Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

If there was no thought of Enosis in the GC mind, would TMT be formed? Would it have been necessary? What do you think?

Deniz, the answer is already in the post you are quoting from. If you look carefully you will see that I explicitly do not blame the TCs for starting the inter-communal conflict against us. All I am saying is the fact that the inter-communal conflict was not started by EOKA or the desire of GCs for Enosis, which is a desire that existed since 1821.

Now I have a question for you and everybody else including Bir:

Say the GCs where "enlightened" early on and had realized that independence was another valid way to gain their freedom and self-determination. So they fought for independence instead of union with Greece and they asked TCs to join them.

The desire of the UK to maintain control over Cyprus and the interests of Turkey over Cyprus would still be the same.

So when (not if) the British and the Turks would approach the TCs and tell them that they are not just Cypriots but instead "equal partners" and that if they collaborate with them to help them maintain some troops and some control over Cyprus, that in return they would grand to them huge gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, do you think TCs would reject this proposal? Even when the British and the Turks would remind them of the old adversary between Greeks and Turks?

Personally I believe we would again be at the same position, with the British and the Turks giving to TCs way too much gains on our loss so they could create a conflicting situation and apply their divide and rule as usual. It might have even been worst for us, since in that case maybe we wouldn't even have Greece on our side. We would be just small Cyprus among the lions.

[zan]

If there was no thought of Enosis in the GC mind, would TMT be formed? Would it have been necessary? What do you think?

Deniz, the answer is already in the post you are quoting from. If you look carefully you will see that I explicitly do not blame the TCs for starting the inter-communal conflict against us. All I am saying is the fact that the inter-communal conflict was not started by EOKA or the desire of GCs for Enosis, which is a desire that existed since 1821.

Now I have a question for you and everybody else including Bir:

Say the GCs where "enlightened" early on and had realized that independence was another valid way to gain their freedom and self-determination. So they fought for independence instead of union with Greece and they asked TCs to join them.

The desire of the UK to maintain control over Cyprus and the interests of Turkey over Cyprus would still be the same.

So when (not if) the British and the Turks would approach the TCs and tell them that they are not just Cypriots but instead "equal partners" and that if they collaborate with them to help them maintain some troops and some control over Cyprus, that in return they would grand to them huge gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, do you think TCs would reject this proposal? Even when the British and the Turks would remind them of the old adversary between Greeks and Turks?

Personally I believe we would again be at the same position, with the British and the Turks giving to TCs way too much gains on our loss so they could create a conflicting situation and apply their divide and rule as usual. It might have even been worst for us, since in that case maybe we wouldn't even have Greece on our side. We would be just small Cyprus among the lions.

My god...I feel for you Piratis.......How juvanile can you get....Well your poetry for a start I suppose ...You look so uncomfortable it makes me cringe......How much more can you spin....

[EPSILON]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

I never thought that you would be just another moron Epsilon, where did I say what you claim about the Greek soldiers above, hmmmm?

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

It is also a fact that that the Greek population both in Greece and in Cyprus is receding because your birth rate is less then your death rate and our is on the rise because we are having more babies than you lot. By rights your population should be less then what it was in the 40's/50's but instead has grown to around 800,000 so can you explain this phenomenon maybe pal?

BTW, you may have been the "local habitans" but you never owned Cyprus. Next, you'll be telling us that just because you lived in a house longer than the owner the house is yours and you don't have to give it back or pay rent any more. Your logic stinks mate, stinks of ENOSIS and the wish to make us TCs second class citizens in our own country. I take it you know what you can do with your logic or do you really want me to tell you?

TCS-Per my position, is not a second class citizens-are just not citizens of Cyprus-are just shelters like the necomers after 1974

-When you write in your own country !!!!!you mean the place you be found to stay after an invasion in 1578 and 1974.

Is not your country- is the country of Greeks-not belonging to second class Greeks of mainland Greece but original Greeks , coming directly from ancient Heelenic World.

[zan]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

I never thought that you would be just another moron Epsilon, where did I say what you claim about the Greek soldiers above, hmmmm?

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

It is also a fact that that the Greek population both in Greece and in Cyprus is receding because your birth rate is less then your death rate and our is on the rise because we are having more babies than you lot. By rights your population should be less then what it was in the 40's/50's but instead has grown to around 800,000 so can you explain this phenomenon maybe pal?

BTW, you may have been the "local habitans" but you never owned Cyprus. Next, you'll be telling us that just because you lived in a house longer than the owner the house is yours and you don't have to give it back or pay rent any more. Your logic stinks mate, stinks of ENOSIS and the wish to make us TCs second class citizens in our own country. I take it you know what you can do with your logic or do you really want me to tell you?

TCS-Per my position, is not a second class citizens-are just not citizens of Cyprus-are just shelters like the necomers after 1974

-When you write in your own country !!!!!you mean the place you be found to stay after an invasion in 1578 and 1974.

Is not your country- is the country of Greeks-not belonging to second class Greeks of mainland Greece but original Greeks , coming directly from ancient Heelenic World.

Blimey! They must be old....

[Eric dayi]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

I never thought that you would be just another moron Epsilon, where did I say what you claim about the Greek soldiers above, hmmmm?

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

It is also a fact that that the Greek population both in Greece and in Cyprus is receding because your birth rate is less then your death rate and our is on the rise because we are having more babies than you lot. By rights your population should be less then what it was in the 40's/50's but instead has grown to around 800,000 so can you explain this phenomenon maybe pal?

BTW, you may have been the "local habitans" but you never owned Cyprus. Next, you'll be telling us that just because you lived in a house longer than the owner the house is yours and you don't have to give it back or pay rent any more. Your logic stinks mate, stinks of ENOSIS and the wish to make us TCs second class citizens in our own country. I take it you know what you can do with your logic or do you really want me to tell you?

TCS-Per my position, is not a second class citizens-are just not citizens of Cyprus-are just shelters like the necomers after 1974

-When you write in your own country !!!!!you mean the place you be found to stay after an invasion in 1578 and 1974.

Is not your country- is the country of Greeks-not belonging to second class Greeks of mainland Greece but original Greeks , coming directly from ancient Heelenic World.

Thank you Epsilon, we TCs love morons like you who are honest enough tell us to our face what your real intentions/thoughts are.

You might be a moron but at least you are not a moron and a liar like the rest of the GCs in this forum who try very hard to hide their true intentions by inventing one lie after another one.

Now all you have to do is make sure you tell the same thing to the two idiots Kick-a-poo and Birkibrisli and let the fools realise they are not welcome in a Greek country.


Next to TPapadope, you are my "bestest" friend.

[Sotos]

These are very good posts from Bir. Keep it up Bir! Don't let those hate propagandists stop the truth!

[denizaksulu]

If there was no thought of Enosis in the GC mind, would TMT be formed? Would it have been necessary? What do you think?

Deniz, the answer is already in the post you are quoting from. If you look carefully you will see that I explicitly do not blame the TCs for starting the inter-communal conflict against us. All I am saying is the fact that the inter-communal conflict was not started by EOKA or the desire of GCs for Enosis, which is a desire that existed since 1821.

Now I have a question for you and everybody else including Bir:

Say the GCs where "enlightened" early on and had realized that independence was another valid way to gain their freedom and self-determination. So they fought for independence instead of union with Greece and they asked TCs to join them.

The desire of the UK to maintain control over Cyprus and the interests of Turkey over Cyprus would still be the same.

So when (not if) the British and the Turks would approach the TCs and tell them that they are not just Cypriots but instead "equal partners" and that if they collaborate with them to help them maintain some troops and some control over Cyprus, that in return they would grand to them huge gains on the loss of the rest of Cypriots, do you think TCs would reject this proposal? Even when the British and the Turks would remind them of the old adversary between Greeks and Turks?

Personally I believe we would again be at the same position, with the British and the Turks giving to TCs way too much gains on our loss so they could create a conflicting situation and apply their divide and rule as usual. It might have even been worst for us, since in that case maybe we wouldn't even have Greece on our side. We would be just small Cyprus among the lions.

You say "to gain their freedom and self-determination". , but why put the two notions together, Piratis. Once you have your freedom with the TCs) why is it necessary to have 'self-determination'? Self determination would only lead in one direction. ENOSIS. Therefore I can not answer your question. But you did answer it yourself in a way, stating that, "The desire of the UK to maintain control over Cyprus and the interests of Turkey over Cyprus would still be the same."

[denizaksulu]

Eric has said:

When you talk about ENOSIS you are not just talking abut the 50's. Apart from that it is a fact that the Brits let a hell of a lot of Greeks settle in Cyprus and that's why you became a majority in such high numbers in a very short time. From 1960 to 1963 a shit load of Greek soldiers were brought into Cyprus to guarantee a swift and successful ENOSIS bringing with them shit load of guns and ammo.

.

My friend you are leaving in a paranoid world. Greeks became majority because of Greek soldiers!!!!!

I never thought that you would be just another moron Epsilon, where did I say what you claim about the Greek soldiers above, hmmmm?

Greeks my friend are the local habitans of the Island since times when Turkey was not in the map.!!!!

It is also a fact that that the Greek population both in Greece and in Cyprus is receding because your birth rate is less then your death rate and our is on the rise because we are having more babies than you lot. By rights your population should be less then what it was in the 40's/50's but instead has grown to around 800,000 so can you explain this phenomenon maybe pal?

BTW, you may have been the "local habitans" but you never owned Cyprus. Next, you'll be telling us that just because you lived in a house longer than the owner the house is yours and you don't have to give it back or pay rent any more. Your logic stinks mate, stinks of ENOSIS and the wish to make us TCs second class citizens in our own country. I take it you know what you can do with your logic or do you really want me to tell you?

TCS-Per my position, is not a second class citizens-are just not citizens of Cyprus-are just shelters like the necomers after 1974

-When you write in your own country !!!!!you mean the place you be found to stay after an invasion in 1578 and 1974.

Is not your country- is the country of Greeks-not belonging to second class Greeks of mainland Greece but original Greeks , coming directly from ancient Heelenic World.

Reading your posts Epsilon, is getting a bit tedious. Please use yourspell checker and get the dates right, right?

Thank you

[utu]

These are very good posts from Bir. Keep it up Bir! Don't let those hate propagandists stop the truth!

Remember what Ponitis Pilate said: "What is Truth?"

Propaganda is a mixture of fact interpretation intended to put the best possible picture for the people propogating it. So while it can be decried as blatant bias, that must also mean that there is a grain or two of fact in there somewhere. So the question should be that famous quote by Sergeant Friday in Dragnet: "Just give us the facts".

[BirKibrisli]

The TC/Turkish demand for 'Cyprus to be returned to her previous rulers' was of course an ambit claim. It was invented and manipulated by the British to serve their own purposes. By 1956 however Cyprus problem had reached a new turning point...

The 15 July,1955 edition of Turkey's influential "Forum" magazine had come up with a new solution : The Partition (Taksim) of Cyprus between Turkey and Greece... On 25 February 1956,this idea was repeated in the Turkish parilament by the independent member for Manisa,Hikmet Bayur.
And on 19 July 1956,in an speech to the House of Commons,the Conservative MP Walter Elliot put the idea of partition officially on the British political agenda as "something to be seriously considered as the final solution".

The idea gained enough momentum to be reported in the Athens newspapers on 14 october 1956.And by the end of 1956 the idea was warmly embraced by the Turkish prime Minister Menderes who,not so long ago,was on record for saying that Cyprus was not a piece of cloth to be torn up any which way...

By the end of 1957,the TMT slogan "Ya Taksim Ya Olum"(Partition or Death) was painted all over Cyprus in blood-red paint.. Yet there were still people warning of the gravity of such a solution as early as January,1957. Following is a translation of the appropriate sections of a letter (translation by me-BK) to Professor Nihat Erim (later to be appointed Prime Minister by the Military) who was the Head of the committee preparing the official Turkish policy on Cyprus:

" ...Turks and Greeks of Cyprus are one indivisible people who have lived together for hundreds of years on these lands. They have ploughed fields together,worked side by side in workshops as brothers together,lived side by side together and embraced each other in towns and villages,laughed together in good times and cried together in the bad times,sharing a common fate...

"...The idea of Partition mentioned in the British Parilament recently is not only impractical but also impossible to serve as a lasting solution. Turkish and Greek Cypriots do not live separately in their exclusive areas. Such a solution would necessitate internal migration which will prove impossible to accomplish without serious ramifications...

" Our heroic nation has taken the lead role in the libertion struggle against colonialism in the Near and Middle East. This is written in gold in our own history,and it is admired by the rest of the world. It is our bigest wish to see this honorable historical tradition continue. And History has put that responsibility primarily on your own shoulders..."

Signed
Administrator
Turkish Cypriot Branch
AKEL

The TC members of AKEL were not alone in opposing the emerging policy of Partition. Another prominent TC who strongly opposed Partition was Dr Ihsan Ali. Originally from Paphos,Dr Ali first became prominent as the representative on the KATAK (the first serious TC political association established in 1943). He was a well-liked local doctor with plenty of integrity who,in 1953, was elected as a councillor on the Paphos Municipal Council. In an interview given to a foreign journalist in 1960 he had this to say:

" I was the first TC politician to speak openly against Partition. I was saying,' gentlemen, the talks are heading towards Taksim. This is a dirty trick by the imperialists. Partition is a diabolical solution.'

"When I realised the colonial power was intend on dividing the Turkish and Greek Cypriots,I resigned from my position. In March,1958 Denktash,who had become the leader of TMT, invited me to work and cooperate with him. I refused because I knew in which direction Denktash's terrorist plans were heading. They were heading towards brother killing brother..." (Schmidt, Auf der Suche nach Aphrodite,Leipzig,1966,p.246)