Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Eric, the only lier here it is you. I sorted you out about your "genocide" lies earlier, but it seems it is very difficult to drop your propaganda poems even when you have nothing to support them.

Eric Dayi, the ones who have committed genocide against others are non else than the Turks. You accusing Cypriots for genocide is funny.

The Turks killed 1.5 million Armenians and still you deny that this was a genocide.

In Cyprus the biggest slaughtering in history happened again by the Turks in 1570 when within days they killed 20.000 people in Nicosia alone. That was more than 10% of the population of Cyprus killed within days, and therefore could be defined as genocide.

Since then the next biggest slaughtering in Cyprus happened in 1974 when the Turks, again, killed several 1000s of Cypriots and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands.

Now you tell me when TCs where "genocided"? In your dream?

TCs in total lost a few 100s people, in a period when they also killed a few 100s of GCs. You call that a "genocide"?

Do you think anybody buys your lies and gross exaggerations?

So cut the crap about GCs trying to genocide TCs. In the intercommunal conflict you got us much as you gave.

Furthermore, the intercommunal conflict lasted until 1968, not until 1974 as you claim.

Thirdly, the coup of 1974 was not supported by the majority of Greek Cypriots but only a small minority. The coupists tried to kill Makarios who escaped abroad and was at the UN condemning the coup on 19th of July. Meanwhile GC resistance fighters were fighting against the coupists. Later on the leadership of the coupists was send to jail for treason.

Only a small minority of GCs continued to actively support enosis after 1960 and especially after 1968. However there was also those TCs that continued to support partition, and you apparently forgot those and the crimes they committed against GCs (and TCs).

[Eric dayi]

Are you too stupid to see the reality Bir? It seems that you really are.

You are "digging" up some stuff that we already know about and repeating the same shite over and over again.

Now answer some questions below to make me believe you are not as stupid as you seem to be in this and other forums?

1) Did the GCs and Greeks want ENOSIS?

2)Did the GCs and Greeks tried to kill all us TCs to achieve their ENOSIS?

3) Would you have been happier if the GCs and Greeks actually achieved their ENOSIS?

4) Do you agree that we TCs had to fight back to stop the GCs and Greeks from achieving their ENOSIS or should we (TCs) have laid down and let them turn us in to Greek Muslims?

5) Did your own father who you say was a TMT fighter agreed to give the GCs and Greeks their ENOSIS or did he fight against it?

That'll do for a start, you don't have to give a comprehensive reply if you are too lazy, just a "Yes" or "NO" will do for each question. But you know we'll all know if you are lying or not so I suggest you think before you answer.

I doubt very much that you will have the guts to answer any or all of the questions I put to you above so I will not hold my breath waiting. More the pity eh? It means you will not get rid of me and that I will be on your case what ever lies and GC/Greek propaganda you try to spread.

Please don't think I am replying because you challenged me in your last paragraph,Eric...You have taken the time to write out your questions. They do not include insults (I am choosing to ignore your opening salvo!) so they deserve to be answered...

Yeah, sure Bir, whatever you say.

1. YES

At least one right Bir.

2. NO

You are a liar Bir.

3. NO

Well, at least something good came out of this.

4. We had a legitimate reason to fight to stop ENOSIS,yes. But Enosis was ruled out by the 1960 agreements.

ENOSIS was ruled out by 1960 agreement? Now, why didn't anyone say that to the Greeks and the Gcs at the time? Becuase as I remember it and I am sure so does everyone else, the ENOSIS war, therefor the attempted genocide war on us TCs started in 1963. This went on till 1974 when the Gcs and the Greek junta decided to have another go at ENOSIS and to genicide us TCs for their dream. Maybe you were living in a different Cyprus than the rest of us Bir and have your wires crossed. Or maybe you were born in Oz and dreamed all what was going on in Cyprus at the time.

We had no excuse to be part of the destruction of our own independent state.

You already said No to question 3 Bir and now you claim the above? What would you have us do in 1963 when the GCs AND Greeks attacked us and tried to genocide us for their ENOSIS dream? Put up our hands and pray that they do not murder us? They buried people, men, women and children alive, their hands tied to their backs with barbed wire for Gods sake, what sort of an animal are to accept what they did to your own people and still put the blame on the TCs whom you claim to be one of?

I would've been very happy to call myself a Cypriot Muslim. Or better still just a Cypriot...

You can call yourself what ever the hell you want but you have no right at all to demand the same from me or anyone else. I remember distinctly that you refused to move to the "RoC" until the problem is sorted out, which in anyone's mind means that even you don't trust the GCs enough to live amongst them. What you said there proves to me that in the back of your mind you are scared in case something starts in Cyprus and you are stuck there as a TC amongst Turk hating GCs and Greeks.

5. My father did his bit in the legitimate struggle to oppose Enosis. He left the TMT a disgusted and disillusioned man,after realising what the real aim was ,and how they planed to achieve it...

And you expect us all to believe your story about yourself and your father, right? Pull the other one Bir, it's got bells on it.

The "plan" was to survive as Turkish Cypriots, survive the genocide attempts of the GCs and the Greeks and our brave fighters that you claim your father was one of, did what they had to do to make sure we as a TC community survived in Cyprus. If it wasn't for the bravery of those people you, I and the rest of the TCs would not be here today, we would all be dead or all the surviving TCs would be living in foreign countries without a home country to go back to.

You are a fool Bir but the only one you are fooling is yourself by lying to yourself about what happened in Cyprus. I know, I know, you can't really help it, you have been brainwashed by the Greeks you were living with in OZ, blame them for your misfortune.

You are a liar and a lost cause Bir and like other TCs, I will at every opportunity you give us will remind you of what a liar you are.

Okey,Eric...Here is my challenge to you. Just go back and reread my narrative posts,and tell me where the lies are...If you can prove that there is one lie in what I am narrating I will stop doing it...Fair enough???

No need to go back Bir, your last reply is enough to call you a liar and I have read enough of your posts in the past to know what a liar you are and that you always put the blame on us TCs. Even in your last reply your answer to question number 4 you put the blame on us TCs.

You answered Yes to the GCs wanting ENOSIS but No, to their attempts to genocide us TC knowing full well that had they had the opportunity they would have killed every single TC or chased us off the island, again you lied about this fact.

You even said "We had no excuse to be part of the destruction of our own independent state." again putting the blame on us but refused to give an explanation of what we TCs should have done instead.

You also claimed that ENOSIS was ruled out in the 1960 agreement but never gave an explanation why the Greeks and Greek Cypriots together started an ENOSIS war and attempted to genocide us for their dream.

You are stuck up the creek without a paddle Bir and are trying to divert attention from your latest lies, but same as every other trick your masters tried this has also backfired in your face/s.

Like I said Bir, I will at every opportunity you give us remind you and everyone else what a liar you are.

[Eric dayi]

Eric, the only lier here it is you. I sorted you out about your "genocide" lies earlier, but it seems it is very difficult to drop your propaganda poems even when you have nothing to support them.

Stop kidding yourself you moron, you couldn't sort out the small change in your pocket never mind sorting me or anyone else out.

Eric Dayi, the ones who have committed genocide against others are non else than the Turks. You accusing Cypriots for genocide is funny.

The Turks killed 1.5 million Armenians and still you deny that this was a genocide.

In Cyprus the biggest slaughtering in history happened again by the Turks in 1570 when within days they killed 20.000 people in Nicosia alone. That was more than 10% of the population of Cyprus killed within days, and therefore could be defined as genocide.

Since then the next biggest slaughtering in Cyprus happened in 1974 when the Turks, again, killed several 1000s of Cypriots and ethnically cleansed 100s of thousands.

Now you tell me when TCs where "genocided"? In your dream?

TCs in total lost a few 100s people, in a period when they also killed a few 100s of GCs. You call that a "genocide"?

Do you think anybody buys your lies and gross exaggerations?

So cut the crap about GCs trying to genocide TCs. In the intercommunal conflict you got us much as you gave.

Furthermore, the intercommunal conflict lasted until 1968, not until 1974 as you claim.

Thirdly, the coup of 1974 was not supported by the majority of Greek Cypriots but only a small minority. The coupists tried to kill Makarios who escaped abroad and was at the UN condemning the coup on 19th of July. Meanwhile GC resistance fighters were fighting against the coupists. Later on the leadership of the coupists was send to jail for treason.

Only a small minority of GCs continued to actively support enosis after 1960 and especially after 1968. However there was also those TCs that continued to support partition, and you apparently forgot those and the crimes they committed against GCs (and TCs).

[/quote]

The reason why we support partition is that it is a proven fact that you GCs and Greeks never keep your word or abide by the agreement you sign. The whole world know what liars you are, especially after the APlan.

"intercommunal conflict" my arse, you admit that you wanted ENOSIS and even bring in Greek soldiers from Greece to help you kill us but you are trying to downplay your genocide attempt as "intercommunal conflict".

Why do you think that you lost the international communities support pal, is it because you tried to give us TCs a group cuddle and we refused? Or was it because everyone knows you lied about the "intercommunal conflict" and in fact it was an attempt to genocide us TCs?

Everyone know that you lied about what really happened in Cyprus from 1963 through to 1974. Everyone knows you lied about the APLan and voted "OXI". Everyone knows that you have been lying ever since the troubles started in Cyprus and they also have realised you don't want to share power with us TCs. They have all sussed you out for what you are, liars.

Denktash and one of your "presidents" (Clerides I think) came to an agreement that was to bring an end to the CypProp only to be refused by the next one and all the ones who followed him. Why do you think TPapadope is in hot water with the EU and the US all the way up to his cakehole? What do you think the EU and the international community is going to do after TPapadope wins the elections, and he will win, hmmmm?
Sit around and wait for you lot for another 44 years?

What do you think TPapadope is going to do after he wins the elections, hmmmm? Invite us to join you lot in the so-called "RoC" as a minority knowing full well that we will never accept?

Maybe he will invite us TCs to go back to the 1960 agreement but hang on a minute, you GCs will not allow him to do that and he doesn't want that himself anyways because none of you want us TCs as your equal and/or share power with us TCs, so what is he/are you going to do without the support of the international community?

What if someone else instead of TPapadope wins, very unlikely if you ask me but what if, what is he going to do that TPapadope would not do himself or what would you GCs will allow him to do?

Question, question, question eh? But we all know the answer to all these questions don't we? The best thing you can hope for is a BBF with a very loose "centrall government" where neither of the community has nothing to say over the other, isn't that as good as a partition? Of course it is and that's why you don't want it, you are greedy and want it all, the island, the
country complete with the name of "RoC" and us TCs as second class minority so that you could complete your genocide attempt "legaly" and have your ENOSIS. Forget it pal, your attempts didn't work in the past and will not work in the future either. You will just have to accept and get used to partition which has already happened anyway and live with it.

The only thing stopping you attempting another genocide against us TCs is the Turkish army, if they left you would not hesitate to have another go. Everyone knows that and that is why no one demands that Turkey leaves the island. No one wants to be responsible for what you will do to us TCs.

[BirKibrisli]

No need to go back Bir, your last reply is enough to call you a liar and I have read enough of your posts in the past to know what a liar you are and that you always put the blame on us TCs. Even in your last reply your answer to question number 4 you put the blame on us TCs.

You answered Yes to the GCs wanting ENOSIS but No, to their attempts to genocide us TC knowing full well that had they had the opportunity they would have killed every single TC or chased us off the island, again you lied about this fact.

You even said "We had no excuse to be part of the destruction of our own independent state." again putting the blame on us but refused to give an explanation of what we TCs should have done instead.

You also claimed that ENOSIS was ruled out in the 1960 agreement but never gave an explanation why the Greeks and Greek Cypriots together started an ENOSIS war and attempted to genocide us for their dream.

You are stuck up the creek without a paddle Bir and are trying to divert attention from your latest lies, but same as every other trick your masters tried this has also backfired in your face/s.

Like I said Bir, I will at every opportunity you give us remind you and everyone else what a liar you are.

My God,Eric...You are worse than Zan with your cognitive distortions.

Just because you state an opinion not supported by any facts does not make that opinion true...And people who do not share that opinion cannot be called liars...Back to the drawing board,my good friend. Show me one proof that anything I say in my narratives are lies...
I have another question for you...Do you know how many people were killed during the EOKA's armed struggle for Enosis between 1955 and 59?
And how many were British,TC,GC etc???? go and find the numbers and come and tell me if they support your assertions...

[Nikitas]

Eric has said:

"Hey Nikitas, I called you a LIAR but have not seen you reply to defend yourself. Do you agree that you are a liar or do you want me to prove your lies. It might be in your interest to come clean and apologise what you lied about instead of being proven a liar. What do you say?"

Your accusations do not make sense.

I said that in the 50s most Greek Cypriots had never met a mainland Greek. You say this is a lie. Well let me put it in perspective. My father met my mother when he was a volunteer officer in the British Royal Navy during World War II. She was the first mainland Greek the people in our village had ever met in the flesh. The same goes for most Cypriots as there were no mainland Greeks living in Cyprus and not many Cypriots traveled to Greece. Back in the 50s the concept of foreign travel, holidays etc was still uknown. I would say the same goes for TCs and mainland Turks. You call me a liar, presumably you have the opposite view so go ahead and give your proof.

Greece gave no substantial material help to the EOKA struggle. There were no shiploads of arms. As the weapons captured by the British prove, they were mostly old weapon in poor condition. EOKA people went to Crete (this I know from personal research) and collected a motley of arms from civilians because they could not get them from the official Greek state. In Cyprus itself there was an attempt to copy British sten guns and to manufacture grenades and pipe bombs, precisely because there was no reliable supply from Greece. This you can see documented in the EOKA museum in Nicosia and in works of foreign authors on home made firearms, like Smith and others. You say this is a lie, give us your proof.

Just shouting LIAR at someone becaue you do not like what they say is not constructive, and shouting back is not dialogue.

[zan]

Birkibrisli to Piratis' rescue once again

Bir is just stating the obvious.

You started off by telling us that you could only put the TC side of the story and that others should put forward the GC side...Apart from Nikitas, who is more interested in saving face and justifying the GC actions...Who else has ventured an account of what the GCs did. Not a sausage

Zan, we never denied our wrong doings and our share of the blame.

The Generals of the Athens Junta were jailed, same goes for Samson in Cyprus. The actions of EOKA B were officially condemned, the fact that innocent TCs were killed during the intercommunal conflict was never denied.

Now look at your side: Were those Turks that made the invasion jailed? No on the contrary you celebrate it. Were the actions of TMT during the 60s condemned? Again NO. Do you admit that you killed 100s of Greek Cypriots during the intercommunal conflict and 1000s during the invasion? NO again.

What Bir does now is what we did officially many years ago. What more do you want us to say?

Apparently what you would like to be satisfied is nothing less than placing the whole blame on Greek Cypriots so you can label Greek Cypriots as the "evil" ones and you as the "Virgin Mary" and based on that excuse your criminal and illegal occupation of our country that you support today.

What you constantly do is use every excuse you can to justify the the fact that you still have control of the Cyprus government because of all those wrong doings and a simple sorry for the actions does not take away the fact of the cause. This you do not want to put right. This is the all important factor in which you twist and turn in order to hold onto. This is the factor which allows you exaggerate your innocence and claim justice was served. This is the contradiction in your whole idea that the "RoC" is the legal government of Cyprus. If you accept the wrongs then there must be a result of those wrongs and the result you like so you want to keep it.
Read and take in the thread Jerry posted in which nationalism is explained and how the GCs were partly responsible for Turkish Nationalism in the same way they were responsible for the TMT. The "We had a right to ENOSIS" doesn't cut it and you know it but BIr will back you up all the way so don't be alarmed.....

[Nikitas]

"the fact that you still have control of the Cyprus government because of all those wrong doings and a simple sorry for the actions does not take away the fact of the cause. This you do not want to put right. "

Well Zan, do you mean that if the RoC were to go fully back to the 1960 agreement then Turkey would automatically withdraw its troops, the TRNC would be dissolved and the partition reversed? Or do you mean that we keep the status quo in the north and turn the south into a fully official Republic of Cyprus with the 70-30 arrangment and full TC participation in parliament etc?

You do not clarify what you mean and it this is confusing me, and others I think.

[denizaksulu]

Don't you people go to sleep at all????

While i was in the land of nod some were upto your old tricks. But no worries. Rome was not built in one day...or one week...or one month.

I too want to thank Jerry for that link. I had a quick look and saved it for detailed study for later. If this thread achieves nothing else but the uncovering of that material I would consider it a success..

Now let me go away and compose some more narrative for you guys to consider...Well done ,everyone!

Yes BK, you go and compose and leave the fighting to us.

Study that link thoroughly, very informative indeed. Even the pirates up Piratis street.

I have no intention of fighting with anyone,Deniz yegen.
I am not making this stuff up.It is all there buried deep in the piles of official hatemongering propaganda. I am just digging it up for those people who would like to learn the true story of our tragic past...Eric Dayi and Zan are proving Piratis right. There are some people who simply refuse to see anything beyond one-sided brainwashing racist propaganda...It must be a very good feeling to be so sure that all the blame in our sorry saga is squarely on the "other" side...

BK, you took my 'fighting' too literally. It was a joke on you relaxing and composing while we are left holding fort. Chill out.

[zan]

Birkibrisli to Piratis' rescue once again

You started off by telling us that you could only put the TC side of the story and that others should put forward the GC side...Apart from Nikitas, who is more interested in saving face and justifying the GC actions...Who else has ventured an account of what the GCs did. Not a sausage And by you saying that you only know the Turkish side , does that not make your account a little one sided because as these things were going on what were the GCs doing. This whole thead is a waste of time and a blatant attack on the Turkish Cypriot people by you.

You have shown your colours many times Bir and you are doing it again here. You asked for back up to show that the GCs accept their part on all this and you got nothing. You asked for back up again and you still are getting nothing...You clearly believe that the TCs are to blame for everything with your claim that the information is out here...So why don't you find it and post a balanced thread instead of running us into the ground. What does it take for you to realise that these people do not play fair. You have given them the feeling that they are right and we are wrong...As if they needed any encouragement.....Where is your balance.....Why don't you just admit that you hate the TCs and the Turks equally and have done with it. Your house lays in ruin in the "RoC" and still we are to blame. We suffer embargoes at the hands of our killers and still you blame us. hat sort of a man are you??? If you end up living with the likes of Piratis then good...You deserve each other!!!


What happened to my New years Greetings.....I sent you one at that false name you gave me...You know the one..The one that you made up to fool me into thinking you were someone else...Te one that you don't check any more because it was meant just for me.......

Sorry,Zan. I wasn't ignoring you. I was out walking off the excess kilos I put on during the silly season.

Now,Piratis needs no rescueing from anyone,as you know well.

But I am starting to seriously worry about your cognitive processes,as they seem to include many distortions. My whole argument is that in a historical and complex struggle like ours it is impossible for the entire blame to be only on one side... So how can you think that I think all the blame is on the TCs???

I am doing what I think is the right thing to do...That is to dig up those facts and historical events which are ignored by our propaganda machine,and try to put things in their true prespective. I believe only if and when we can all see the clear picture and our role in this messy affair,only then can we find a fair and lasting peaceful solution. Not by repeating endlessly accusations based on one-sided half-truths,exaggerations or plain old lies...This applies to both sides. But it is not in my nature to rub other people's noses in their own mistakes. It will be counter productive in any case. Most people on this forum are intelligent enough to know the wrongs done by their side. If they don't choose to air it in public (and Piratis,Pyros,Kifeas,Bananiot,Cypezokyli,miltiades,humanist etc are on the record with their own self-criticisms) it does not mean I have to stop doing what I think is right.

And when will you realise that criticism does not equal hatred? Why should I hate my own kind? My son is half TC half Turkish anyway.Are you suggesting that I hate him every time I pull him up for doing something wrong??

I did not see the need to reply to your new years's greeting because i realised or thought it was generated by the computer. You know my real name so why should you use the name on my email address which is not mine. For your information,I have used a simple precaution and not used my real name when signing up to public forums on the net. But I explained that to you when I gave you my email address,I am sure. Everyone associated with this forum (with one exception you can guess) have that email address for me. So stop being paranoid...

Really.... ....You worry about my cognitive process when in one post you say to utu that the "RoC" has hijacked the Cyprus Republic and then here you try to justify their wrong doings. We all know the dirty tricks that went on by both sides and that neither one is a saint but by your actions you are allowing them to get away with our country. You back the likes of Piratis who do not want to give our country back and our rights. They twist and turn with their lies as to why they should hold onto it and you give them encouragement with threads like this. You excuse their ENOSIS claims in which both Makarios and Grivas SWORE an oath for ENOSIS and you then tell me that ENOSIS was dead with the Zurich agreement. You then are unable to follow the reasoning behind their actions to achieve this goal and the first phase involves getting us out of government.....But I will not go on about that here because I am sure you will ignore it again......The fact that your father had such problems with the TMT is all you care about mate and I am sorry about that but that was why I gave you the short reply of "He who lives by the sword". This should have been cancelled out by all those that were killed by EOKA both TC and GC but you hold a grudge against those you fought with and not the ones you fought against. You have the right to be angry with them but not the right to sell your people down the line because of it...Your anger with the TMT is over-riding everything else that you know to be true. ENOSIS was the main factor of all these troubles and whether it exists today or not is not the problem..The problem is they still have our Republic and you are siding with those that do not want to give it back because of some sort of chivalry that you think rubbing their noses in it would demean. DO you want your Republic back or not or is this call for a return to the Zurich agreement just another smoke screen??? DO you honestly believe they are going to give it back with the way Piratis and Kifeas talk.

Your only offer of a solution was " dissolve the TRNC and walk into the "RoC" and demand they let us back into the Cyprus Republic under the Zurich agreement". Do you realise that there is no Cyprus republic and the Zurich agreement has been made null and void by them. Did you not see the many speeches made by various GC leaders to that fact. They did it in 1964 and have denied it ever since to us. So your simplistic approach to the problem is to ask us to allow them to move into their homes and give them full control of the country and put ourselves back into the 3% that they forced us into back in the 60's and start complaining from there and they will see our plight and give us back our rights.....Nice plan govnor.......And you have a problem with my cognitive thinking The whole process of constitution and everything else about Cyprus has to be renegotiated and the fact that that is what has been happening since and they have not given an inch and prefer to hold onto power and through a hasty decision the UN gave them the power to do so is OK by you.

I think it is high time that you put your demands on the table with the likes of Piratis and see the response you get. I have asked you to write to the "RoC" administration to see what they say to your proposals and give us the answer but you know the result so you will not do it. Give us your final request from the GCs so that they can agree or disagree with you and stop this trying to be all things to all men crap. It would be more useful than this pointless thread in which you are getting no confessions from the GC at all but reasons as to why they are refusing to give us back our Cyprus republic. Then and only then will your cognitive thinking afford you the real picture. Lets have it Bir.......Lets have a discussion on how you are going to get the likes of Tpap to see it your way??????



I do not buy your explanation as to why you did not want to send me, by return, the new years greetings that I sent you. You want to play the saint all the time so a kindly reminder that I got your name mixed up with that on your actual email address would have been the right thing to do would it not. The greeting was not computer generated because it would not have contained any name if it was. I am not that good with computers as I have told you before. But even so...It came from an individual and courtesy dictates that a return of greeting is the way to go. Maybe a little hate got in the way hey!!! Me and Boomers have been taking chunks out of each other for a long time now but he returned my message with heartfelt best wishes and ha earned my respect...Although I secretly liked him anyway regardless of his piss taking abilities.

[Nikitas]

Bir,

I am very interested to learn what were the developments that caused your father to distance himself from TMT.

A similar parting occured with a person close to me who was in EOKA in the 50s. After 1960 this person was involved in EDMA but soon he realised that the patriotic movement was being hijacked and used for other ends. He left EDMA. Talking to him it is clear that he feels cheated and is embittered and disillusioned.