Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

[...]

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

[...]

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat

Thank you for confirming my point.

What I want to see is truth and reconciliation. The claim that 130 Turkish Cypriot villages were burned is not the truth. In my opinion, by making such wild, unsubstantiated claims which can easily be refuted you actually provide ammunition for those who would deny the suffering endured by the Turkish Cypriot community at that time.

[wallace]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm57MKh-Ac

http://martinwilliamhill.fotopic.net/c1459049.html

few days later i will come to this topic again . In these days i am very bussy with my projects .

Tim , if you go back few pages back you can see the maps .... read what it says on the maps .

Halil, I have consulted the map and seen what it says: "VILLAGES WHICH MIGRATED AS A RESULT OF THE 1963 GREEK CYPRIOT ATTACKS". Apart from the fact that most of these incidents occured in 1964 rather than 1963, I do not dispute the fact that Turkish Cypriots left the villages shown on the map in the course of the 1963-1964 ethnic conflict.

However, the map does not show which, if any, of these villages are alleged to have been burned. With respect, I do not see the relevance to the current discussion. The claim is made that "hundreds of Turkish Cypriot villages were burned", and the purpose of this thread is to challenge this claim. Will anybody who believes that hundreds of entire villages were burned either name them or hold their peace? It is as simple as that.

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

In the article by Adnan Tink which I mentioned above, the writer says

1963 yılında EOKA'cılar yeni bir etnik temizleme planını devreye soktular, bu saldırılarda 500 Türk öldürüldü, 130 Türk köyü yakıldı, 25 bin Türk evlerini terk etmek zorunda kaldı.

[In 1963, EOKA supporters introduced a new ethnic cleansing plan and in these attacks 500 Turks were killed, 130 Turkish villages were burned and 25 thousand Turks had to abandon their houses]

This is what people in Turkey are being told. I have a simple question:

Is Adnan Tink's claim that 130 Turkish villages were burned in 1963 true or false?

In connection with this, if you believe that Adnan Tink's above claim is false, I have a second question:

Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat

Nobody says TC's did not suffer or destruction to TC's properties did not happen. All we want is to see a list with the names of villages totally burned. Looking at your post I'm sure you will not be able to provide the list either

[zan]

[...]

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

[...]

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat

Thank you for confirming my point.

What I want to see is truth and reconciliation. The claim that 130 Turkish Cypriot villages were burned is not the truth. In my opinion, by making such wild, unsubstantiated claims which can easily be refuted you actually provide ammunition for those who would deny the suffering endured by the Turkish Cypriot community at that time.

You have no point Tim......What you have done is take sides. I have not seen one post from you that takes on the exaggerated claims of GCs. If clarity is what you want then you do the leg work and give us the news reports of the day...Give us what you think happened. All you do is use the same lame tactics of disputing what happened to us on a technical point. Whole villages on fire or just 50 homes.....

I also hate your moral high ground stance....All we ALL want is peace and reconciliation...You are not sitting on that throne alone. The technicalities make it almost impossible...

[denizaksulu]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm57MKh-Ac

http://martinwilliamhill.fotopic.net/c1459049.html

few days later i will come to this topic again . In these days i am very bussy with my projects .

Tim , if you go back few pages back you can see the maps .... read what it says on the maps .

Halil, I have consulted the map and seen what it says: "VILLAGES WHICH MIGRATED AS A RESULT OF THE 1963 GREEK CYPRIOT ATTACKS". Apart from the fact that most of these incidents occured in 1964 rather than 1963, I do not dispute the fact that Turkish Cypriots left the villages shown on the map in the course of the 1963-1964 ethnic conflict.

However, the map does not show which, if any, of these villages are alleged to have been burned. With respect, I do not see the relevance to the current discussion. The claim is made that "hundreds of Turkish Cypriot villages were burned", and the purpose of this thread is to challenge this claim. Will anybody who believes that hundreds of entire villages were burned either name them or hold their peace? It is as simple as that.

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

In the article by Adnan Tink which I mentioned above, the writer says

1963 yılında EOKA'cılar yeni bir etnik temizleme planını devreye soktular, bu saldırılarda 500 Türk öldürüldü, 130 Türk köyü yakıldı, 25 bin Türk evlerini terk etmek zorunda kaldı.

[In 1963, EOKA supporters introduced a new ethnic cleansing plan and in these attacks 500 Turks were killed, 130 Turkish villages were burned and 25 thousand Turks had to abandon their houses]

This is what people in Turkey are being told. I have a simple question:

Is Adnan Tink's claim that 130 Turkish villages were burned in 1963 true or false?

In connection with this, if you believe that Adnan Tink's above claim is false, I have a second question:

Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat

A slight correction Zan. The main living quarters of our house remains intact. What has disappeared were the stables, the garage (where the cart was stored), the 'hanay' and outside buildinds. These were constructed of kerpic/mud-bricks, which need maintenance of the plaster covering them. Needless to say the stone mosque disappeared completely. Where one expects a mud-brick/kerpic building to fall into disrepair, not so the stone built mosque. This was pulled down soon after the TC residents left in 1964.
I am sorry of any confusion. .

[zan]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm57MKh-Ac

http://martinwilliamhill.fotopic.net/c1459049.html

few days later i will come to this topic again . In these days i am very bussy with my projects .

Tim , if you go back few pages back you can see the maps .... read what it says on the maps .

Halil, I have consulted the map and seen what it says: "VILLAGES WHICH MIGRATED AS A RESULT OF THE 1963 GREEK CYPRIOT ATTACKS". Apart from the fact that most of these incidents occured in 1964 rather than 1963, I do not dispute the fact that Turkish Cypriots left the villages shown on the map in the course of the 1963-1964 ethnic conflict.

However, the map does not show which, if any, of these villages are alleged to have been burned. With respect, I do not see the relevance to the current discussion. The claim is made that "hundreds of Turkish Cypriot villages were burned", and the purpose of this thread is to challenge this claim. Will anybody who believes that hundreds of entire villages were burned either name them or hold their peace? It is as simple as that.

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

In the article by Adnan Tink which I mentioned above, the writer says

1963 yılında EOKA'cılar yeni bir etnik temizleme planını devreye soktular, bu saldırılarda 500 Türk öldürüldü, 130 Türk köyü yakıldı, 25 bin Türk evlerini terk etmek zorunda kaldı.

[In 1963, EOKA supporters introduced a new ethnic cleansing plan and in these attacks 500 Turks were killed, 130 Turkish villages were burned and 25 thousand Turks had to abandon their houses]

This is what people in Turkey are being told. I have a simple question:

Is Adnan Tink's claim that 130 Turkish villages were burned in 1963 true or false?

In connection with this, if you believe that Adnan Tink's above claim is false, I have a second question:

Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat

A slight correction Zan. The main living quarters of our house remains intact. What has disappeared were the stables, the garage (where the cart was stored), the 'hanay' and outside buildinds. These were constructed of kerpic/mud-bricks, which need maintenance of the plaster covering them. Needless to say the stone mosque disappeared completely. Where one expects a mud-brick/kerpic building to fall into disrepair, not so the stone built mosque. This was pulled down soon after the TC residents left in 1964.
I am sorry of any confusion. .

Perhaps Tim is as happy as me to receive a clear picture Deniz.....Thank you....You know I saw some big gun brackets that are still attached to the top of Girne castle that I presume were there to ward off the Turkish peace process...If we remove them do you think that get the world to believe that 1974 didn't happen......I think this must be a top priority of the TRNC..

[Get Real!]

I think this thread has run long enough for TCs to provide credible evidence of “103 villages burned down”, in fact we don’t even have any evidence for 3 villages burnt to the ground let alone 103!

Zan, let it go and as Tim said… by sensationalizing and/or inventing stuff you do your people a great injustice because the real suffering gets demoted and lost among all the fabrications.

Any further contributions here are a waste of time! Let’s move on people…

[zan]

I think this thread has run long enough for TCs to provide credible evidence of “103 villages burned down”, in fact we don’t even have any evidence for 3 villages burnt to the ground let alone 103!

Zan, let it go and as Tim said… by sensationalizing and/or inventing stuff you do your people a great injustice because the real suffering gets demoted and lost among all the fabrications.

Any further contributions here are a waste of time! Let’s move on people…

Unless you are the owner of this Forum then false and premature victory gestures from you are a waste of time. You have not changed a bit from the old premature ejaculatory GR. The news reports that I posted at least two years ago shut you up then and will again. Just as soon as I feel better from this flu and can be bothered to play your stupid games. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of icemans signature and not argue with idiots but then again you have prospered on that from TCs.....Perhaps its time that all TCs come down to your level and argue just for the sake of it. I gave you Makarios' speech in which he himself talked about the many Greeks killed by the Junta and that many more where to be killed and you did not even accept that....For us TCs to see you squirm is great.......It just reinforces our view that you will not accept anything that is true.....We do not believe you GR...Get it into your head...You are fooling no one but yourselves. The TCs are becoming stronger and more unified because of you. When that unity is complete then your lies will be exposed on an even greater scale.......My hope is hat a greater audience is allowed to hear the truths when all your efforts end up in the EU courts and an open discussion........Keep pressing buddy.......You might even get thanked for your great work....

[DT.]

I think this thread has run long enough for TCs to provide credible evidence of “103 villages burned down”, in fact we don’t even have any evidence for 3 villages burnt to the ground let alone 103!

Zan, let it go and as Tim said… by sensationalizing and/or inventing stuff you do your people a great injustice because the real suffering gets demoted and lost among all the fabrications.

Any further contributions here are a waste of time! Let’s move on people…

Unless you are the owner of this Forum then false and premature victory gestures from you are a waste of time. You have not changed a bit from the old premature ejaculatory GR. The news reports that I posted at least two years ago shut you up then and will again. Just as soon as I feel better from this flu and can be bothered to play your stupid games. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of icemans signature and not argue with idiots but then again you have prospered on that from TCs.....Perhaps its time that all TCs come down to your level and argue just for the sake of it. I gave you Makarios' speech in which he himself talked about the many Greeks killed by the Junta and that many more where to be killed and you did not even accept that....For us TCs to see you squirm is great.......It just reinforces our view that you will not accept anything that is true.....We do not believe you GR...Get it into your head...You are fooling no one but yourselves. The TCs are becoming stronger and more unified because of you. When that unity is complete then your lies will be exposed on an even greater scale.......My hope is hat a greater audience is allowed to hear the truths when all your efforts end up in the EU courts and an open discussion........Keep pressing buddy.......You might even get thanked for your great work....

Strong and unified TC's??

More like rare and emigrating. Now if its settlers you mean then hell yeah! THose dudes know how to stick together, make sure you speak in the right accent when over there Zan cause one of them might get offended.

[zan]

I think this thread has run long enough for TCs to provide credible evidence of “103 villages burned down”, in fact we don’t even have any evidence for 3 villages burnt to the ground let alone 103!

Zan, let it go and as Tim said… by sensationalizing and/or inventing stuff you do your people a great injustice because the real suffering gets demoted and lost among all the fabrications.

Any further contributions here are a waste of time! Let’s move on people…

Unless you are the owner of this Forum then false and premature victory gestures from you are a waste of time. You have not changed a bit from the old premature ejaculatory GR. The news reports that I posted at least two years ago shut you up then and will again. Just as soon as I feel better from this flu and can be bothered to play your stupid games. Perhaps I should take a leaf out of icemans signature and not argue with idiots but then again you have prospered on that from TCs.....Perhaps its time that all TCs come down to your level and argue just for the sake of it. I gave you Makarios' speech in which he himself talked about the many Greeks killed by the Junta and that many more where to be killed and you did not even accept that....For us TCs to see you squirm is great.......It just reinforces our view that you will not accept anything that is true.....We do not believe you GR...Get it into your head...You are fooling no one but yourselves. The TCs are becoming stronger and more unified because of you. When that unity is complete then your lies will be exposed on an even greater scale.......My hope is hat a greater audience is allowed to hear the truths when all your efforts end up in the EU courts and an open discussion........Keep pressing buddy.......You might even get thanked for your great work....

Strong and unified TC's??

More like rare and emigrating. Now if its settlers you mean then hell yeah! THose dudes know how to stick together, make sure you speak in the right accent when over there Zan cause one of them might get offended.

And you make sure that you bury your ex-president in a Greek flag so you do not offend your ENOSIS brothers........Keep those blue berets well fashioned mate...You might be able to wear them soon when we have partition...You will not have to hide then..

[bill cobbett]

Can I just say that with the usual porky-telling exception, I was pretty impressed with the standard of debate on this thread. People were going to some lengths in going out and trying to find and post evidence and to debate the evidence sensibly. The fact that there was no evidence to support the contention that '00s of tc villages were burnt down is evidence in its own right.

Er, with your leave GR may I borrow that stamp please?