Cyprus-Forum.com

[FreeSpirit]

[quote="Eliko]As a result of the 'Shock and Awe' attacks on Iraq, at which time Baghdad was subjected to aerial bombardments from high altitude (thus ensuring that there was no possibility of defence), close to 7,000 innocent civilians lost there lives.[/quote]

The second gulf war employed no high altitude carpet bombing (+35000'),
There was never any evidence to substantiate that any such bombing took place.
Precision guided ariel ordanance was used.
Even if it were true about the 7000 civillians; that figure is but a mere drop in the ocean compared to the millions Saddam murdered during his reign of terror.
If 7000 were killed by the method you say (which we know to be wrong) then that balances very well against the future figures that would have accumulated had saddam stayed in power..
I'm thankful for the lives saved by the deposing of Saddam

[FreeSpirit]

Very few of these people were actualy hurt during the coalition attacks the vast majority have been the victims of their own religious group, muslim terrorists.

That event was possibly THE most cowardly military attack ever perpetrated in the history of human conflict..

And your friend Saddam's attack on Kuwait, which regardles to what you thought of it was a sovereign state so out of bounds according to your thinking.

Where do we start naming all the places your hero Adolf Hitler invaded/attacked before and during WWII.

Or your other friends the Japs for their cowardly attack on Pearl Harbour, folowed by the way that they treat prisoners of war, which makes the US internment camp look like a tea party.

[Eliko]

Important matters press me now, I must depart for a sort spell.

[miltiades]

miltiades, thank you for your response and may I say that you have (probably inadvertently) raised a quite interesting point in mentioning the 'Chicago Gunman'.

Such events are quite commonplace in the U.S.A. and are naturally viewed with a certain amount of disdainment by other nations.

Do you not consider it possible that on account of such actions occuring in what we consider to be OUR civilized society, THEY feel it would be detrimental to theirs were they to adopt OUR 'Democratic' principles ?.

No doubt you will counter my point by highlighting some obscure peculiarity which exists elsewhere BUT, the fact is that WE of the West (and I include myself ) are trying to forcefully introduce 'Democracy' to those nations which neither need nor want it.

If other nations view our 'Democratic' system with such misgivings, surely we should have the intelligence to ask ourselves WHY. it is quite apparent to me, DIFFERENCE, people do not want change since they are suspicious of it.

Which would you prefer to drink miltiades, 'Taylor's Port' or 'Vinegar' , it's as simple as that.

In my humble opinion.

Eliko , the USA is a massive country as you know made up of populace of myriad ethnicities. It is a free country and there is a constitution , the greatest ever piece of legislature guarantying its citizens freedom , human rights and freedom of speech. the homicide rate per 100000 in the USA IS 5.9 , which places America at no.27 .
TO put these figures in perspective , Jamaica tops the list with 46.59 followed by Venezuela at 42 and South Africa at 39.5. Turkey at 3.83 , some 40% lower than the USA and Cyprus at 1.70 .When you look at the overall world picture you will see that the USA is pretty well positioned , bearing in mind that this nation is made up from mostly all nations of the world.
There elections going on at the moment , can you recall anyone being shot at , intimidated or arrested for supporting the wrong candidate, NO , This is the USA not Iran , Iraq , Egypt , Kenya , Jamaica or any other third world nation.
LONG LIVE AMERICA AND MAY SHE CONTINUE TO BE THE SUPERPOWER BECAUSE GOD HELP US IF CHINA PICKS UP THE MANTLE !!!
God help especially those who dont believe in Him. !!!

[FreeSpirit]

There elections going on at the moment , can you recall anyone being shot at , intimidated or arrested for supporting the wrong candidate, NO , This is the USA not Iran , Iraq , Egypt , Kenya , Jamaica or any other third world nation.

But on the other hand an Anglican Bishop, in the UK, with an Asian name, has received threats from the muslim community for speaking the truth; which is that many white people don't feel safe walking in muslin districts due to the attacks and threats they've received when they have ventured there.
Before you start think of this, our town of 30k+ has a predominantly Asian staffed taxi service, our town is a residential area not an inner city it has very few people from ethnic minorities yet there have been no incidents regarding the ethnic status of these taxi drivers. Would the same apply if a white person set up a taxi service in islamabad or Bradford? I think nor.
This is the UK where freedom of speech, freedom of thought apply to all people and all sexes unlike muslim countries.

[miltiades]

Absolutely , and the rights of everyone protected by the law . I have had many a times harsh words with Traffic Wardens , I'm allergic to them , despise them immensely couldn't care less if they are only doing their jobs or not , I hate them , and I hate the system that extracts money from me by stealth taxation .I can shout it , and I usually do , from the top of my voice with out fearing a knock at my door at 3 in the morning.
Freedom of speech , free to praise the Lord , Allah , Jehovah or any other false God , no one forces me to go to church to believe or to toe the line and not criticize.
I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no GOD. Can I say that in these poxy third world theocracies who think that the sun shines out of their God's arse. No Sir I couldn't.

[Eliko]

[quote="Eliko]As a result of the 'Shock and Awe' attacks on Iraq, at which time Baghdad was subjected to aerial bombardments from high altitude (thus ensuring that there was no possibility of defence), close to 7,000 innocent civilians lost there lives.[/quote]

The second gulf war employed no high altitude carpet bombing (+35000'),
There was never any evidence to substantiate that any such bombing took place.
Precision guided ariel ordanance was used.
Even if it were true about the 7000 civillians; that figure is but a mere drop in the ocean compared to the millions Saddam murdered during his reign of terror.
If 7000 were killed by the method you say (which we know to be wrong) then that balances very well against the future figures that would have accumulated had saddam stayed in power..
I'm thankful for the lives saved by the deposing of Saddam[/quote]

There is no such thing as a 'Second Gulf War' since no such declaration was made, it therefore does not qualify for such a noble title despite what the politicians and gutter press may deem otherwise.

The 'Shock and Awe' bombing attack DID take place from the safe altitude of 6 miles thus ensuring that no defence was possible.

Mercifully, no carpet bombing took place at that stage and nobody has suggested it did, certainly it was used at a later stage in the campaign of aggression (a more suitable title than 'War').

The continuous references to Saddam Hussein's regime and his shocking treatment of his subjects, is of no consequence in this particular instance since such issues were only highlighted subsequent to the unlawful attack being condemned by most of the civilized world.

Had Saddam Hussein been the primary target and his removal so vital on account of his cruel treatment, a small detachment of S.A.S. commandos could have quite easily taken him out.

Which leaves us pondering the 'REAL reason for such a barbarous and unlawful (now proven beyond doubt) assault on an innocent nation, triggered by a litany of lies and false accusations.

The 'Oil Fields' may well be the true targets, THAT would be a fair assessment.

In my humble opinion.

[FreeSpirit]

[
The 'Shock and Awe' bombing attack DID take place from the safe altitude of 6 miles thus ensuring that no defence was possible.

Mercifully, no carpet bombing took place at that stage and nobody has suggested it did, certainly it was used at a later stage in the campaign of aggression (a more suitable title than 'War').

The continuous references to Saddam Hussein's regime and his shocking treatment of his subjects, is of no consequence in this particular instance since such issues were only highlighted subsequent to the unlawful attack being condemned by most of the civilized world.

Had Saddam Hussein been the primary target and his removal so vital on account of his cruel treatment, a small detachment of S.A.S. commandos could have quite easily taken him out.

ink:

No free fall bombing took place in the second gulf war!

Saddam's brutal treatment of his own and other countries people was well documented/highlited before the first gulf war,
Remember the chemical attacks on all sexes and ages of the Kurdish people before and after the first gulf war as well as the marsh arabs.

Saddam had several stand ins/lookalikes and never stayed in the same place two nights running, he had dozens of homes/palaces.

It was proven that many of the times that he appeared in a none speaking roll in public that a stand in was used.

[Eliko]

Very few of these people were actualy hurt during the coalition attacks the vast majority have been the victims of their own religious group, muslim terrorists.

That event was possibly THE most cowardly military attack ever perpetrated in the history of human conflict..

And your friend Saddam's attack on Kuwait, which regardles to what you thought of it was a sovereign state so out of bounds according to your thinking.

Where do we start naming all the places your hero Adolf Hitler invaded/attacked before and during WWII.

Or your other friends the Japs for their cowardly attack on Pearl Harbour, folowed by the way that they treat prisoners of war, which makes the US internment camp look like a tea party.

Saddam was never a friend of mine, his action in Kuwait was satisfactorily dealt with (or so it was generally thought at the time) and it is of no consequence now.

Similarly Adolf Hitler was not of my acquaintance, his actions are again of no consequence in the matters we are now addressing.

As to the Japanese and their attack on 'Pearl Harbour', cowardly though it may appear to be, it was at least an act which embraced the tenets of warfare and is therefore not a suitable comparison.

I do believe that there is much speculation that the Japanese action was a well thought out plan in order to furnish the U.S.A. with a suitable excuse to use the 'Atomic Weapon' OUTSIDE the usual testing areas, it did serve it's purpose in bringing to an end the war, others may disagree, I don't.

Incidentally, Emporer Hirohito was not of my acquaintance either, I do seem to remember that the chap was graciously received by 'Her Majesty' some time ago, much to the disapproval of many veterans that survived his horror camps, no problem though, what else would they expect, they are only people after all.

Your constant juvenile references to inconsequential matters serves little purpose in the arena of intelligent debate, I would strongly urge you to adhere to the matters under scrutiny lest you should expose your inadequacies more my friend.

Footnote:- I am sure the film 'Bridge over the river Kwai' is source of your knowledge of P.O.W. camps, malingerers didn't last long there matey.

[Eliko]

Absolutely , and the rights of everyone protected by the law . I have had many a times harsh words with Traffic Wardens , I'm allergic to them , despise them immensely couldn't care less if they are only doing their jobs or not , I hate them , and I hate the system that extracts money from me by stealth taxation .I can shout it , and I usually do , from the top of my voice with out fearing a knock at my door at 3 in the morning.
Freedom of speech , free to praise the Lord , Allah , Jehovah or any other false God , no one forces me to go to church to believe or to toe the line and not criticize.
I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no GOD. Can I say that in these poxy third world theocracies who think that the sun shines out of their God's arse. No Sir I couldn't.

miltiades, I believe you are referring to 'The Good Old Days' when you advocate free speech.

Go down to No10 Downing street and have a toot , see how you get on now mate.

Your reference to the non existence of God should be a matter for your own conscience, it is considered blasphemous to those who DO believe (not I) and is quite unnecessarily cruel to the millions of poor and suffering people of the world who have lttle else to sustain them.

Therefore, I would urge you (out of deference to those aforementioned people) not to continuously advertise your lack of piety.