samarkeolog wrote:kafenes wrote:OK then, which ones were burnt down? Can you give a list?
As we've been through before, Patrick (1976: 78; 79) said that '[m]ost of the abandoned villages and quarters were ransacked and even burned by Greek-Cypriots', 'the abandoned homes were looted and often burned-out ruins', but didn't say which or where...
There is a very strange, unsatisfactory way of identifying places that were damaged, and that's finding buildings that were (claimed to have been) repaired by the Greek Cypriot administration.
It doesn't show the total number of damaged or destroyed buildings, or the total number of damaged or destroyed villages. There were 45 homes in Potamia, 30 in Nisou (Patrick, 1976: 283); 17 in Peristerona-Lefkosias, 54 in Skylloura and 8 in Agios Vasilios, but actually, both of those and Akaki, Arediou, Argaki, Agia Marina, Kato Deftera, Deneia, Dhyo Potami, Agioi Eliophotes, Orounda and Pano Koutraphas were 'abandoned and in ruins' (Patrick, 1976: 285), 1 home in either Neochorio, or Palaekythro, or Vitsada (Patrick, 1976: 289-290); 6 in Pano Lefkara (Patrick, 1976: 302); 1 in Asomatos (Patrick, 1976: 305); 103 in Mallia, 2 in Kilani, and 2 homes, 1 school and 1 mosque in Silikou (Patrick, 1976: 308). 1 school and 1 mosque in Pitargou (Patrick, 1976: 312). 'At Kithasi, the Christian Aid group rebuilt a number of damaged houses' (Patrick, 1976: 312). That totals 272 buildings - 268 homes, 2 schools and 2 mosques - in 23 villages.
Yet in Report S/5950, the
United Nations Security Council (1964: 48 - para. 180) stated that 'in 109 villages, most of them Turkish Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting', so a lot more villages than Patrick named must also have had damaged and destroyed homes, and that was only up to September 1964. (So by 1967, 1974, 1976, or later, there would have been many, many more damaged and destroyed places.)
(Apart from the villages, Patrick only said that '[m]uch of the quarter [of Ktima] has been vacated and stands in ruins' (Patrick, 1976: 310). The UNSC (1964: 48 - para. 180) clarified that, in Ktima, '38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially', and also noted that in Omorphita, '50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs'.)
Tim Drayton wrote:Richard Patrick's list is in your own words a "list of villages abandoned by Turkish Cypriots in 1963-1964". Even this statement is misleading because a great many of the villages listed were mixed.
Yes, sorry, I forgot to write out "villages and neighbourhoods" every single time I said anything. I assumed it was clear from everything else I said.
Tim Drayton wrote:I have checked the link you have quoted above (essentially it is the same story that I posted earlier, but taken from the TRNC Information Office's website).
Yeah, I have two links for it, but I used the TRNC PIO one, because it's a permanent address.
Güney Kıbrıs’ta yok edilen Türk köyleri şunlar:
[These are the destroyed Turkish villages in South Cyprus]
I am sorry, but I beg to differ as to the meaning of the Turkish expression "yok etmek". The definition of this expression given in the Turkish Language Institute dictionary is "varlığına son vermek, ortadan kaldırmak, ifna etmek, izale etmek". It is clear to me that this means "destroy" and refers to a deliberate wilful act. You seem to be confusing "yok etmek" with "yok olmak".
I don't think so. As far as I know, the difference between "yok etmek" and "yok olmak" is the difference between an action and a state of being, like a verb and an adjective. Once a place has been emptied/destroyed (yok edildi), it is an emptied/destroyed place (yok oldu).
I think the question is whether "a village" is "the people in a place" or "the buildings in a place". So, when some Turkish Cypriot villages were evacuated, they gave their southern village name to their northern village, because it wasn't just the people, but
the village that had moved. Similarly, then, Erçakıca might -
might - have meant that the human community had been ethnically cleansed or evacuated (or, yes, destroyed). Still, I did say I thought he was just being lazy and I do agree that it harms his credibility.
About five miles from where I live is the old abandoned village of Mathikoloni (there is a new Mathikoloni village about a mile away). It is in ruins. Before you start jumping to any conclusions, this was a 100% Greek Cypriot village. That's what happens to traditional Cypriot villages if they are abandoned. They gradually fall into a pile of rubble.
Yeah, I remember going to a village that had been abandoned for economic reasons and thinking that it was a different village evacuated because of the conflict. But I had missed the one I was trying to find because it had been so completely destroyed.
Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?
Of course, mistaken or malicious claims hinder peace and reconciliation. This is one of the reasons I'm trying to get solid information on churches, mosques and villages all together in one place.
Tim Drayton wrote:If I may quote from you post on Dec 28 6:45 pm on this very thread:
Certainly, the Turkish Cypriot homes of Agioi Eliophotes/Alifodez, Agios Epiphanios-Soleas/Aybifan, Arediou/Aredyu and Pano Koutraphas/Yukari Kurtbogan were destroyed in 1964 or 1974
you yourself are supporting my claim i.e. it was the Turkish Cypriot quarter of Agios Epiphanios that was destroyed and not the whole village.
I just said homes, rather than the village of A, the village of B, the neighbourhood of C, the village of D. The
village of Agioi Eliophotes was destroyed - except for the church. The
village of Agios Epiphanios-Soleas was destroyed. If there is a Greek Cypriot neighbourhood of Agios Epiphanios that I don't know of, please, tell me. Patrick (1976: 318) recorded it as completely abandoned. The only buildings I could see were the church and the National Guard post - and the ruins of the Turkish Cypriot homes underneath. The
village of Pano Koutraphas was destroyed. The Turkish Cypriot
neighbourhood of Arediou was damaged or destroyed (or bought by Greek Cypriots for veeery little money from their Turkish Cypriot refugee owners...).
(As for a lack of a list of names, etc., has the Greek Cypriot Administration or Church published the complete list of
520 converted, damaged or destroyed sites in the North? It should give the same amount of evidence as it asks from everyone else.)
But, to close, I would remind the people who are going on and on and on about the fact that there were not
hundreds of destroyed Turkish Cypriot villages, that there were
nearly a hundred. That is true and that is dreadful.
