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Postby zan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:07 am

DT. wrote:
Expatkiwi wrote:The Set of Ideas on an Overall Framework Agreement on Cyprus (1992) sounds like an equitable soloution, except that the layout is more a confederal than a federal setup. That point aside, which side dropped the ball on this and why?


Accepted as a basis of a negotiation by Vassiliou and rejected by Denktash.

As far as VP and Zan are concerned the GC' rejected all proposals :lol:


Give us more details DT 8)

Your line of "accepted by Vassiliou as a basis of a negotiation", was accepted by both so your twisting the words to win a point that you lost before you started is pure rubbish my friend........Wanna try again....... :lol: :lol: :lol:



You are stooping to a new low guv!!!!!! :roll: Now lets have the real reasons shall we....... :arrow: :arrow:
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Postby zan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:11 am

Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:BBF is on offer take it or leave it....the choice is yours.


As a True Federation, I'll take it.

As a disguised Partition, NO THANKS.

Here is something for all to think about.

Had the 2004 AP passed by all Cypriots, the North would have been considered a Turkish Territory and in essence can do whatever they wished to do with it, continue being part of the "United Cyprus" or just say, the hell with it, we want to be Independent. I can guarantee you, had that been the case, the North would have declared Independence the same week as Kosovo and all those who are willing to recognise Kosovo would have had no choice but recognise the North also.

Guess what, with VP's kind of BBF, the same situation will exist again in the near future, if it's adapted. What's to stop it.???

I'm not revealing any secrets here. If I can read the "tea leaves" so can everyone else. That's why the BBF has been dubbed as a "disguised Partition". So what's the advantage for the GC's to say yes on VP's BBF. Perhaps VP can give us all the advantages to the GC's of his kind of BBF over a clean partition or staying as we are now.


Can you tell us which part of the Annan Plan allowed the TCs to do that....Give us the specific part please???? :roll:
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Postby DT. » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:40 am

zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
Expatkiwi wrote:The Set of Ideas on an Overall Framework Agreement on Cyprus (1992) sounds like an equitable soloution, except that the layout is more a confederal than a federal setup. That point aside, which side dropped the ball on this and why?


Accepted as a basis of a negotiation by Vassiliou and rejected by Denktash.

As far as VP and Zan are concerned the GC' rejected all proposals :lol:


Give us more details DT 8)

Your line of "accepted by Vassiliou as a basis of a negotiation", was accepted by both so your twisting the words to win a point that you lost before you started is pure rubbish my friend........Wanna try again....... :lol: :lol: :lol:



You are stooping to a new low guv!!!!!! :roll: Now lets have the real reasons shall we....... :arrow: :arrow:


Very simple....... Guv :roll:

Vassiliou accepted it as a basis to negotiate and Denktash did not. Am not sure what more you need?
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Postby DT. » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:42 am

zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:BBF is on offer take it or leave it....the choice is yours.


As a True Federation, I'll take it.

As a disguised Partition, NO THANKS.

Here is something for all to think about.

Had the 2004 AP passed by all Cypriots, the North would have been considered a Turkish Territory and in essence can do whatever they wished to do with it, continue being part of the "United Cyprus" or just say, the hell with it, we want to be Independent. I can guarantee you, had that been the case, the North would have declared Independence the same week as Kosovo and all those who are willing to recognise Kosovo would have had no choice but recognise the North also.

Guess what, with VP's kind of BBF, the same situation will exist again in the near future, if it's adapted. What's to stop it.???

I'm not revealing any secrets here. If I can read the "tea leaves" so can everyone else. That's why the BBF has been dubbed as a "disguised Partition". So what's the advantage for the GC's to say yes on VP's BBF. Perhaps VP can give us all the advantages to the GC's of his kind of BBF over a clean partition or staying as we are now.


Can you tell us which part of the Annan Plan allowed the TCs to do that....Give us the specific part please???? :roll:


The same part that the 1960's agreement allowed Turkey to permanently occupy half the island.

You have a knack of not requiring express permission to partition.
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Postby zan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:45 am

DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
Expatkiwi wrote:The Set of Ideas on an Overall Framework Agreement on Cyprus (1992) sounds like an equitable soloution, except that the layout is more a confederal than a federal setup. That point aside, which side dropped the ball on this and why?


Accepted as a basis of a negotiation by Vassiliou and rejected by Denktash.

As far as VP and Zan are concerned the GC' rejected all proposals :lol:


Give us more details DT 8)

Your line of "accepted by Vassiliou as a basis of a negotiation", was accepted by both so your twisting the words to win a point that you lost before you started is pure rubbish my friend........Wanna try again....... :lol: :lol: :lol:



You are stooping to a new low guv!!!!!! :roll: Now lets have the real reasons shall we....... :arrow: :arrow:


Very simple....... Guv :roll:

Vassiliou accepted it as a basis to negotiate and Denktash did not. Am not sure what more you need?


Bullshit again mate... :roll: :roll: Both sides agreed to talk and that is a fact...The talks broke down, that is all......As I said...Your wording needs reviewing.......Have another go!!! :roll:
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Postby zan » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:48 am

DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:BBF is on offer take it or leave it....the choice is yours.


As a True Federation, I'll take it.

As a disguised Partition, NO THANKS.

Here is something for all to think about.

Had the 2004 AP passed by all Cypriots, the North would have been considered a Turkish Territory and in essence can do whatever they wished to do with it, continue being part of the "United Cyprus" or just say, the hell with it, we want to be Independent. I can guarantee you, had that been the case, the North would have declared Independence the same week as Kosovo and all those who are willing to recognise Kosovo would have had no choice but recognise the North also.

Guess what, with VP's kind of BBF, the same situation will exist again in the near future, if it's adapted. What's to stop it.???

I'm not revealing any secrets here. If I can read the "tea leaves" so can everyone else. That's why the BBF has been dubbed as a "disguised Partition". So what's the advantage for the GC's to say yes on VP's BBF. Perhaps VP can give us all the advantages to the GC's of his kind of BBF over a clean partition or staying as we are now.


Can you tell us which part of the Annan Plan allowed the TCs to do that....Give us the specific part please???? :roll:


The same part that the 1960's agreement allowed Turkey to permanently occupy half the island.

You have a knack of not requiring express permission to partition.


You must be up to your ankles in it today mate :roll: :roll: :roll: There is nothing in the Zurich agreement that allows that but it does say that the island should be handed back to the rightful Cypriot government....That is not the Greek state of the "RoC"......The proper government of the CYPRUS REPUBLIC does not exist so there is no such entity to hand it back to... :roll: :roll:
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Postby DT. » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:54 am

zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
Expatkiwi wrote:The Set of Ideas on an Overall Framework Agreement on Cyprus (1992) sounds like an equitable soloution, except that the layout is more a confederal than a federal setup. That point aside, which side dropped the ball on this and why?


Accepted as a basis of a negotiation by Vassiliou and rejected by Denktash.

As far as VP and Zan are concerned the GC' rejected all proposals :lol:


Give us more details DT 8)

Your line of "accepted by Vassiliou as a basis of a negotiation", was accepted by both so your twisting the words to win a point that you lost before you started is pure rubbish my friend........Wanna try again....... :lol: :lol: :lol:



You are stooping to a new low guv!!!!!! :roll: Now lets have the real reasons shall we....... :arrow: :arrow:


Very simple....... Guv :roll:

Vassiliou accepted it as a basis to negotiate and Denktash did not. Am not sure what more you need?


Bullshit again mate... :roll: :roll: Both sides agreed to talk and that is a fact...The talks broke down, that is all......As I said...Your wording needs reviewing.......Have another go!!! :roll:


http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/9418.pdf

Sec General Report of Nov 19th puts blame on Denktash for talks breakdown. Anything else Guv?
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Postby DT. » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:56 am

zan wrote:
DT. wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Viewpoint wrote:BBF is on offer take it or leave it....the choice is yours.


As a True Federation, I'll take it.

As a disguised Partition, NO THANKS.

Here is something for all to think about.

Had the 2004 AP passed by all Cypriots, the North would have been considered a Turkish Territory and in essence can do whatever they wished to do with it, continue being part of the "United Cyprus" or just say, the hell with it, we want to be Independent. I can guarantee you, had that been the case, the North would have declared Independence the same week as Kosovo and all those who are willing to recognise Kosovo would have had no choice but recognise the North also.

Guess what, with VP's kind of BBF, the same situation will exist again in the near future, if it's adapted. What's to stop it.???

I'm not revealing any secrets here. If I can read the "tea leaves" so can everyone else. That's why the BBF has been dubbed as a "disguised Partition". So what's the advantage for the GC's to say yes on VP's BBF. Perhaps VP can give us all the advantages to the GC's of his kind of BBF over a clean partition or staying as we are now.


Can you tell us which part of the Annan Plan allowed the TCs to do that....Give us the specific part please???? :roll:


The same part that the 1960's agreement allowed Turkey to permanently occupy half the island.

You have a knack of not requiring express permission to partition.


You must be up to your ankles in it today mate :roll: :roll: :roll: There is nothing in the Zurich agreement that allows that but it does say that the island should be handed back to the rightful Cypriot government....That is not the Greek state of the "RoC"......The proper government of the CYPRUS REPUBLIC does not exist so there is no such entity to hand it back to... :roll: :roll:


The smell must be killing you Zan still you can use it for your garden. If you want to talk in Kiosk terms go ahead.
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Postby DT. » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:05 pm

here's the resolution as well Zan :lol: :lol: http://www.un.int/cyprus/scr789.htm

5. Notes that the recent joint meetings did not achieve their intended goal, in particular because certain positions adopted by the Turkish Cypriot side were fundamentally at variance with the Set of Ideas,
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Postby halil » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:27 pm

sorry guys , today we are very bussy . lots of demands from all over the world too many interviews goes on . on the waiting list now CNN, later on Al Jazeera ...... between this busy hours i did get chance to inform ypu with more agreements . they will be base for future talks . what i can get now on from the reporters from all around.
Draft Framework Agreement on Cyprus, 29 March 1986

Recognising with satisfaction that the initiative of the Secretary-General, which bore in mind the relevant United Nations resolutions and which began in August 1984 in Vienna and continued through the high-level proximity talks from September to December 1984 and the joint high- level meeting of January 1985 held in New York, has now resulted in an important step towards a just and lasting settlement of the Cyprus problem; The parties agree on the following matters which are to be viewed as an integrated whole:

I.1 The Parties:

(a) Recommit themselves to the high-level agreements of 1977 and 1979;

(b) Indicate their determination to proceed, at the date referred to in paragraph 15.1 below, to the establishment of a Federal Republic that will be independent and non-aligned, bi-communal as regards the federal constitutional aspect and bi-zonal as regards the territorial aspect;

(c) Reaffirm their acceptance of those introductory constitutional provisions that were agreed upon at the intercommunal talks in 1981-82;

(i) The Federal Republic of Cyprus shall have international personality. The federal government shall exercise sovereignty in respect of all of the territory. The attributes of international personality shall be exercised by the federal government in accordance with the federal constitution. The provinces or federated states may act in their areas of competence in accordance with the federal constitution and in a manner that would not duplicate the powers and functions of the federal government as defined in the federal constitution.

(ii) The people of the Federal Republic shall comprise the Greek Cypriot community and the Turkish Cypriot community. There shall be a single citizenship of the Federal Republic of Cyprus regulated by federal law.

(iii) The territory of the Federal Republic shall comprise the two provinces or federated states.

(iv) The official languages of the Federal Republic shall be Greek and Turkish. The English language may also be used.

(v) The Federal Republic shall have a neutral flag and anthem to be agreed. Each province or federated state may have its own flag using mainly elements of the federal flag. The federal flag shall be flown on federal buildings and federal locations to the exclusion of any other flag.

(vi) The federal government shall observe the holidays of the Federal Republic. Each province or federated state shall observe the federal holidays as well as those established by it.

(vii) The parties reaffirm all other points that were agreed upon during the course of the intercommunal talks as contained in the 'revision' dated 18 May 1982 concerning general provisions. Part I, fundamental rights and liberties. Part H, as well as Parts III and IV.

2.1 The powers and functions to be vested in the federal government of the Federal Republic shall comprise:

(a) Foreign affairs.

(b) Federal financial affairs (including federal budget, taxation, customs and excise duties).

(c) Monetary and banking affairs.

(d) Federal economic affairs (including trade and tourism).

(e) Posts and telecommunications.

(f) International transport.

(g) Natural resources (including water supply, environment).

(h) Federal health and veterinary affairs.

(i) Standard setting: weights and measures, patents, trademarks,

copyrights.

(j) Federal judiciary.

(k) Appointment of federal officers.

(1) Defence (to be discussed also in connection with the treaties of guarantee and of alliance); security (as it pertains to federal responsibility).

2.2 Additional powers and functions may be vested in the federal government by common agreement of both sides. Accordingly, the residual powers shall rest with the provinces or federated states. Federal legislation may be executed either by authorities of the federal government or by

way of coordination between the competent authorities of the federal government and of the two provinces or federated states.

3.1 The legislature of the Federal Republic will be composed of two chambers: a lower chamber with a 70-30 Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot representation, and an upper chamber with a 50-50 representation. Federal legislation will be enacted with regard to the matters of federal competence as referred to in paragraph 2.1 above. The adoption of legislation on major matters, as for instance on ten of the twelve functions referred to in paragraph 2.1 above, will require separate majorities in both chambers. The adoption of legislation on other matters will require majorities of the membership in each chamber.

3.2 Appropriate constitutional safeguards and deadlock resolving machinery including special provisions to facilitate action on matters necessary for the continued functioning of the federal government (e.g. on budgetary questions) will be incorporated in the federal constitution. In case of deadlock in the legislature, the proposed legislation may be submitted in the first instance to a conciliation committee of the legislature composed of three Greek Cypriots and two Turkish Cypriots, whose decision will be taken on the basis of majority vote including at least one Turkish Cypriot. If the deadlock persists, the president and vice-president of the Federal Republic will, upon request, appoint on an ad hoc basis one persons each, selected for their knowledge of the subject involved, who, with the assistance of experts as needed, including from outside the Federal Republic of Cyprus, will advise the legislature on ways the deadlock could be resolved. The matter may also be submitted to a referendum among the population of the community which opposed the draft legislation. Legislation adopted by the legislature may be taken to the Constitutional Court for ruling as to whether it violates the constitution or is discriminatory against either community.

4.1 The Federal Republic will have a presidential system of government. The president and the vice-president will symbolise the unity of the country and the equal political status of the two communities. In addition, the executive will reflect the functional requirements of an effective federal government.

4.2 The president will be a Greek Cypriot and the vice-president will be a Turkish Cypriot. The president and the vice-president will, separately or conjointly, have the right to veto any law or decision of the legislature and the Council of Ministers in areas to be agreed upon, it being understood that the scope will exceed that covered by the 1960 constitution. The president and the vice-president will have the right, separately or conjointly, to return any law or decision of the legislature or any decision of the Council of Ministers for reconsideration.

4.3 The Council of Ministers will be composed of Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot ministers on a 7 to 3 ratio. One major ministry will be headed by a Turkish Cypriot, it being understood that the parties agree to discuss that the Minister for Foreign Affairs will be a Turkish Cypriot. The Council of Ministers will take decisions by weighted voting, that is a simple majority including at least one Turkish Cypriot minister. It is understood that the parties agree to discuss that weighted voting will apply to all matters of special concern to the Turkish Cypriot community to be agreed upon.

4.4 Appropriate constitutional safeguards and deadlock resolving machinery related to decisions by the Council of Ministers, including special provisions to facilitate action on matters necessary for the continued functioning of the federal government, will be incorporated in the federal constitution. In case of deadlock, the president and vice- president of the Federal Republic will, upon request, appoint on an ad hoc basis one person each, selected for their knowledge of the subject involved, who, with the assistance of experts as needed, including from outside the Federal Republic of Cyprus, will advise the Council of Ministers on ways the deadlock could be resolved. The matter may also be submitted to a referendum among the population of the community which opposed the draft decision. A decision by the Council of Ministers may be taken to the Constitutional Court for ruling as to whether it violates the constitution or is discriminatory against either community.

5.1 The Constitutional Court, when ruling on disputes relating to the distribution of powers and functions between the federal government and the provinces or federated states and on such other matters as may be assigned to it by the parties in accordance with the federal constitution, will be composed of one Greek Cypriot, one Turkish Cypriot and one non-Cypriot voting member,

6.1 As regards freedom of movement, freedom of settlement and right to property, a working group will discuss the exercise of these rights, including time-frames, practical regulations and possible compensation arrangements, taking into account guideline 3 of the 1977 agreement.

7.1 Territorial adjustments, in addition to the areas already referred to in the 5 August 1981 Turkish Cypriot proposals, will be agreed upon. These territorial adjustments will result in the Turkish Cypriot province or federated state comprising in the order of 29 plus per cent of the territory of the Federal Republic. It is understood that when discussing the actual territorial adjustments the two sides will have in mind the 1977 high-level agreement including 'certain practical difficulties which may arise for the Turkish Cypriot community' and the questions related to resettlement. Both sides agree to suggest special status areas adjacent to each other for the purpose of enhancing trust between the sides. These areas will remain under their respective civilian jurisdictions.

8.1 A timetable for the withdrawal of non-Cypriot military troops and elements, as well as adequate guarantees, will be agreed upon prior to the establishment of a transitional federal government. In the meantime, military deconfrontation measures will be pursued by both sides, using the good offices and assistance of UNFICYP.

8.2 The two sides undertake to discuss these issues in good faith and to consider each other's concerns on them.

9.1 A Fund for Development of the Turkish Cypriot province or federated state shall be established with a view to achieving an economic equilibrium between the two provinces or federated states. A fund will also be established to facilitate the resettlement of the Greek Cypriot displaced persons, and for the Turkish Cypriots displaced as a consequence of the implementation of paragraph 7.1. The federal government shall contribute to these funds. Foreign governments and international organisations shall be invited to contribute to the funds.

10.1 The Varosha area and the six additional areas delineated in the Turkish Cypriot map of 5 August 1981 will be placed under United Nations interim administration as part of the UNFICYP buffer zone for resettlement by....

11.1 Both parties agree not to take any action tending to prejudice the process outlined in this agreement, both on the international scene and internally.

12.1 The Nicosia international airport will be reopened under interim United Nations administration with free access from both sides. The United Nations will conclude the arrangements to that effect by....

13.1 Adequate machinery for considering allegations of non-implementation of confidence-building measures will be agreed upon. The Secretary-General will make appropriate recommendations to both sides in this regard.

14.1 The parties to agree to establish working groups to work out the detailed agreements on the matters referred to in this agreement, whose elements are inter-related and constitute an integrated whole. The working groups will carry out their work under the direction of joint high-level

meetings. These joint high-level meetings will take place every three to four months, on the basis of an agenda prepared by the Secretary-General, to discuss the issues which remain to be negotiated under this agreement, to review the work and provide guidance to the working groups. The joint high-level meetings will be convened by the Secretary-General after adequate preparation.

14.2 Each working group will be composed of delegations from the two sides and will be chaired by a representative of the Secretary-General. The working groups will begin their meetings at the United Nations premises in Nicosia on.... Each working group will prepare a programme of work and will submit it for approval and guidance to the joint high-level meeting which will take place at the United Nations premises in Nicosia on....

14.3 The representative of the Secretary-General chairing each working group will every three months prepare an assessment of the progress made by the working group, which will be presented to the next joint high-level meeting together with the views of the Secretary-General.

15.1 The parties agree that, the required working groups having completed their work and having obtained the approval of the two sides, the transitional federal government of the Federal Republic of Cyprus will be set up on....

16.1 The Secretary-General will remain at the disposal of the parties to assist in the elaboration of this agreement, and, if required, in its interpretation.
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