Cyprus-Forum.com

[samarkeolog]

The article (for Samarkeolog's benefit). Sorry, it is in Turkish....

Brilliant, thanks. And now to register!

[samarkeolog]

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System says that Greek Cypriot refugees live in 5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes. (It doesn't say how many Turkish Cypriot homes/workplaces there are in total.) 5,708 houses would be homes for about 28,540 Turkish Cypriots. S/5950 said that nearly 1,000 homes (for nearly 5,000 people) were destroyed. Together, they're still only about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (because some of the 1,000 destroyed homes were Greek Cypriots').

But I don't think either Afrika or the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System counts the homes in the villages turned into farms (like Souskiou, Petrophani...) or bulldozed into the ground (like Ayios Epiphanios, Pano Koutraphas...).

Neither of them is counting villages of empty Turkish Cypriot homes (like most of Androlikou or all of Yerovasa...). (I think most or all of the places Afrika's 8,357 places are new buildings on (agricultural or open) Turkish Cypriot land, not new buildings on top of old Turkish Cypriot homes.)

If about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes were settled by Greek Cypriot refugees or destroyed by September 1964, that means about 17,000-19,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (about 3,400-3,800 houses) are empty, reused in a different way (for example, as a farm), or damaged or destroyed since September 1964 (like Goshi). But the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System doesn't say what has happened to those 3,400-3,800 Turkish Cypriot homes...

(Very, very few Turkish Cypriots are left in southern Cyprus, so the total number of Turkish Cypriot homes in the South must be about 10,000, enough for nearly 50,000 people (if that's the total number of Turkish Cypriot refugees).)

(I edited it to change the number from 32,000 to 33,000, then the rest of the numbers to match.)

[Get Real!]

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System says that Greek Cypriot refugees live in 5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes. (It doesn't say how many Turkish Cypriot homes/workplaces there are in total.) 5,708 houses would be homes for about 28,540 Turkish Cypriots. S/5950 said that nearly 1,000 homes (for nearly 5,000 people) were destroyed. Together, they're still only about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (because some of the 1,000 destroyed homes were Greek Cypriots').

But I don't think either Afrika or the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System counts the homes in the villages turned into farms (like Souskiou, Petrophani...) or bulldozed into the ground (like Ayios Epiphanios, Pano Koutraphas...).

Neither of them is counting villages of empty Turkish Cypriot homes (like most of Androlikou or all of Yerovasa...). (I think most or all of the places Afrika's 8,357 places are new buildings on (agricultural or open) Turkish Cypriot land, not new buildings on top of old Turkish Cypriot homes.)

If about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes were settled by Greek Cypriot refugees or destroyed by September 1964, that means about 17,000-19,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (about 3,400-3,800 houses) are empty, reused in a different way (for example, as a farm), or damaged or destroyed since September 1964 (like Goshi). But the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System doesn't say what has happened to those 3,400-3,800 Turkish Cypriot homes...

(Very, very few Turkish Cypriots are left in southern Cyprus, so the total number of Turkish Cypriot homes in the South must be about 10,000, enough for nearly 50,000 people (if that's the total number of Turkish Cypriot refugees).)

(I edited it to change the number from 32,000 to 33,000, then the rest of the numbers to match.)

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

[denizaksulu]

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System says that Greek Cypriot refugees live in 5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes. (It doesn't say how many Turkish Cypriot homes/workplaces there are in total.) 5,708 houses would be homes for about 28,540 Turkish Cypriots. S/5950 said that nearly 1,000 homes (for nearly 5,000 people) were destroyed. Together, they're still only about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (because some of the 1,000 destroyed homes were Greek Cypriots').

But I don't think either Afrika or the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System counts the homes in the villages turned into farms (like Souskiou, Petrophani...) or bulldozed into the ground (like Ayios Epiphanios, Pano Koutraphas...).

Neither of them is counting villages of empty Turkish Cypriot homes (like most of Androlikou or all of Yerovasa...). (I think most or all of the places Afrika's 8,357 places are new buildings on (agricultural or open) Turkish Cypriot land, not new buildings on top of old Turkish Cypriot homes.)

If about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes were settled by Greek Cypriot refugees or destroyed by September 1964, that means about 17,000-19,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (about 3,400-3,800 houses) are empty, reused in a different way (for example, as a farm), or damaged or destroyed since September 1964 (like Goshi). But the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System doesn't say what has happened to those 3,400-3,800 Turkish Cypriot homes...

(Very, very few Turkish Cypriots are left in southern Cyprus, so the total number of Turkish Cypriot homes in the South must be about 10,000, enough for nearly 50,000 people (if that's the total number of Turkish Cypriot refugees).)

(I edited it to change the number from 32,000 to 33,000, then the rest of the numbers to match.)

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

Give samarkealog a chance GR. I am sure your turn will come. I must say he has patience. I bet he has worn out his Abacus.

[Get Real!]

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System says that Greek Cypriot refugees live in 5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes. (It doesn't say how many Turkish Cypriot homes/workplaces there are in total.) 5,708 houses would be homes for about 28,540 Turkish Cypriots. S/5950 said that nearly 1,000 homes (for nearly 5,000 people) were destroyed. Together, they're still only about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (because some of the 1,000 destroyed homes were Greek Cypriots').

But I don't think either Afrika or the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System counts the homes in the villages turned into farms (like Souskiou, Petrophani...) or bulldozed into the ground (like Ayios Epiphanios, Pano Koutraphas...).

Neither of them is counting villages of empty Turkish Cypriot homes (like most of Androlikou or all of Yerovasa...). (I think most or all of the places Afrika's 8,357 places are new buildings on (agricultural or open) Turkish Cypriot land, not new buildings on top of old Turkish Cypriot homes.)

If about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes were settled by Greek Cypriot refugees or destroyed by September 1964, that means about 17,000-19,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (about 3,400-3,800 houses) are empty, reused in a different way (for example, as a farm), or damaged or destroyed since September 1964 (like Goshi). But the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System doesn't say what has happened to those 3,400-3,800 Turkish Cypriot homes...

(Very, very few Turkish Cypriots are left in southern Cyprus, so the total number of Turkish Cypriot homes in the South must be about 10,000, enough for nearly 50,000 people (if that's the total number of Turkish Cypriot refugees).)

(I edited it to change the number from 32,000 to 33,000, then the rest of the numbers to match.)

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

Give samarkealog a chance GR. I am sure your turn will come. I must say he has patience. I bet he has worn out his Abacus.

I'm still trying to figure out what he's getting at...

We all know that as a result of July 74 around 50-55k TCs fled north so if we divide that by 4-5 family members p/household we'll end up with 10-12k homes... ok, now what?

[samarkeolog]

The Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System says that Greek Cypriot refugees live in 5,708 Turkish Cypriot homes. (It doesn't say how many Turkish Cypriot homes/workplaces there are in total.) 5,708 houses would be homes for about 28,540 Turkish Cypriots. S/5950 said that nearly 1,000 homes (for nearly 5,000 people) were destroyed. Together, they're still only about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (because some of the 1,000 destroyed homes were Greek Cypriots').

But I don't think either Afrika or the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System counts the homes in the villages turned into farms (like Souskiou, Petrophani...) or bulldozed into the ground (like Ayios Epiphanios, Pano Koutraphas...).

Neither of them is counting villages of empty Turkish Cypriot homes (like most of Androlikou or all of Yerovasa...). (I think most or all of the places Afrika's 8,357 places are new buildings on (agricultural or open) Turkish Cypriot land, not new buildings on top of old Turkish Cypriot homes.)

If about 33,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes were settled by Greek Cypriot refugees or destroyed by September 1964, that means about 17,000-19,000 Turkish Cypriots' homes (about 3,400-3,800 houses) are empty, reused in a different way (for example, as a farm), or damaged or destroyed since September 1964 (like Goshi). But the Turkish Cypriot Properties Management System doesn't say what has happened to those 3,400-3,800 Turkish Cypriot homes...

(Very, very few Turkish Cypriots are left in southern Cyprus, so the total number of Turkish Cypriot homes in the South must be about 10,000, enough for nearly 50,000 people (if that's the total number of Turkish Cypriot refugees).)

(I edited it to change the number from 32,000 to 33,000, then the rest of the numbers to match.)

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

Give samarkealog a chance GR. I am sure your turn will come. I must say he has patience. I bet he has worn out his Abacus.

Yeah, roughly speaking, I'm working chronologically.

I'm still trying to figure out what he's getting at...

We all know that as a result of July 74 around 50-55k TCs fled north so if we divide that by 4-5 family members p/household we'll end up with 10-12k homes... ok, now what?

Well, first, I've seen Greek Cypriot figures that talk about 65,000 Turkish Cypriot refugees. Like everything else, there are disagreements over the facts, even over the ones as basic as that. So it helps to try to work out what the facts are or could be.

Second, what I'm getting at, or trying to get at, is how many of the places that embodied Cypriot community were damaged or destroyed, how, why and by whom. I think knowing the history can help restore peace and rebuild community. For a lot of these places, the only thing left of them is the memory of them, and I'm trying to work out which parts of which memories are true, to correct the mistaken or malicious stories.

I know GR!'s memory is perfect - which is why I'm sure he remembers me talking about TMT's attacks upon Turkish Cypriot community places to provoke attacks against Greek Cypriots, and about the occupation's destruction of Greek Cypriots' homes in Rizokarpaso - but others' memories can be terrible. I, for instance, cannot remember whether I have discussed the occupation's destruction of Greek Cypriot homes in Gypsou/Akova, Milia/Yıldırım, Pigi/Alaniçi, Knodara/Gönendere and Genagra/Nergisli yet. But if I haven't discussed it yet, I will.

I naively thought that showing I had visited some of these places and documented the destruction of Greek Cypriot homes, churches and cemeteries would win me the trust of some Greek Cypriots. Thankfully, the guy who calls himself my "Cypriot father" is Greek Cypriot, so I know some Greek Cypriots do trust me and my work.

I hope that by recording these places and their stories, I can help to preserve the memory of Cypriot community, and so help to preserve the possibility of the reconstruction of Cypriot community. One of the reasons nationalist extremists destroyed homes, churches, mosques and coffee-shops was to destroy the possibility of Cypriot community.

Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots couldn't drink together in a kafeneion if that cafe had been burned down. They couldn't stand between the church and mosque and chat while their children played if the church or the mosque had been bombed. They couldn't gossip over the fence or go next door for coffee if next door had been bulldozed into the ground and its owners made into refugees hundreds of kilometres away.

By showing what existed before and away from nationalist extremists, I can show what can exist again in the future. And by showing what was misused/damaged/destroyed for other reasons - out of poverty, or to protect a religious place, or to prevent foreign settlement, or whatever - I can help to rehumanise the "others", so that the ones who fear or hate them can see that they don't need to.

Just today, I heard another - true - story. One Turkish Cypriot's home was destroyed by a Greek Cypriot neighbour. She was told by another Greek Cypriot neighbour who had destroyed it. So, when she returned to her village after the war of 1974, she took the home of the person who had destroyed hers. Is that the kind of story you wanted me to tell? One where you sympathise with the Turkish Cypriot living in the Greek Cypriot home?

Turkish Cypriot nationalists could misunderstand the story, and think that it justifies partition and settlement in others' homes. They would forget that Turkish Cypriot extremists destroyed Greek Cypriots' homes too. Greek Cypriot nationalists could ignore the story, and think that it makes the Greek Cypriot the villain. They would forget that the Greek Cypriot is the hero, the Good Samaritan. The Turkish Cypriot is the victim, but the villain is just a bastard, and there are bastards everywhere.

[samarkeolog]

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

I would also say that, although the Greek Cypriot side's claims include uncertainties and mistakes and lies, what happened to Greek Cypriots is better known. It's easier to see a Turkish family living in a Greek Cypriot home or a church with a minaret on top, than it is to see a Turkish Cypriot home or mosque that has disappeared.

It's also easier to read any of the number of Greek or Greek Cypriot propaganda exercises, published in glossy coffee table books in different languages. It's simply easier to find Greek Cypriot sources, because Turkish Cypriot ones are published by an unrecognised regime and are not stocked in many libraries outside it.

Look at the list of some of the sources I'm using. (This is just the ones I have stored in a note on an Excel file. You don't need to read them, just look at the authors/publishers/subjects.)

Anastvatz. 2007: "Pilgrimage to an Armenian monastery in occupied Cyprus". Huliq, 10th May. Available at: http://www.huliq.com/21264/pilgrimage-to-an-armenian-monastery-in-occupied-cyprus

Bahceli, S. 2007: "'Environmental and cultural massacre' around Akanthou". Cyprus Mail, 12th January. Available at: http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=30061&archive=1

http://www.cyprustemples.com of the CCEAA and CCTA (Cyprus Civil Engineers' and Architects' Association and Chamber of Cyprus Turkish Architects).

Chotzakoglou, Ch G. 2006: "Christian mosaics and mural paintings in the Occupied Areas of Cyprus: Preliminary report on their condition". In Chrysostomides, J and Dendrinos, Ch (Eds.). "Sweet land..." Lectures on the history and culture of Cyprus, 101-164. Camberley: Porphyrogenitus Ltd.

Chotzakoglou, Ch G. 2008: Religious monuments in Turkish-occupied Cyprus: Evidence and acts of continuous destruction. Lefkosia: Museum of the Holy Monastery of Kykkos.

Chrysostomos I, Archbishop. 1997: "Foreword". In Papageorgiou, A and Georgiou-Hadjitofi, T, (Eds.). The stolen treasures of Cyprus, 1. Den Haag: Sdu Grafisch Bedrijf.

Davezac, B. 1991: "Introduction". In Carr, A W and Morocco, L J, (Eds.). A Byzantine masterpiece recovered, the thirteenth-century murals of Lysi, Cyprus, 7-14. Austin: University of Texas Press.

Denktaş, R R. 2004: The Cyprus Problem: What it is - how can it be solved? Lefkoşa: Cyprus Research and Publishing Centre (CYREP).

Erçakıca, H. 2007: " Erçakıca 'Mülkiyet Sorununu Kıbrıs Sorunundan Ayırmak Ve Sadece Rumların Sorunu Diye Lanse Etmek İnsafsızlık'". Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Cumhurbaşkanlığı, 13th June. Available at: http://www.kktcb.eu/index.php?tpl=show_announ&id=84

Georgiou, A K. 1999: Kalopsida: The living past of a Turkish occupied village of Cyprus. London: A. K. Georgiou.

Hadjisavvas, S. 1991: Katavoles I: Archaiologiki episkopisi 20 katechomenon simera horion tis eparchias Ammochostou. Lefkosia: Kentrou Meleton Ieras Monis Kykkou kai Tmimatos Archaiotiton. [Χατζησαββας, Σ. 1991: Καταβολές Ι: Αρχαιολογική επισχόπηση 20 κατεχομένων σήμερα χωριών της επαρχίας Αμμοχώστου. Λευκωσία: Κέντρου Μελετών Ιεράς Μονής Κύκκου και Τμήματος Αρχαιοτήτων.]

Hadjisavvas, S. 2001: “The destruction of the archaeological heritage of Cyprus”. In Brodie, N, Doole, J and Renfrew, C, (Eds.). Trade in illicit antiquities: The destruction of the world’s archaeological heritage, 133-140. Cambridge: McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research.

Hagiographer, D, Monk. 2008: The crucified holy island: The course of Cyprus’s violated culture – the course into the EU. Nicosia: CAN Publish. [Published ‘under the auspices of the Cultural Services of the Ministry of Education and Culture’.]

Hare, A P. 1974: Cyprus - conflict and its resolution. Cape Town: University of Cape Town.

Hein, E, Jakovljević, A and Kleidt, B. 1998: Cyprus: Byzantine churches and monasteries – mosaics and frescoes. Ratingen: Melina Press.

Iera Mitropolis Kyrineias. 2006: Odoiporiko sta Christianika mnimeia tis mitropolitikis. Lefkosia: i Iera Synodos tis Ekklisias tis Kyprou kai i Elliniki Trapeza. [Ίερά Μητρόπολις Κυρηνείας. 2006: Οδοιπορικό στα χριστιανικά μνημεία της μητροπολιτικής. Λευκωσία: η Ιερά Σύνοδος της Εκκλησίας της Κύπρου και η Ελληνική Τράπεζα.]

Jansen, M. 2005: War and cultural heritage: Cyprus after the 1974 Turkish invasion. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press....

Karaokçu, H. 2003a: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 1”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=836

Karaokçu, H. 2003b: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 2”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=837

Karaokçu, H. 2003c: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 3”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=838

Karaokçu, H. 2004: "Yagmuralan villagers want their village back". Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Deputy Prime Ministry and Ministry of Foreign Affairs Public Relations Department [Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Başbakan Yardımcılığı ve Dışişleri Bakanlığı Tanıtma Dairesi]. Available at: [url=http://www.trncinfo.com/TANITMADAIRESI/2002/ENGLISH/SOUTHCYPRUS/koylerenglish.htm
]http://www.trncinfo.com/TANITMADAIRESI/2002/ENGLISH/SOUTHCYPRUS/koylerenglish.htm[/url]

Kitchener, H H. 1885: Map of Nicosia. Nicosia: British Administration Department of Lands and Surveys.

Knapp, A B and Antoniadou, S. 1998: “Archaeology, politics and the cultural heritage of Cyprus”. In Meskell, L, (Ed.). Archaeology under fire: Nationalism, politics and heritage in the Eastern Mediterranean and Middle East. London: Routledge....

Papageorgiou, A and Georgiou-Hadjitofi, T, (Eds.). 1997: The stolen treasures of Cyprus. Den Haag: Sdu Grafisch Bedrijf.

ROCDOA (Republic of Cyprus Department of Antiquities). 2007: "The looting of cultural heritage in occupied Cyprus". Republic of Cyprus Department of Antiquities, 2nd July. Available at: http://www.mcw.gov.cy/mcw/DA/DA.nsf/All/5C63072411078AB9C22572750055D67D?OpenDocument

ROCMFA (Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs). 2006a: "Destruction of cultural heritage". Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/cyprus07_en/cyprus07_en?OpenDocument

ROCMFA (Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs). 2006b: "Destruction of cultural heritage: Photo gallery". Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/All/B60B19FC25CB68B2C22571BC0035C224?OpenDocument

ROCPIO (Republic of Cyprus Press and Information Office). 1997: Flagellum Dei: The destruction of the cultural heritage in the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus. Nicosia: Republic of Cyprus Press and Information Office.

Shepard, M. 1987: Gandhi today: Mahatma Gandhi's successors. Arcata: Simple Productions.

TRNCMFADSCS and TRNCMNECDAM (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Defence Social and Cultural Section and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Ministry of National Education and Culture Department of Antiquities and Museums). 1986: Cultural heritage of Northern Cyprus: Its protection and preservation. Lefkoşa: TRNCPIO (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Public Information Office).

Van der Werff, Y. 1989: Information report on the cultural heritage of Cyprus (Doc. 6079). Brussels: Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

Walker, A M. 1984: "Enosis in Cyprus: Dhali, a case study". Middle East Journal, Volume 38, Number 3, 474-494.

Webster, G. 1999: Philia and Philiotes: Before and after 1974. Nicosia: The Society of Cypriot Studies.

Welin, G and Ekelund, C. 2004: The U.N. in Cyprus: Swedish peace-keeping operations, 1964-1993. London: C. Hurst and Co. Ltd.

Yüksel, D. 2007a: "Community-based eco-tourism potentials at the Dıpkarpaz National Park Area: Opportunities and threats". Paper presented at the International COnference on Environment: Survival and Sustainability, Nicosia, Cyprus, 19th-24th February. Available at: http://www.karpasia.net/ArticleESS2007conference.pdf

Yüksel, D. 2007b: "Community-based eco-tourism potentials at the Dıpkarpaz National Park Area: Opportunities and threats". PowerPoint of paper presented at the International Conference on Environment: Survival and Sustainability, Nicosia, Cyprus, 19th-24th February. Available at: http://www.karpasia.net/dervisyuksel1.pdf

That's about 22 sources aligned with southern Cyprus, against 6 or 7 aligned with northern Cyprus (with a few neutral or bicommunal). (I use Turkish Cypriot Derviş Yüksel for his documentation of the destruction of Apagu Church in Shelones-Banaia.) And as I mentioned before, the Greek Cypriot side has books, academic and diplomatic support; the Turkish Cypriot side has journalists' articles on websites and a couple of official pieces of propaganda like the Greek Cypriots' flagellum dei. (I haven't got the Turkish Cypriot side's recent effort, erasing the past yet.)

So part of the reason you feel I'm going on about what happened to the Turkish Cypriots is because I've already heard, and seen proof, of what happened to Greek Cypriots. But I need to talk to people and ask questions to find out what happened to Turkish Cypriots. (That's especially true because the Turkish Cypriot propaganda is unbelievable, like the claim of "hundreds" of burned villages...)

I wouldn't need to ask about the destruction of Turkish Cypriot mosques if the Greek Cypriot side were honest. But the book the administration jointly publishes with the Association of Cypriot Archaeologists is bullshit. It doesn't admit that even one mosque was destroyed. It even takes the time to show desecrated churches in that book, too. And even when it shows desecrated churches, it still isn't willing to admit that some mosques were desecrated. If it were the government of all Cypriots, it wouldn't lie about the suffering of its own citizens. But it does. So I have to find out for myself.

Hopefully, when I present desecrated and destroyed churches and mosques together, Greek Cypriots' and Turkish Cypriots' damaged and destroyed homes together, it will challenge both administrations' propaganda and show unsympathetic Cypriots that they should sympathise with each other and challenge the nationalists who destroyed their country.

[denizaksulu]

When you're ready to start counting the GC homes, farmland, and businesses, give me a shout and I'll lend you a CRAY computer to do the number crunching for you...

I would also say that, although the Greek Cypriot side's claims include uncertainties and mistakes and lies, what happened to Greek Cypriots is better known. It's easier to see a Turkish family living in a Greek Cypriot home or a church with a minaret on top, than it is to see a Turkish Cypriot home or mosque that has disappeared.

It's also easier to read any of the number of Greek or Greek Cypriot propaganda exercises, published in glossy coffee table books in different languages. It's simply easier to find Greek Cypriot sources, because Turkish Cypriot ones are published by an unrecognised regime and are not stocked in many libraries outside it.

Look at the list of some of the sources I'm using. (This is just the ones I have stored in a note on an Excel file. You don't need to read them, just look at the authors/publishers/subjects.)

Anastvatz. 2007: "Pilgrimage to an Armenian monastery in occupied Cyprus". Huliq, 10th May. Available at: http://www.huliq.com/21264/pilgrimage-to-an-armenian-monastery-in-occupied-cyprus

Bahceli, S. 2007: "'Environmental and cultural massacre' around Akanthou". Cyprus Mail, 12th January. Available at: http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=30061&archive=1

http://www.cyprustemples.com of the CCEAA and CCTA (Cyprus Civil Engineers' and Architects' Association and Chamber of Cyprus Turkish Architects).

Chotzakoglou, Ch G. 2006: "Christian mosaics and mural paintings in the Occupied Areas of Cyprus: Preliminary report on their condition". In Chrysostomides, J and Dendrinos, Ch (Eds.). "Sweet land..." Lectures on the history and culture of Cyprus, 101-164. Camberley: Porphyrogenitus Ltd.

Chotzakoglou, Ch G. 2008: Religious monuments in Turkish-occupied Cyprus: Evidence and acts of continuous destruction. Lefkosia: Museum of the Holy Monastery of Kykkos.

Chrysostomos I, Archbishop. 1997: "Foreword". In Papageorgiou, A and Georgiou-Hadjitofi, T, (Eds.). The stolen treasures of Cyprus, 1. Den Haag: Sdu Grafisch Bedrijf.

Davezac, B. 1991: "Introduction". In Carr, A W and Morocco, L J, (Eds.). A Byzantine masterpiece recovered, the thirteenth-century murals of Lysi, Cyprus, 7-14. Austin: University of Texas Press.

Denktaş, R R. 2004: The Cyprus Problem: What it is - how can it be solved? Lefkoşa: Cyprus Research and Publishing Centre (CYREP).

Erçakıca, H. 2007: " Erçakıca 'Mülkiyet Sorununu Kıbrıs Sorunundan Ayırmak Ve Sadece Rumların Sorunu Diye Lanse Etmek İnsafsızlık'". Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Cumhurbaşkanlığı, 13th June. Available at: http://www.kktcb.eu/index.php?tpl=show_announ&id=84

Georgiou, A K. 1999: Kalopsida: The living past of a Turkish occupied village of Cyprus. London: A. K. Georgiou.

Hadjisavvas, S. 1991: Katavoles I: Archaiologiki episkopisi 20 katechomenon simera horion tis eparchias Ammochostou. Lefkosia: Kentrou Meleton Ieras Monis Kykkou kai Tmimatos Archaiotiton. [Χατζησαββας, Σ. 1991: Καταβολές Ι: Αρχαιολογική επισχόπηση 20 κατεχομένων σήμερα χωριών της επαρχίας Αμμοχώστου. Λευκωσία: Κέντρου Μελετών Ιεράς Μονής Κύκκου και Τμήματος Αρχαιοτήτων.]

Hadjisavvas, S. 2001: “The destruction of the archaeological heritage of Cyprus”. In Brodie, N, Doole, J and Renfrew, C, (Eds.). Trade in illicit antiquities: The destruction of the world’s archaeological heritage, 133-140. Cambridge: McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research.

Hagiographer, D, Monk. 2008: The crucified holy island: The course of Cyprus’s violated culture – the course into the EU. Nicosia: CAN Publish. [Published ‘under the auspices of the Cultural Services of the Ministry of Education and Culture’.]

Hare, A P. 1974: Cyprus - conflict and its resolution. Cape Town: University of Cape Town.

Hein, E, Jakovljević, A and Kleidt, B. 1998: Cyprus: Byzantine churches and monasteries – mosaics and frescoes. Ratingen: Melina Press.

Iera Mitropolis Kyrineias. 2006: Odoiporiko sta Christianika mnimeia tis mitropolitikis. Lefkosia: i Iera Synodos tis Ekklisias tis Kyprou kai i Elliniki Trapeza. [Ίερά Μητρόπολις Κυρηνείας. 2006: Οδοιπορικό στα χριστιανικά μνημεία της μητροπολιτικής. Λευκωσία: η Ιερά Σύνοδος της Εκκλησίας της Κύπρου και η Ελληνική Τράπεζα.]

Jansen, M. 2005: War and cultural heritage: Cyprus after the 1974 Turkish invasion. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press....

Karaokçu, H. 2003a: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 1”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=836

Karaokçu, H. 2003b: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 2”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=837

Karaokçu, H. 2003c: “The present conditions of Turkish Cypriot villages in south Cyprus 3”. Diplomatic Observer. Available at: http://www.diplomaticobserver.com/news_read.asp?id=838

Karaokçu, H. 2004: "Yagmuralan villagers want their village back". Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Deputy Prime Ministry and Ministry of Foreign Affairs Public Relations Department [Kuzey Kıbrıs Türk Cumhuriyeti Başbakan Yardımcılığı ve Dışişleri Bakanlığı Tanıtma Dairesi]. Available at: [url=http://www.trncinfo.com/TANITMADAIRESI/2002/ENGLISH/SOUTHCYPRUS/koylerenglish.htm
]http://www.trncinfo.com/TANITMADAIRESI/2002/ENGLISH/SOUTHCYPRUS/koylerenglish.htm[/url]

Kitchener, H H. 1885: Map of Nicosia. Nicosia: British Administration Department of Lands and Surveys.

Knapp, A B and Antoniadou, S. 1998: “Archaeology, politics and the cultural heritage of Cyprus”. In Meskell, L, (Ed.). Archaeology under fire: Nationalism, politics and heritage in the Eastern Mediterranean and Middle East. London: Routledge....

Papageorgiou, A and Georgiou-Hadjitofi, T, (Eds.). 1997: The stolen treasures of Cyprus. Den Haag: Sdu Grafisch Bedrijf.

ROCDOA (Republic of Cyprus Department of Antiquities). 2007: "The looting of cultural heritage in occupied Cyprus". Republic of Cyprus Department of Antiquities, 2nd July. Available at: http://www.mcw.gov.cy/mcw/DA/DA.nsf/All/5C63072411078AB9C22572750055D67D?OpenDocument

ROCMFA (Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs). 2006a: "Destruction of cultural heritage". Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/cyprus07_en/cyprus07_en?OpenDocument

ROCMFA (Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs). 2006b: "Destruction of cultural heritage: Photo gallery". Republic of Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2006.nsf/All/B60B19FC25CB68B2C22571BC0035C224?OpenDocument

ROCPIO (Republic of Cyprus Press and Information Office). 1997: Flagellum Dei: The destruction of the cultural heritage in the Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus. Nicosia: Republic of Cyprus Press and Information Office.

Shepard, M. 1987: Gandhi today: Mahatma Gandhi's successors. Arcata: Simple Productions.

TRNCMFADSCS and TRNCMNECDAM (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Defence Social and Cultural Section and Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Ministry of National Education and Culture Department of Antiquities and Museums). 1986: Cultural heritage of Northern Cyprus: Its protection and preservation. Lefkoşa: TRNCPIO (Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus Public Information Office).

Van der Werff, Y. 1989: Information report on the cultural heritage of Cyprus (Doc. 6079). Brussels: Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe.

Walker, A M. 1984: "Enosis in Cyprus: Dhali, a case study". Middle East Journal, Volume 38, Number 3, 474-494.

Webster, G. 1999: Philia and Philiotes: Before and after 1974. Nicosia: The Society of Cypriot Studies.

Welin, G and Ekelund, C. 2004: The U.N. in Cyprus: Swedish peace-keeping operations, 1964-1993. London: C. Hurst and Co. Ltd.

Yüksel, D. 2007a: "Community-based eco-tourism potentials at the Dıpkarpaz National Park Area: Opportunities and threats". Paper presented at the International COnference on Environment: Survival and Sustainability, Nicosia, Cyprus, 19th-24th February. Available at: http://www.karpasia.net/ArticleESS2007conference.pdf

Yüksel, D. 2007b: "Community-based eco-tourism potentials at the Dıpkarpaz National Park Area: Opportunities and threats". PowerPoint of paper presented at the International Conference on Environment: Survival and Sustainability, Nicosia, Cyprus, 19th-24th February. Available at: http://www.karpasia.net/dervisyuksel1.pdf

That's about 22 sources aligned with southern Cyprus, against 6 or 7 aligned with northern Cyprus (with a few neutral or bicommunal). (I use Turkish Cypriot Derviş Yüksel for his documentation of the destruction of Apagu Church in Shelones-Banaia.) And as I mentioned before, the Greek Cypriot side has books, academic and diplomatic support; the Turkish Cypriot side has journalists' articles on websites and a couple of official pieces of propaganda like the Greek Cypriots' flagellum dei. (I haven't got the Turkish Cypriot side's recent effort, erasing the past yet.)

So part of the reason you feel I'm going on about what happened to the Turkish Cypriots is because I've already heard, and seen proof, of what happened to Greek Cypriots. But I need to talk to people and ask questions to find out what happened to Turkish Cypriots. (That's especially true because the Turkish Cypriot propaganda is unbelievable, like the claim of "hundreds" of burned villages...)

I wouldn't need to ask about the destruction of Turkish Cypriot mosques if the Greek Cypriot side were honest. But the book the administration jointly publishes with the Association of Cypriot Archaeologists is bullshit. It doesn't admit that even one mosque was destroyed. It even takes the time to show desecrated churches in that book, too. And even when it shows desecrated churches, it still isn't willing to admit that some mosques were desecrated. If it were the government of all Cypriots, it wouldn't lie about the suffering of its own citizens. But it does. So I have to find out for myself.

Hopefully, when I present desecrated and destroyed churches and mosques together, Greek Cypriots' and Turkish Cypriots' damaged and destroyed homes together, it will challenge both administrations' propaganda and show unsympathetic Cypriots that they should sympathise with each other and challenge the nationalists who destroyed their country.

Well done samarkeolog. Some of the links from what I can see are very interesting. Added to my favourits already.

[Tim Drayton]

In the interests of complying with forum rules, I here post a translation of the Afrika article by Turgut Afşaroğlu first published on 5 January 2009, whose original text I posted in this thread yesterday:

Lord, what a stupid, what a wretched community we are. It is probably impossible to find another community on this globe that fears the law as much as we do. Persistently and stubbornly we move outside international law, and at the same time are afraid.
***
International law says: - An international agreement, for example the 1960 Cyprus Agreements, retains its validity until a new one is concluded in its place. What did we do after 1974? We imagined that the Republic of Cyprus did not exist. Pushing to one side the fact that the guarantors’ sole right was to restore the broken-down Constitutional order, we abandoned our rights in the Republic of Cyprus. Denktash was elected Republic of Cyprus Vice-President in 1973. He had the right to continue in this capacity until 1978. However, no sooner had the TCFS been founded in 1975 than he abandoned this post. It is unclear whom he asked, from whom he obtained authority. If he had remained in this post until the end, he would have been able to veto the Republic of Cyprus’s unilateral EU entry and the Greek Cypriot side would have been unable to accede to the EU on its own.
***
International law says: - According to the Geneva Convention, moving people to a territory that has been taken by armed force, and granting them citizenship, is a crime. What did we do? First, in the name of agricultural labour we moved people from Turkey, then we gave them citizenship and the right to vote. What was the result? Turkish Cypriots have been turned into a minority in their own region and have been deprived of their political will. The elected have become Ankara’s puppets.
***
International law says: - You cannot hand out title deeds as you wish for land or property that has been taken with armed force, as though it belonged to you. What did we do? We issued title deeds not only to Turkish Cypriots coming from the south, but also to Turks coming from the north. At this point, let me remind you: until the 1985 TRNC Constitution was adopted, only Usage Certificates were issued rather than title deeds. This was because we opposition Founding Assembly members at the time saw to it that, in accordance with international law, an article was placed in the 1975 TCFS Constitution: - Regardless of any other provision in this Constitution, immovable property abandoned by Greek Cypriots may not be transferred to any real person or corporate body. This article was removed from the 1985 TRNC Constitution and the mad rush to issue title deeds ensued.
***
First the Loizidou case, then the Aresti and Turkish Bank suits came in quick succession. We have lost all of these suits. You should be in no doubt that the Orams case will also result in our defeat. So what needs to be done? Initially, as Barış Mamalı has said, it is necessary to pay compensation immediately in the Orams case, without awaiting the European Court of Justice judgment and without leaving the English courts to deliberate on the matter. It is then necessary to start similar actions to the Orams case concerning construction without permission on Turkish Cypriot land in South Cyprus. Let me immediately pass on a piece of information: the Greek Cypriot side has not been outdone by us. Construction has taken place on a total of 8357 Turkish Cypriot plots without obtaining permission from the Turkish Cypriot owner. Not only the Orams case, but also suits like the Loizidou, Aresti and Turkish bank suits, create precedents for us. And in these matters we can file countersuits. It is like we said! Turks are afraid of the law.

[denizaksulu]

I was wondering if you would translate that article. Well written and truthful.