Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

Are you kidding me Insan? They are all there for border security? One soldier for every 7 metres of border?

I didn't calculate how many soldiers needed for what meter including coastline security forces but Turkish troops are in The North as a deterrent force against all threats and possible to be appear dangers. Ok?

Are they that paraoid that they will be 'invaded' by the greeks with their up-to-date military hardware of the 1970's?

Hahahaha! Same poor argument! I think you still didn't read the conference notes of Mr. Norton and you assume yourself an expert about the military force in South. That conference was held infront of Greek, Turkish and US army officers.

The UN did the job with 1200 men. So I guess the other 33800 or so troops are there on holiday? Having a party? Smoking hashish? Why doers Turkey need so many troops in Cyprus? McShane keeps asking why...

Yeah! And Turkish army asks, "GC administartion entered the EU, whole EU forces are behind them. Why do they still keep maintaining, 17.000 National Guard, 4000 Eldik troops and 35.000 reservists?


And tell me why do you oppose bilateral reduction of military power on both sides of the Island. According to Treaty of Guarantee and Treaty of Alliance, both sides have been violating the international treaties. Why don't you consider end the violation of international treaties on your side as well?

This is the essential of the issue. Or you think you are kidding me or what!

[Saint Jimmy]

I'm really wondering why do you all insist on unilateral troop withdrawal but not bilateral? Which one is more rational?

Of course, Insan, that makes a lot more sense.
Now, I am not sure about this, I mean, I haven't read it anywhere or anything, but I'm dead sure that if there was any such chance (of bilateral withdrawal), our guys (well, not all of them, just Vassiliou and Clerides) would have jumped at it... I'm guessing it might have been proposed at some point over the years, only to be rejected by Denktas and/or the Turkish military establishment.

[insan]

9. Why are you asking for the complete withdrawal of the Turkish army?

There are many reasons for asking a complete demilitarization of Cyprus. Firstly, this is a provision required by UN resolutions. Secondly, the Turkish army's presence in Cyprus violates international law and creates an environment of insecurity for both Turkish and Greek Cypriots. And finally, the Turkish army has a long history of interference in Turkish and Turkish Cypriot politics. Its presence will prevent democratization of Cyprus, jeopardize the process of reconciliation, encourage radicalism, and turn Cyprus into a protectorate of foreign powers, particularly Turkey.

10. Why not ask for the withdrawal of the Greek army?

We are asking for complete demilitarization which includes the Greek army and the Cyprus National Guard as well. In the past, the presence of a Greek army has encouraged radicalism from the Greek Cypriot community. We stress the importance of the withdrawal of all armies and forces particularly those in violation of international law and relevant UN resolutions. In addition, if Greece and Turkey engage in conflict elsewhere (e.g. in the Aegean or Thrace), they might then use Cyprus as a convenient battleground. Likewise, any crisis in Cyprus might escalate into a Greek-Turkish confrontation, if the two countries maintain troops in the island. We believe instead that a strong central police and a temporary United Nations force will serve our need for security without damaging inter-communal or Greek-Turkish relations.

http://www.cyprusaction.org/protests/feb3/faq.php

Are they dealt with by the presence of increased Greek and Turkish forces or troops in Cyprus? The answer is no. Cyprus must be demilitarized. And demilitarization is not as Mr. Denktash means it, which is that Greece and Turkey will have an army on the island and not the Federal Republic of Cyprus. This would not be demilitarization but the subjugation of Cyprus and its transformation from an independent state into a protectorate.

http://www.un.int/cyprus/cyproblem.htm


I think this is the problem. A Cyprus Army means 1/4 unbalance situation of the military power against TCs. We need to balance it. The most trustworthy for TCs is Turkey but GCs don't trust Turkey. On the other hand TCs don't trust National Guard and Eldik. Thus, it seems to me that a mutually agreed number of Turkis and GC, Greek troops presence in Cyprus would balance the security concerns of two communities.

You have concerns about Turkish army but on the other hand you want us to trust National Guard. Why? Do we have to trust National Guard? When did National Guard feel responsible itself for security of TCs?

[Saint Jimmy]

Thus, it seems to me that a mutually agreed number of Turkis and GC, Greek presence in Cyprus would balance the security concerns of two communities.

Yes, and if that number is 0 (zero) then we're all happy.

[insan]

Thus, it seems to me that a mutually agreed number of Turkis and GC, Greek presence in Cyprus would balance the security concerns of two communities.

Yes, and if that number is 0 (zero) then we're all happy.

I agree with you. On the other hand a well trained police force would be adequate to struggle against any possible to be appear paramilitary organizations. But I'm underlining it, a well trained bi-communal police force; not a vulgar, malicious, partisan police force...

[insan]

Denktash said: "Whatever the content of the demilitarization is, they have to know that nothing will affect the 1960 guarantee system. We will not consider a good will approach anything that is aimed at watering down or changing or affecting the guarantee system. Otherwise, trying to do away with a system which has saved the Turkish Cypriots from absolute annihilation could be considered another plot by those who under the code name of Hyperides sworn in to continue to the struggle until Hellenism becomes victorious in Cyprus".

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/199 ... .tcpr.html


Well said re Denktash! On the one hand they talk about "demilitarization of Cyprus" on the other hand they keep on talking their national cause and how to achieve it.


Can someone tell me a bit about what is the national cause of GC nation?

[Saint Jimmy]

Denktash said: "Whatever the content of the demilitarization is, they have to know that nothing will affect the 1960 guarantee system. We will not consider a good will approach anything that is aimed at watering down or changing or affecting the guarantee system. Otherwise, trying to do away with a system which has saved the Turkish Cypriots from absolute annihilation could be considered another plot by those who under the code name of Hyperides sworn in to continue to the struggle until Hellenism becomes victorious in Cyprus".

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/199 ... .tcpr.html


Well said re Denktash! On the one hand they talk about "demilitarization of Cyprus" on the other hand they keep on talking their national cause and how to achieve it.

ΟΚ, well said. So you are against the concept of demilitarization? Because he is...
And, the reference to Clerides, I just don't understand it! Are you saying that he was trying to get Hellenism to become victorious in Cyprus??? I thought you had realized that Clerides was a rational man who wasn't trying to cheat you...

Can someone tell me a bit about what is the national cause of GC nation?

The national cause of the GC nation, if there is such a thing (either a 'national cause' or a 'GC nation'), is to maintain our Hellenic roots, our 'hellenicity', if the word exists. That does not necessarily mean that it should be maintained at TCs' expense (although it could mean exactly that, as we very well know). What it certainly means is that we're proud of who we are, just as you should be.

[insan]

No one else should take actions which adversely affect our policy on the Cyprus question and in the final analysis harm our national cause.

I do not question the patriotism, good faith or national motives of any Greek Cypriot. But these qualities do not necessarily promote a national cause. A mistaken action may cause enormous damage to a national issue, regardless of the good intentions and noble motives behind it.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/kygtpen/ ... gtpen.html

The President admitted that his decision "constitutes a change from the previous decision concerning the deployment of the missiles in Cyprus."


"But I do not accept that today's decision was theresult of giving in to pressures, threats and blackmail. Itwas simply the result of responsible assessment andrealistic evaluation of all the existing conditions, factorsand prospects, which affects, directly or indirectly, thecourse of our national issue," President Clerides said.


At the same time, he said "I believe that the decision Ihave taken today is correct. And I am absolutely sure thatour national cause and our national interest would be servedeffectively with this decision."

http://kypros.org/UN/bul-1298.htm

Ministry raps pupils for new demo
By Aline Davidian
THE Education Ministry has issued a stern rebuke to school children

who joined university students in a march yesterday on the American embassy.

"The government considers the national issue to be passing through a critical stage, and these types of action may even result in damaging the national cause," said senior Education Ministry Official Christos Georgiades yesterday.

The march was to mark the 24th anniversary of the student uprising against the Junta in Greece and to link it to the continuing Cypriot struggle.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/cmnews/1 ... mnews.html

The Greek main opposition leader told reporters that the Cyprus issue was the top national cause for Greece and called on the Greek government and premier Costas Simitis to declare "today" that Greece "will not vote in favor of the accession of new member states if they do not also include Cyprus".

http://www.greekembassy.org/Embassy/con ... ticle=8390

Pangalos, Mihailidis stress good cooperation between Greece, Cyprus
Meeting on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly yesterday, Foreign Minister Theodoros Pangalos and his Cypriot counterpart Alekos Mihailidis discussed issues of bilateral cooperation, the Cyprus problem and certain details of Prime Minister Costas Simitis' planned visit to Nicosia.
Mr. Mihailidis underlined the usefulness of bilateral cooperation.

"We are particularly happy because the results of the (Greek) elections maintain the road open for the continuation of this close cooperation between the two countries, which is very useful for the national cause of Cyprus," he said.

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/apeen/199 ... apeen.html

Statements of PASOK President Mr. George A. Papandreou following his meeting with the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Mr. Tassos Papadopoulos
14 March, 2004

Mr. Papandreou: I had a very good meeting with the President of the Republic of Cyprus, Mr. Papadopoulos. I stressed, as I have stated, that we continue to support the effort of Cyprus toward a viable and functional solution, and we are, as always, present in every initiative to support this national cause.

http://media.papandreou.gr/media/conten ... language=0


They try hard to conceal this "national cause" issue but they can't. What kind of "national cause" is this they are refering to?

[turkcyp]

I didn't calculate how many soldiers needed for what meter including coastline security forces but Turkish troops are in The North as a deterrent force against all threats and possible to be appear dangers. Ok?

I actually concur this one. A big majority of troops on the border are TC troops, not Turkish army. Turkish armies most of the garrisons are on the back areas.

But for GCs there is no difference between TC troops and Turkish Army troops, and there is no difference between settler and legal/illegal workers. For them every soldier in north Cyprus has to be Turkish Army and every mainland Turkish they see on the streets has to be a settler.

They should stop listening to their propaganda machine in the south. Yes unlkie what you believe settler amount to between 25-35% of the population in north, and there are around 5000-6000 TC troops in the north mainly doing border protection and are usually calculated by you under Turkish Army forces.

But as usual it is always more satisfying to believe your own version of reality.

So I say good dreams.....

[boulio]

im sure a census from a international orginization would and should put on end to all the speculations of how many settlers there are(pontian greeks in the roc included)and how many troops there are on both sides and in what contigent form they are g/c or eldyk or t/c and turkish troops.