Cyprus-Forum.com

[Nikitas]

Kikapu,

I read the plan carefully and must congratulate you on the thought and hard work you put into it. It would be a good plan if it addressed the gut fears that I have as a Greek Cypriot- non resident in Cyprus. Let me make some comments.

Like the Annan plan you make the effort to safeguard the rights of settlers, and like the Annan plan you have NO provisions to bring back to the island people like me and my children- that is Cypriots forced to live abroad because of 1974! I find that a little insultling to all of us emigrants, Greeks, Turks and others.

You do not address the suspicion of a future scessionist move by the Turkish Federal State. Like the Annan plan you dissolve the Republic, and if the one state splits off then what is left in terms of legal personality? Zilch!

Security to me means that nothing like 1974 will ever happen again. I see no provision for that considering that an invasion can be mounted from Turkey in hours rather than days.

I see no incorporation of European treaties which these days take precedence over local constitutions- things like the freedom of movement, establishment, residence etc.

Finally you do not deal with the foreign military presence on the island and something in my gut tells me that that is the real problem all these years!

Despite the ctritique I thinkg it is a reasonable plan, and a serious effort.

Nikitas

[Kikapu]

Kikapu,

I read the plan carefully and must congratulate you on the thought and hard work you put into it. It would be a good plan if it addressed the gut fears that I have as a Greek Cypriot- non resident in Cyprus. Let me make some comments.

Like the Annan plan you make the effort to safeguard the rights of settlers, and like the Annan plan you have NO provisions to bring back to the island people like me and my children- that is Cypriots forced to live abroad because of 1974! I find that a little insultling to all of us emigrants, Greeks, Turks and others.

You do not address the suspicion of a future scessionist move by the Turkish Federal State. Like the Annan plan you dissolve the Republic, and if the one state splits off then what is left in terms of legal personality? Zilch!

Security to me means that nothing like 1974 will ever happen again. I see no provision for that considering that an invasion can be mounted from Turkey in hours rather than days.

I see no incorporation of European treaties which these days take precedence over local constitutions- things like the freedom of movement, establishment, residence etc.

Finally you do not deal with the foreign military presence on the island and something in my gut tells me that that is the real problem all these years!

Despite the ctritique I thinkg it is a reasonable plan, and a serious effort.

Nikitas

Welcome to the forum Nikitas,


Thank you for your kind words and also for your criticism.

The whole purpose of what I did, was to lay out a 10 year plan on how to get us from where we are to where we want to go, or in short "Here to There Plan". The idea is to use the time to:

a) build trust between the two communities,

b) bring up the economy of the North,

c) give people time to think what safeguards they need to trust each other,

d) each side to make proposals on how to write the new Constitution based on a Federation system with 2 states after 5 years, taking as long as 2 years to finish it.

e) then let each States write their own State Constitution by year 8-9 before being put for a referendum to be voted by each community separately in each State as well as for the Federal Constitution.

I did not make an attempt to write the Constitution at all, be it be the Federal or the State. This is for the people to write their own Constitution, knowing full well, anything that is un-Democratic, Racist or Violates Human Rights, will be vetoed my the communities, if it seems unfair to them. That will be the safeguard to all, that the above violations will not pass the referendum, just like what happened to the Annan Plan.

[Pyrpolizer]

Kikapu I 've read it man.

Generally it seems good but I would like to ask you this favor if possible. Could you please separate each "bone" of that "skeleton" and first give us your "philosophy" behind it? It will help us follow your thoughts rather than asking questions over questions to get through it.

To give you an example of what I mean Kifeas' proposal for 6 TC votes + 24 GC votes is based on the philosophy that a law might not get the majority of votes from the GCs/TCs but at least it will get 30% from the other community so it cannot be that bad. (even though it doesn't get the 50%). So if the other community wants it so much then let it pass.

[Kikapu]

Kikapu I 've read it man.

Generally it seems good but I would like to ask you this favor if possible. Could you please separate each "bone" of that "skeleton" and first give us your "philosophy" behind it? It will help us follow your thoughts rather than asking questions over questions to get through it.

To give you an example of what I mean Kifeas' proposal for 6 TC votes + 24 GC votes is based on the philosophy that a law might not get the majority of votes from the GCs/TCs but at least it will get 30% from the other community so it cannot be that bad. (even though it doesn't get the 50%). So if the other community wants it so much then let it pass.

Pyro,

I don't think I quiet understand what you are asking of me.

Are you talking about the "philosophy" behind the USA's Federal System for Cyprus, and how and why it will work.?

[Pyrpolizer]

Ok I 've read it once again Kikapu. Basically as you said is a "from here to there" proposal.

To summarize it is obvious we have an INITIAL agreement that says, both RoC and "Trnc" will continue administering their areas as they do now, there will be registration of all persons by RoC and strict control on newcomers, stop construction on GC properties, settling of the property issue re-establishing property rights, full and free trade of the northern part rising up of the northern economy, gradual removal of troops by 10%.
And as you said this will go on for 5 years. The remaining 5 we will complete the process to full implementation of the Fed system.

All these are fine my friend.BUT and this is a big BUT this is not a from here to there solution in the sense that 90% of what will happen at day 1 it is ALREADY THE SOLUTION, the remaining 10% is just "logistics" work, of how to finally turn the ALREADY EXISTING agreement with some changes and some real life data in hand into a Federal form.

Have I missed something, am I the only one who saw it that way???

Nevertheless it's a sensible proposal, there is no doubt about that.

[Pyrpolizer]

Kikapu I 've read it man.

Generally it seems good but I would like to ask you this favor if possible. Could you please separate each "bone" of that "skeleton" and first give us your "philosophy" behind it? It will help us follow your thoughts rather than asking questions over questions to get through it.

To give you an example of what I mean Kifeas' proposal for 6 TC votes + 24 GC votes is based on the philosophy that a law might not get the majority of votes from the GCs/TCs but at least it will get 30% from the other community so it cannot be that bad. (even though it doesn't get the 50%). So if the other community wants it so much then let it pass.

Pyro,

I don't think I quiet understand what you are asking of me.

Are you talking about the "philosophy" behind the USA's Federal System for Cyprus, and how and why it will work.?

No, no, forget it. Initially I thought it was very complicated but then I read it more carefully (OK, OK, this 2nd time I was taking notes down) so now I understand it completely.

[Pyrpolizer]

Now to make my self clearer how can the "trnc" continue administering her area in the first 5 years when the INITIAL agreement on properties will turn upside down her own administering system? What will the "trnc" tell the foreigners who purchased GC land, what will it tell the settlers who own her own title deeds. Imo this is totally impossible. The "trnc" is not only an administering body it has some rule of law behind it and according to that law it has existing oblications that by themselves violate your INITIAL proposal on properties.

Thinking of how to adjust your proposal to work, the only thing I can think of is that the administrative system in the north has to declare itself NOT BOUND/ NO OBLIGATED to the legal system that existed before. In this way however we will not have a "trnc" in the north but something else that will only copy the general ruling structure of ex "trnc" but legally stands on a new law. In plain language that "trnc" is abolished and replaced by something else.

[Pyrpolizer]

And to finalise my thoughts, your proposal is fine, it just needs discussing some of the details, i can guarantee you no GC disagrees with the general idea.

The problem is, I don't think you will find many TCs who will agree though.
I am all ears to see what other TCs will say. i suggest lets concentrate on the INITIAL agreements as described in Kikapus first 10 points.

Kikapu it might be a good idea to start new topic in Cyprus problem section and invite people who post there to see this topic. I personally haven't seen it because that's the only place I write...

[Chimera]

I am getting concerned that we are turning a perfectly simple solution into fodder for all and sundry to debate, eulogise and philosophise on. I know that is the human condition and I am prepared to accept it to a point.

But this is vergin on the ridiculous. However, it has served to congeal my thoughts on a peace solution...I can not foresee any othe workable plan other than:

The EU "forces" the hand of Turkey out of the affairs of Cyprus.
All peoples born on Cyprus have choice to remain.
All indigenous Cypriots have true recognition to acquire their stolen properties.
We establish a democracy, headed purely by the indigenous Cypriots, whilst allowing for the future flow of elections to vote in the candidates based on merit and popularity no matter their ethnic origins (save, born on Cyprus).

[humanist]

Chimera, I tottally agree with you. Though I would like to see the UN telling Turkey to bugger off. Like Birk, said this is a long lasting sulk.