Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pumpy]

Speak about yourself. You of course are not Greek nor Cypriot. You don't speak Greek, you didn't serve in the army of Cyprus, you don't care about Cyprus (in fact you hate it), and I doubt you have the Cypriot citizenship. So what would make you Greek or Cypriot?

Cypriots are as Greek as it gets. Cyprus was Hellenized at the same time when most other Greek islands did, and just a few centuries after mainland Greece. All this happened long before the Greek civilization became the great civilization everybody admires today. Cypriots believed in the Gods of Olympus, one of which was Cypriot, and later became Greek Orthodox, again in line with the rest of the Greek world.

Greeks of Cyprus belong to the first Greek tribe, the Myceneans, and the spoke the most ancient Greek Language which became known as ArcadoCypriot since it was spoken in Arcadia (Peloponnese) and Cyprus. In fact Athenians and northern Greeks are mostly Dorians, a Greek tribe which arrived in the area later.

Cyprus did have many invadors and rulers since, but so did the other Greek islands and the Greek mainland itself.

Cyprus is not different, no different at all, than any other Greek island. The reason Cyprus today is not part of the Greek state is exclusively due to the fact that the British colonialists did not want to allow to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination and they have used the Muslim minority in Cyprus (turning them into "Turkish Cypriot community") as the excuse to deny to Cyprus its self-determination. All "Turkish Cypriots" before that spoke Greek, and in fact many of them had Greek as their mother tongue.

By the way Pumpy, you said you are "half English". Shouldn't you say a mix of Latin, Germanic and some other tribes?

Piratis, it would be quite helpful if you were to tell the truth about me every now and then, if only to know what it is like to debate openly and politely.

I am indeed half Greek Cypriot, my command of the language is weak, though respectable, and as far as the "Army" goes, that is clearly a ridiculous assertion you make based on a fanciful notion of what and who you think I am. I won't even acknowledge this statement.

I do not "hate" Cyprus, Piratis. Where have I said such a thing? Do we "love" our countries purely by omitting any criticism of them? What a laughable position to hold.

Some people seem to equate cultural identity factors, like language and religion, purely with being Greek (both aspects to Greekness that Greek Cypriots cling to for fear of not actually having a proper heritage or identity at all and quite an embarassing history of being overrun by foreign powers).

These perspectives are quite sad and a reflection of the confused state of the typical Cypriot in today's lost society. I'd say parentage and lineage have eveything to do with nationality and identity and the idea soneone can NOT be "Greek Cypriot" because they don't toe the line on certain areas is a joke. What a load of right wing nonsense.

Piratis progresses his post by equating language purely with nationality. Keep going, Piratis, as this is one of the few tenuous links you possess between Cyprus and Greece.

My "Englishness" is indeed up for dispute for the reasons given. A mixed blend for historical reasons, which is why my dear friend, people who recognise this call themselves "British" (all encompassing) as opposed to English (which denotes more of a racial harmony with the indigenous people).

I would never be so arrogant as to allign myself with a racially pure tribe. Seems like some of the more right wing greek cypriots here have trouble understanding their own position.

[Piratis]

Piratis, it would be quite helpful if you were to tell the truth about me every now and then, if only to know what it is like to debate openly and politely.

What I know about you is what you tell and show in the forum. To me it is clear that you are very English. The way you speak is English, your humor is English, the way you defend what the English have done and continue doing against Cyprus is of course very English, if I remember correctly you also defended the bases. On the contrary I can't see anything Greek or Cypriot about you. Are you not showing your true-self in the forum? Because that would be the only case the above conclusions would not be true. Yes, I don't dispute that can be "half GC", but it is obvious that your other half is what defines who you are.

I do not "hate" Cyprus, Piratis. Where have I said such a thing? Do we "love" our countries purely by omitting any criticism of them? What a laughable position to hold.

Criticism is one thing. Attack is another. How is trying to tell people what they are criticism? If I was going to England telling them that are all all Germans would that be considered a criticism?

Some people seem to equate cultural identity factors, like language and religion, purely with being Greek (both aspects to Greekness that Greek Cypriots cling to for fear of not actually having a proper heritage or identity at all and quite an embarassing history of being overrun by foreign powers).

These perspectives are quite sad and a reflection of the confused state of the typical Cypriot in today's lost society. I'd say parentage and lineage have eveything to do with nationality and identity and the idea soneone can NOT be "Greek Cypriot" because they don't toe the line on certain areas is a joke. What a load of right wing nonsense.

What this shows is that you are the confused one saying the right wing nonsense. Did we tell you what you are? You are free to identify yourself as you wish. You are the one who is trying to tell us what you think we should be, another thing that reveals your English colonialist mentality.

Piratis progresses his post by equating language purely with nationality. Keep going, Piratis, as this is one of the few tenuous links you possess between Cyprus and Greece.

Just language? Thats what you understood from reading my post? Why don't you tell me how Cretans or Rhodians are different from Cypriots, except from the fact that they were allowed to be part of the Greek state and we were not?

I would never be so arrogant as to allign myself with a racially pure tribe. Seems like some of the more right wing greek cypriots here have trouble understanding their own position.

There is no such thing as "racially pure tribe" anymore, and nobody said that Cypriots are "racially pure". Here we are talking about the identity of people, and people should be free to identify themselves as they wish. This whole "you are not Greek" crap is a British invention to excuse why they refused to Cyprus to be part of the Greek state when this was the desire of the great majority of the Cypriot people.

Yes, we made the compromise for an independent state (too bad they never gave us a true independence), but this doesn't change who we are. Today there are two Hellenic States, in the same way that there are several Slavic states.

[jacoby]

Their isn't anything as a pure racially tribe wether it be Greek, English or Turkish. Every country, every people has some difference in them. It's basically what makes them feel good about them selves that matters. Every people has differences in them that come from integrating with different cultures etc. Or did you think your spices all came from Cyprus or all your fruits.etc etc. Get real you are the same as everybody else you take or borrow etc. etc. etc. Again this is an island get over it, the world has a ton to offer you might want to include much more as it may be in your best interest. I visited the island many time over the years before deciding to settle here. My complaint when I went home home was that they always ate the same stuff day in day out . Souvla souvla etc. etc. coming from a multi cultural city where you could get any food any time made it difficult for me. But you are in Cyprus and this is the culture so expect it. Anyways as I said it is all a matter of personal opinion. I don't understand why GC send their kids to English schools and then speak to them in "greek". Only thought is that they will find better jobs with the ability to speak english. Then why try to speak english at the schools and on the radio. Why integrate ANY english in what you do if you hate it so much. Other than the fact that you know wether you want to believe or not your child is better of knowing english than they are greek. This is just a thought from some one on the outside looking in and finding the fact that so much english is integrated is quite funny as there is so much hate for the "english".......

[zan]

Speak about yourself. You of course are not Greek nor Cypriot. You don't speak Greek, you didn't serve in the army of Cyprus, you don't care about Cyprus (in fact you hate it), and I doubt you have the Cypriot citizenship. So what would make you Greek or Cypriot?

Cypriots are as Greek as it gets. Cyprus was Hellenized at the same time when most other Greek islands did, and just a few centuries after mainland Greece. All this happened long before the Greek civilization became the great civilization everybody admires today. Cypriots believed in the Gods of Olympus, one of which was Cypriot, and later became Greek Orthodox, again in line with the rest of the Greek world.

Greeks of Cyprus belong to the first Greek tribe, the Myceneans, and the spoke the most ancient Greek Language which became known as ArcadoCypriot since it was spoken in Arcadia (Peloponnese) and Cyprus. In fact Athenians and northern Greeks are mostly Dorians, a Greek tribe which arrived in the area later.

Cyprus did have many invadors and rulers since, but so did the other Greek islands and the Greek mainland itself.

Cyprus is not different, no different at all, than any other Greek island. The reason Cyprus today is not part of the Greek state is exclusively due to the fact that the British colonialists did not want to allow to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination and they have used the Muslim minority in Cyprus (turning them into "Turkish Cypriot community") as the excuse to deny to Cyprus its self-determination. All "Turkish Cypriots" before that spoke Greek, and in fact many of them had Greek as their mother tongue.

By the way Pumpy, you said you are "half English". Shouldn't you say a mix of Latin, Germanic and some other tribes?

Piratis, it would be quite helpful if you were to tell the truth about me every now and then, if only to know what it is like to debate openly and politely.

I am indeed half Greek Cypriot, my command of the language is weak, though respectable, and as far as the "Army" goes, that is clearly a ridiculous assertion you make based on a fanciful notion of what and who you think I am. I won't even acknowledge this statement.

I do not "hate" Cyprus, Piratis. Where have I said such a thing? Do we "love" our countries purely by omitting any criticism of them? What a laughable position to hold.

Some people seem to equate cultural identity factors, like language and religion, purely with being Greek (both aspects to Greekness that Greek Cypriots cling to for fear of not actually having a proper heritage or identity at all and quite an embarassing history of being overrun by foreign powers).

These perspectives are quite sad and a reflection of the confused state of the typical Cypriot in today's lost society. I'd say parentage and lineage have eveything to do with nationality and identity and the idea soneone can NOT be "Greek Cypriot" because they don't toe the line on certain areas is a joke. What a load of right wing nonsense.

Piratis progresses his post by equating language purely with nationality. Keep going, Piratis, as this is one of the few tenuous links you possess between Cyprus and Greece.

My "Englishness" is indeed up for dispute for the reasons given. A mixed blend for historical reasons, which is why my dear friend, people who recognise this call themselves "British" (all encompassing) as opposed to English (which denotes more of a racial harmony with the indigenous people).

I would never be so arrogant as to allign myself with a racially pure tribe. Seems like some of the more right wing greek cypriots here have trouble understanding their own position.

Pumpy

As soon as I had read the "Gods of Olympus" thing and "One was even a Cypriot" I would have just laughed and left the thread if I were you....

[Simon]

He is talking about ancient culture and religion Zan; something that you as a Turk would no nothing about I'm sure.

Your last post was excellent Piratis.

[Pumpy]

I'm not really bothered about Piratis's reactionary racist jibes against me. Water off a duck's back.

But now we have a correspondent above (Simon) who labels Turks as being Godless, cultureless nobodies.

Ever heard of the Ottoman empire?

[Sega]

And this is the ridiculous yet unwavering conviction that GCs labour under. That they (we?) are Greek, when the...

There are more Greek Cypriots outside Cyprus than inside Cyprus. Being a Greek-Cypriot in America, is different to being a Greek-Cypriot in Cyprus.

The excellent thing with being Greek is that our country and Greece too, are proud of your Greek heritage, which means you can call yourself Greek anywhere in the world. And from child to child you will still keep your Greek identity, consider the Pontiac Greeks. Consider Chicago, Johannesburg, London, Melbourne and think how many Greeks live there. Just to help you out I found a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_dias ... _countries

The times you are stating when the Venetians etc. tribes where different but the overall concept was the same. People who lived in other countries still where referred to as Greek. Bearing in mind that Greece once spanned a large portion of the Earth I would not dismiss that our DNS is linked to Asia Minor, after all the Greek name has been around for more than a few years and Asian Minor was once Greece.

I might not be like the Greek from Canada, or the Greek from Italy (there is a small Greek community there), or Norway (if there is any), but I am still Greek just like they are. I have only been to Greece once, my parents too. I have no link regarding region to Greece, but I am still Greek, similar to the Greeks in Egypt, Isreal etc.

If your Turkish you could consider, the Turks in Germany, Netherlands, Sweeden, UK. Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_diaspora. There still Turkish however.

Every country has culture, the Greeks being one of the oldest (if not the oldest), but all countries do. I am not sure what you want answering from the thread. It's like your creating reasonless arguements.

[phoenix]

Speak about yourself. You of course are not Greek nor Cypriot. You don't speak Greek, you didn't serve in the army of Cyprus, you don't care about Cyprus (in fact you hate it), and I doubt you have the Cypriot citizenship. So what would make you Greek or Cypriot?

Cypriots are as Greek as it gets. Cyprus was Hellenized at the same time when most other Greek islands did, and just a few centuries after mainland Greece. All this happened long before the Greek civilization became the great civilization everybody admires today. Cypriots believed in the Gods of Olympus, one of which was Cypriot, and later became Greek Orthodox, again in line with the rest of the Greek world.

Greeks of Cyprus belong to the first Greek tribe, the Myceneans, and the spoke the most ancient Greek Language which became known as ArcadoCypriot since it was spoken in Arcadia (Peloponnese) and Cyprus. In fact Athenians and northern Greeks are mostly Dorians, a Greek tribe which arrived in the area later.

Cyprus did have many invadors and rulers since, but so did the other Greek islands and the Greek mainland itself.

Cyprus is not different, no different at all, than any other Greek island. The reason Cyprus today is not part of the Greek state is exclusively due to the fact that the British colonialists did not want to allow to the Cypriot people their freedom and self-determination and they have used the Muslim minority in Cyprus (turning them into "Turkish Cypriot community") as the excuse to deny to Cyprus its self-determination. All "Turkish Cypriots" before that spoke Greek, and in fact many of them had Greek as their mother tongue.

By the way Pumpy, you said you are "half English". Shouldn't you say a mix of Latin, Germanic and some other tribes?

Piratis, it would be quite helpful if you were to tell the truth about me every now and then, if only to know what it is like to debate openly and politely.

I am indeed half Greek Cypriot, my command of the language is weak, though respectable, and as far as the "Army" goes, that is clearly a ridiculous assertion you make based on a fanciful notion of what and who you think I am. I won't even acknowledge this statement.

I do not "hate" Cyprus, Piratis. Where have I said such a thing? Do we "love" our countries purely by omitting any criticism of them? What a laughable position to hold.

Some people seem to equate cultural identity factors, like language and religion, purely with being Greek (both aspects to Greekness that Greek Cypriots cling to for fear of not actually having a proper heritage or identity at all and quite an embarassing history of being overrun by foreign powers).

These perspectives are quite sad and a reflection of the confused state of the typical Cypriot in today's lost society. I'd say parentage and lineage have eveything to do with nationality and identity and the idea soneone can NOT be "Greek Cypriot" because they don't toe the line on certain areas is a joke. What a load of right wing nonsense.
Piratis progresses his post by equating language purely with nationality. Keep going, Piratis, as this is one of the few tenuous links you possess between Cyprus and Greece.

My "Englishness" is indeed up for dispute for the reasons given. A mixed blend for historical reasons, which is why my dear friend, people who recognise this call themselves "British" (all encompassing) as opposed to English (which denotes more of a racial harmony with the indigenous people).

I would never be so arrogant as to allign myself with a racially pure tribe. Seems like some of the more right wing greek cypriots here have trouble understanding their own position.

Pumpy your lack of education and intellectual prowess is showing through enormously with every post.

I assumed you ignored my pointer to "memes" and its application to Greekness through an oversight.

However, it is now apparent you are not up to date with memetic theory and how that is so much more important than genes and hereditary lineage .... because basically, Human Beings are all the same ... We inherit such different messages than pure signals from our parents, because of recombination events at chromosome replication, that Genetics is less relevant to the liberal elitists thinkers / scientists than the cultural differences that seep down to us from parents and kin.

That which we inherit that is far stronger, more Humanly unique than genes (which less face it, can be as high as 99% identical to those of Chimps ) are the units of cultural inheritance, language, music, ideas and such like. These are the memes (akin to genes).

So Pumpy move with the times old boy, if you want to take on the heavy-weights like Piratis et al.

Here's a starter to get you motivated in the right direction (sorry it's from Wiki, but I don't think you are ready for the original Dawkins yet ....

A meme (pronounced /miːm/), as defined by memetic theory, constitutes a theoretical unit of cultural information, the building block of culture or cultural evolution which spreads through diffusion propagating from one mind to another analogously to the way in which a gene propagates from one organism to another as a unit of genetic information and of biological evolution.[1] Multiple memes may propagate as cooperative groups called memeplexes (meme complexes).

Biologist and evolutionary theorist Richard Dawkins coined the term meme in 1976.[2] He gave as examples tunes, catch-phrases, beliefs, clothing fashions, ways of making pots, and the technology of building arches.

Meme-theorists contend that memes evolve by natural selection (similarly to Darwinian biological evolution) through the processes of variation, mutation, competition, and inheritance influencing an individual entity's reproductive success. So with memes, some ideas will propagate less successfully and become extinct, while others will survive, spread, and, for better or for worse, mutate. "Memeticists argue that the memes most beneficial to their hosts will not necessarily survive; rather, those memes that replicate the most effectively spread best, which allows for the possibility that successful memes may prove detrimental to their hosts."[3]

A short story written in 1876 by Mark Twain, A Literary Nightmare, describes his encounter with a jingle so "catchy" that it plays over and over in his mind until he finally sings it out loud and infects others (also known as an earworm).

[Pumpy]

I think there's a clear break down in communication. Either that, or the bubbles on here have given their brains the weekend off, as well as their bodies.

There is no dispute amongst civilised folk in Britain that we are descendants of far flung folk. My point about Cyprus is that, you can go as far back as you like, the "Greek" link is far more tenuous than is admitted by the inhabitants. It's a simple fact.

Notwithstanding identifiers like language and religion, the ethnic background of GCs is not Greek. Not by a long chalk. It's more of a middle eastern / Asia Minor blend. Have you people not noticed that Greek Cypriots are much darker and middle eastern looking that proper Greeks who are fairer and mre European?

Or are you too busy supping Cyprus Coffee and smoking Senior Service to have seen this blatant truth?

Oh dear, my fellow bubbles, you really let yourselves down with your ignorance.

[zan]

He is talking about ancient culture and religion Zan; something that you as a Turk would no nothing about I'm sure.

Your last post was excellent Piratis.

How can you type with your tongue firmly wedged in his butt cheeks...What a talent


You can't even blow me a raspberry with that childish statement you made above....