Cyprus-Forum.com

[pantelis]

Are you for real???pantelis

Please respond to my my arguments above, if you have any....
I am, for real!

[Viewpoint]

Does someone who believes that the Gates should be closed deserve any serious attention?

The unpresedented move to open the gates has had so many positive effects on our communities, I have many Greek Cypriots friends whos friendship I value very much we visit each other and interact exchange views on the Cyprus issue which has helped me become more tollerant for their concerns and needs and visa versa. I am glad their views are not remotely close to yours.

The issues you raise have been answered so many times before in other threads maybe you should go back and read them.

If you feel so strongly about closing the gates then campaign for support in your community and if you are sucessful then you can inform the EU.

[pantelis]

helped me become more tollerant for their concerns

A very hypocritical kind of "friendship", I would say.
How do you address these concerns; with what kind of actions?

[pantelis]

Did anyone actually read what Professor İbrahim Özejder had to say?
Does anyone agree with his views and observations?

Please read it again!
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... ewsid=6913

[erolz]

Turkey's abuse and isolation of the TCs, are the main reasons for more years without a solution.

You may and try and get TC to blame Turkey for their current situation but it is not likely to get much response in my opinion.

If the TCs are not in a position to understand what the real issues are, negotiations or no negotiations, would the same effect; a big NOTHING.

What is it I am supposed to understand? That GC did nothing detrmiental to TC interests in Cyprus from 60 -74? That they did not want to remove from the TC community rights they previous agreed to accept? That they were not willing to use force and illegal means to this end? That it was Turkey that was oppressing the TC numerical minorty community in Cyprus from 60-74 and not GC? That the UN came to Cyprus to proctect it from Turkish military expansionism and not to stop GC killing TC and visa versa? That it was not Turkey that was the only country that cared about the plight of the TC in this period? That Turkey has not stood by the TC community in Cyprus since 74 even to this day - risking its own interests re EU accession for those of the TC community in Cyprus?

You talk of Turkeys 'abuse' of the TC people but for the TC people this abuse is nothing compared to the abuse we suffered at the hands of GC in the period 63-68 (and to 74). We may have Turkish soldiers here and Turkish influence in our politics but at least we have some political processes (unlike in 64 onwards) and at least we can sleep safe at nights (unlike in 63 onwards) and at least we are not living in tent cities (unlike 63 onwards).

Yes Turkey has resons other than altruism and concern for TC in it's interests in Cyprus. Yes I would prefer to have less Turkish troops in Cyprus and less Turkish mainland influence here. However if the price of that has to be capitulation of the TC communites rights in their own homeland then I will take the lesser evil of Turkish presence and influence here

It would be a relatively easy thing for Turkey to abandon the TC people in order to help ease it's own passage into the EU. The fact is it has not done so yet. Supporting the TC people has cost Turkey, fiscally, in lives of Turkish soldiers, in prestige in the eyes of the world and in many many other ways. If this is your idea of the way an 'abuser' behaves then it's little wonder you do not seem to understand the TC perspective on GC abuse of the TC community. If only the GC community had been willing to 'abuse' TC in the way Turkey has - by giving them a democratic say over their own homeland, by financial aid (in the billions over the years), by protecting them miltarily, by arguing ofr and defending their rights in international circles. If GC had 'abused' the TC in this way then there would be no Cyprus problem today, no refugess, no border, no restrcitions on anyones human rights and many many innocent Cypriots who lost their lives would be alive today. And you want me to blame Turkey for all of this? Or even blame them because today there is no settlement? Get real mate.

[pantelis]

Get real mate.

Since you think it is the GCs the ones to be blamed for your present situation, whether you think of it as "healthy" or not, then you should agree with me: THE GATES should CLOSE.

[boulio]

thats all they use the t/c for a trump card unfortunatly.

[erolz]

Get real mate.

Since you think it is the GCs the ones to be blamed for your present situation, whether you think of it as "healthy" or not, then you should agree with me: THE GATES should CLOSE.

No I just think the idea that TC should blame Turkey alone for their situation today is ridculous. I most certainly do not think the gates should close. I think we should all try and live togeather, meet, eat, drink and party togeather as much as the political situation allows and that the opening of the border - whilst in no way a solution, is a move in the right direction and creates the opportunity for us to mix and meet and hopefully start to understand and respect each other as indivduals and as communites.

[erolz]

thats all they use the t/c for a trump card unfortunatly.

The idea that Cyprus is Turkeys 'trump card' for getting into the EU is just madness. Do you really think that those in the EU that do not want Turkey in the EU give a toss about Cyprus? Such that if Turkey said 'ok we will abandon Cyprus - unilateraly pull all troops from the north' then those forces in the EU that want to block Turkish entry would then just say - ok actually now I have no problem with Turkish entry? Of course they would not. Their reasons for not wanting Turkey in the EU have NOTHING to do with Cyprus (except perhaps Greece - who actually does want Turkey in the EU). Cyprus is not a trump card for Turkish EU entry - it is a major problem for them in that regard. It is a problem for all those that do want Turkey in the EU. It is a 'weapon' and 'excuse' used by those who do not want Turkish entry into the EU and if it were to disapear tomorrow those people would find other weapons and excuses.

[Othellos]

thats all they use the t/c for a trump card unfortunatly.

The idea that Cyprus is Turkeys 'trump card' for getting into the EU is just madness. Do you really think that those in the EU that do not want Turkey in the EU give a toss about Cyprus? Such that if Turkey said 'ok we will abandon Cyprus - unilateraly pull all troops from the north' then those forces in the EU that want to block Turkish entry would then just say - ok actually now I have no problem with Turkish entry? Of course they would not. Their reasons for not wanting Turkey in the EU have NOTHING to do with Cyprus (except perhaps Greece - who actually does want Turkey in the EU). Cyprus is not a trump card for Turkish EU entry - it is a major problem for them in that regard. It is a problem for all those that do want Turkey in the EU. It is a 'weapon' and 'excuse' used by those who do not want Turkish entry into the EU and if it were to disapear tomorrow those people would find other weapons and excuses.

While what you say above does make sense, somehow I cannot see Turkey leaving from the occupied part of Cyprus before they secure their EU membership (if ever).

O.