilitate partition.

Although it appears unlikely that there was any centralized co-ordination of the Turk-Cypriot refugee exodus, there is ample proof that Turk-Cypriot political and military leaders controlled the return of refugees to their former homes. It is known that in late 1964 some local Fighter commanders resorted to armed threats and even murder to prevent some refugees from moving into government controlled areas,[69] but it is not known to what extent such actions were directed or condoned by leaders in Nicosia. However, such coercion should be put in perspective. The government was prepared to encourage the return of Turk-Cypriot refugees provided that they accepted government authority and that they did not return to 'sensitive' areas. Such areas included locations adjacent to Turkish-Cypriot enclaves or National Guard positions, and also mixed villages in which returned Turk-Cypriots would outnumber Greek-Cypriots. In addition, known Fighter leaders were specifically prohibited from returning. The acceptance of such pre-conditions would have won for the government the victory that it had failed to achieve by its armed offensive. In addition, the hostility of many local Greek-Cypriots was such that Turk-Cypriots did not believe that the government could fulfill its guarantees that returning refugees would not be molested. In any case, by August 1964, the abandoned homes were looted and often burned-out ruins. Neither community had the resources to rebuild the houses, to purchase new farming equipment or to provide resettlement grants. The side that undertook such indemnities would also be tacitly admitting to a degree of responsibility in the creation of the refugee problem, and that neither community was prepared to do.
User avatar
zan
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 16213
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:55 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests