Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Here is that link again. A very sad video.

I thought I will post it as the link above does not work.

video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8259503203978535843

[wallace]

Yeah some other fools here seem to claim that Enosis was a democratic right that was achieved through the votes of "all Cypriots" (:lol:) while this Wallace fool seems to shrink it to "a few hundred" for the sake of argument, where does this hypocrisy end i wonder

If it would have occured it would have been a democratic right. That you as a minority can not life with that, that is your problem. You allways had the choice and the right to move to turkey=fascist state if you did not like it. But NO....instead you choose to ethnicaly cleanse 200.000 CYPRIOTS from their homes and then keep on using the word ENOSIS to justify your crimes you daft plonker. It's barbarian mongolian bastards like you that are a sickness on this little planet :D:D:D

[wallace]

I cant tell you anything mate. Your people make their own decisions. Would it not have been better to stay out of it.

Surley if you stayed out of the troubles a better constitution would have been draw up when the brits were ready to sit down and talk about possible independence as Enosis was out of the question because the TC's had rights.

Like I said not everyone wanted Enosis I know my family were against it at the time. The trust between the two community was lost as soon as you backed the brits.

This gave Grivas and his thugs the licence to go after the TC's when independence was granted. Markarios made mistakes in the early 60's when he decided he wanted Cyprus to become part of Greece. This gave Grivas licence to kill. Makarios relised his mistakes but it was too late.

I believe the Turkey munipulated the situation so they could get half of Cyprus. It was always their plan and their mate Kissinger was there to help.

Staying out was not an option as it was our future and well being that was being gambled, we did not want to be part of Greece so we had no option but to stand up and fight for what we believed, the Brits were our only local ally.

Better constitution for whom? and why?

Stand up and fight and defending your believes is different then ethnically cleansing 200.000 you plonker. You cannot justify all the international crimes you have comitted and are still comitting at this moment because a couple of 100 assholes wanted your so called enosis. Whatever you say and all the bullshit you throw out on this forum will only be recognised by all that read it that you are trying to justify your criminal behaviour. The RoC is a EU member now and we live by a certain law and have human rights in place. Your mother country Turkey=Fascist state is braking all laws at the moment.

Dont see anyone running to your rescue wallace, what does that tell you? The "cleansing" you claim was only a result of your actions when Turkish troops were trying to save your arse, if you try to kill me I will try to defend myself and cannot promise that I will not try to kill you.

Rescue will come....patience VP...patience!! Have a look at this you plonker. Cleansing I claim????? All these people were trying to kill you?? Sure they were.....keep on trying to justify your crimes while having a look at this. Real images plonker video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8259503203978535843

The people pay the price for keeping silent, you are now claiming that the majority of GCs did not support enosis when you had a poll in your churches 99% voted for enosis so theres no denying that your ultimate goal was to gift Cyprus to Greece sod the TCs let them take their chance of survival for which we fought tooth and nail and created a safe haven for ourselves, this is what really bugs you.

What really bugs me is that even now you looking at images of innocent people.....children....old people...women etc. that you still try to justify your crimes against humanity!!! Do you hear anybody...GC's claiming that no wrongs were done from the GC's side? The only thing you plonkers do is use something what is not even at order at the moment.."enosis" to justify the crimes you are comitting even TODAY. You are still....yes....even you!!! accepting settlers to move in to property that does not belong to them. Moving elligal immigrants over the green lines......trafficking drugs to the south of Cyprus and being a heavegarden for international criminals who moved to your so called pseudo TRNC. I guess you are proud of calling yourself a TC or turk right?? :D:D:D:D:D

[bilako22]

I cant tell you anything mate. Your people make their own decisions. Would it not have been better to stay out of it.

Surley if you stayed out of the troubles a better constitution would have been draw up when the brits were ready to sit down and talk about possible independence as Enosis was out of the question because the TC's had rights.

Like I said not everyone wanted Enosis I know my family were against it at the time. The trust between the two community was lost as soon as you backed the brits.

This gave Grivas and his thugs the licence to go after the TC's when independence was granted. Markarios made mistakes in the early 60's when he decided he wanted Cyprus to become part of Greece. This gave Grivas licence to kill. Makarios relised his mistakes but it was too late.

I believe the Turkey munipulated the situation so they could get half of Cyprus. It was always their plan and their mate Kissinger was there to help.

Staying out was not an option as it was our future and well being that was being gambled, we did not want to be part of Greece so we had no option but to stand up and fight for what we believed, the Brits were our only local ally.

Better constitution for whom? and why?

Stand up and fight and defending your believes is different then ethnically cleansing 200.000 you plonker. You cannot justify all the international crimes you have comitted and are still comitting at this moment because a couple of 100 assholes wanted your so called enosis. Whatever you say and all the bullshit you throw out on this forum will only be recognised by all that read it that you are trying to justify your criminal behaviour. The RoC is a EU member now and we live by a certain law and have human rights in place. Your mother country Turkey=Fascist state is braking all laws at the moment.

Dont see anyone running to your rescue wallace, what does that tell you? The "cleansing" you claim was only a result of your actions when Turkish troops were trying to save your arse, if you try to kill me I will try to defend myself and cannot promise that I will not try to kill you.

Rescue will come....patience VP...patience!! Have a look at this you plonker. Cleansing I claim????? All these people were trying to kill you?? Sure they were.....keep on trying to justify your crimes while having a look at this. Real images plonker video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8259503203978535843

The people pay the price for keeping silent, you are now claiming that the majority of GCs did not support enosis when you had a poll in your churches 99% voted for enosis so theres no denying that your ultimate goal was to gift Cyprus to Greece sod the TCs let them take their chance of survival for which we fought tooth and nail and created a safe haven for ourselves, this is what really bugs you.

What really bugs me is that even now you looking at images of innocent people.....children....old people...women etc. that you still try to justify your crimes against humanity!!! Do you hear anybody...GC's claiming that no wrongs were done from the GC's side? The only thing you plonkers do is use something what is not even at order at the moment.."enosis" to justify the crimes you are comitting even TODAY. You are still....yes....even you!!! accepting settlers to move in to property that does not belong to them. Moving elligal immigrants over the green lines......trafficking drugs to the south of Cyprus and being a heavegarden for international criminals who moved to your so called pseudo TRNC. I guess you are proud of calling yourself a TC or turk right?? :D:D:D:D:D

Of course we are proud to be Turks . Your one-sided biased views count for nothing , matey.

[wallace]

facts matey....just facts. :D:D

[observer]

(Partial)
In November 1963 (not 1974 as you seem to believe) Makarios submitted his 13 points to change the Constitution, removing (as seen through TC eyes) constitutional safeguards and being a large step on the way to enosis. One month later, GCs launched a premeditated attack on TC communities. The evidence for this is fairly conclusive from a number of sources, and is generally accepted by independent authorities. This brought the UN to Cyprus in early 1964, and sporadic intercommunal violence occured afterwards, gradually reducing, but leaving many TCs in embargoed camps and enclaves. This included vengeance killings by some GCs and some TCs, I don't know anyone who denies it.

You may have been born then, but most of your "facts" above, are not the real facts! Whatever I marked in red is nothing else than distortions or lies, and I ask you to prove it from independed sources as you claimed.

As background, ypu might care to read this: http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/www.cypr ... p%203.html
Richard Patrick is a Canadian professor who served as a UN officer in Cyprus in the 1960s
This paragraph is especially relevant:
As early as 1962, Polycarpos Georgadjis, the Minister of the Interior, had warned the officers of his underground army that in the following year President Makarios would propose amendments to the constitution which would be so unacceptable to the Turk-Cypriots that TMT would start fighting. When the amendments were proposed, there was general dismay among many of the leaders of this Greek-Cypriot force that Turk-Cypriots did not rise to the bait. As a result, elements of the Greek-Cypriot police and a number of armed Greek-Cypriot irregulars were attempting to goad TMT into action in December 1963. Had the incident of 21 December not occurred, there can be no doubt that a similar Incident if would have been precipitated by Christmas.

One effort to "prove" the TCs were in revolt was the explosion of the Markos Drakos statue, now known from a number of sources to have been ordered by Polycarpos Georgadjis.

There is also the recent revelation: In (16 Apr 08) "Politis" newspaper a former EOKA member and now a retired teacher sheds more light on the events. He recalls that in November 1963, officers of ELDYK and the Cypriot army, recruited all 120 male students of the Cyprus Teachers' Academy (bar one who was thought to be leftist) and were told that they would be trained in the use of arms because on December 25 there will follow an attack on the Turkish Cypriots that would result in the annihilation of all the Turkish Cypriots so that enosis would be declared. "Not even one Turkish cat will remain alive" they were told.

Then there is the view of the British High Commission at the time:
On 12th January 1964 the British High Commission in Nicosia wrote to London (telegram no. 162) "The Greek (Cypriot) police are led by extremists who provoked the fighting and deliberately engaged in atrocities. They have recruited into their ranks as "special constables" gun-happy young thugs. ....... Makarios assured Sir Arthur Clark that there will be no attack. His assurance is as worthless as previous assurances have proved."

You can google foreign newspaper reports of the period. Outside Greece, all that I have read seem to be in no doubt that GCs launched a premeditated attack in December 1963.

Add to this the disarming before the event of TC policemen, and the warnings given to TC friends by GCs (which you will probably not accept as independent) and you come up with a fairly conclusive picture of a premeditated attack in my opinion.

[observer]

(PARTIAL)

There was a gradual improvement up to 1974, but in 1974 there was a coup aimed at enosis. I was not in Cyprus for this. I can not tell how popular or otherwise the coup was, but the facts speak for themselves. The coup started on July 15th. 4 days later, the elected president, Makarios, had fled the island. ... More Greek troops were at sea sailing to Cyprus. .
.

You may have been born then, but most of your "facts" above, are not the real facts! Whatever I marked in red is nothing else than distortions or lies, and I ask you to prove it from independed sources as you claimed.

I think that Nikitas is not biased towards Turkey:

In 1974 Greek troops of the regular ELDYK force were sailing to Cyprus on a transport ship. Yes, but they were not additional troops, they were the replacement of those on the island. Typical military blunder to send an unarmed transport when planning hostilities.

We both agree that Greek troops were on there way to Cyprus. As neither of us (I presume) were members of the Greek Junta then we can only guess at the reason.

The fact that they were sailing towards an island where the Greek government had just backed a coup (Makarios called it an invasion) might give rise to the suspicion that it was not a regular replacement. Coming on a ship, not by air, might lead the suspicious to think they were bringing heavy equipment. As for using an unarmed ship, twice before (63 & 67) Turkey had held been held back from interfering in Cyprus. A leadership stupid enough to start a coup might reason that the Turks would be held back for a third time.

[Kifeas]

(PARTIAL)

There was a gradual improvement up to 1974, but in 1974 there was a coup aimed at enosis. I was not in Cyprus for this. I can not tell how popular or otherwise the coup was, but the facts speak for themselves. The coup started on July 15th. 4 days later, the elected president, Makarios, had fled the island. ... More Greek troops were at sea sailing to Cyprus. .
.

You may have been born then, but most of your "facts" above, are not the real facts! Whatever I marked in red is nothing else than distortions or lies, and I ask you to prove it from independed sources as you claimed.

I think that Nikitas is not biased towards Turkey:

In 1974 Greek troops of the regular ELDYK force were sailing to Cyprus on a transport ship. Yes, but they were not additional troops, they were the replacement of those on the island. Typical military blunder to send an unarmed transport when planning hostilities.

We both agree that Greek troops were on there way to Cyprus. As neither of us (I presume) were members of the Greek Junta then we can only guess at the reason.

The fact that they were sailing towards an island where the Greek government had just backed a coup (Makarios called it an invasion) might give rise to the suspicion that it was not a regular replacement. Coming on a ship, not by air, might lead the suspicious to think they were bringing heavy equipment. As for using an unarmed ship, twice before (63 & 67) Turkey had held been held back from interfering in Cyprus. A leadership stupid enough to start a coup might reason that the Turks would be held back for a third time.

On the afternoon of 19th July 1974, half of the 950 men Greek contingent in Cyprus (as provided by the 1960 treaties) was doing its scheduled 6 month replacement. That is, 450 fresh troops came from Greece and disembarked in the Famagusta harbor, and 450 older troops embarked on the same ship and begun sailing back to Greece. On the morning of the 20th of July 1974, at the time the Turkish invasion had already started, this ship sailing towards Greece was caught 4 miles south-west of Pafos. The Captain of the ship, realizing that the fresh troops been disembarked in Famagusta the previous day were new to Cyprus and totally inexperienced, decided -upon the demand of the soldiers themselves on the ship, to turn it towards Pafos town and allow them to land and make their way to Nicosia where the Eldyk contingent was based, in order to help their left behind colleges.

The ship with Greek troops was in Cyprus and was sailing towards Greece, and this happened on the day the Turkish invasion started, and not before, as you have made it appear! Now, compare what you have posted above, with what the actual facts were, and make your own judgment whether you deliberately wanted to mislead the readers of the forum, or not!

[Viewpoint]

(PARTIAL)

There was a gradual improvement up to 1974, but in 1974 there was a coup aimed at enosis. I was not in Cyprus for this. I can not tell how popular or otherwise the coup was, but the facts speak for themselves. The coup started on July 15th. 4 days later, the elected president, Makarios, had fled the island. ... More Greek troops were at sea sailing to Cyprus. .
.

You may have been born then, but most of your "facts" above, are not the real facts! Whatever I marked in red is nothing else than distortions or lies, and I ask you to prove it from independed sources as you claimed.

I think that Nikitas is not biased towards Turkey:

In 1974 Greek troops of the regular ELDYK force were sailing to Cyprus on a transport ship. Yes, but they were not additional troops, they were the replacement of those on the island. Typical military blunder to send an unarmed transport when planning hostilities.

We both agree that Greek troops were on there way to Cyprus. As neither of us (I presume) were members of the Greek Junta then we can only guess at the reason.

The fact that they were sailing towards an island where the Greek government had just backed a coup (Makarios called it an invasion) might give rise to the suspicion that it was not a regular replacement. Coming on a ship, not by air, might lead the suspicious to think they were bringing heavy equipment. As for using an unarmed ship, twice before (63 & 67) Turkey had held been held back from interfering in Cyprus. A leadership stupid enough to start a coup might reason that the Turks would be held back for a third time.

On the afternoon of 19th July 1974, half of the 950 men Greek contingent in Cyprus (as provided by the 1960 treaties) was doing its scheduled 6 month replacement. That is, 450 fresh troops came from Greece and disembarked in the Famagusta harbor, and 450 older troops embarked on the same ship and begun sailing back to Greece. On the morning of the 20th of July 1974, at the time the Turkish invasion had already started, this ship sailing towards Greece was caught 4 miles south-west of Pafos. The Captain of the ship, realizing that the fresh troops been disembarked in Famagusta the previous day were new to Cyprus and totally inexperienced, decided -upon the demand of the soldiers themselves on the ship, to turn it towards Pafos town and allow them to land and make their way to Nicosia where the Eldyk contingent was based, in order to help their left behind colleges.

The ship with Greek troops was in Cyprus and was sailing towards Greece, and this happened on the day the Turkish invasion started, and not before, as you have made it appear! Now, compare what you have posted above, with what the actual facts were, and make your own judgment whether you deliberately wanted to mislead the readers of the forum, or not!

How do we know which is the truth? just because you say so doesnt make it so.

[unitedwestand]

(PARTIAL)

There was a gradual improvement up to 1974, but in 1974 there was a coup aimed at enosis. I was not in Cyprus for this. I can not tell how popular or otherwise the coup was, but the facts speak for themselves. The coup started on July 15th. 4 days later, the elected president, Makarios, had fled the island. ... More Greek troops were at sea sailing to Cyprus. .
.

You may have been born then, but most of your "facts" above, are not the real facts! Whatever I marked in red is nothing else than distortions or lies, and I ask you to prove it from independed sources as you claimed.

I think that Nikitas is not biased towards Turkey:

In 1974 Greek troops of the regular ELDYK force were sailing to Cyprus on a transport ship. Yes, but they were not additional troops, they were the replacement of those on the island. Typical military blunder to send an unarmed transport when planning hostilities.

We both agree that Greek troops were on there way to Cyprus. As neither of us (I presume) were members of the Greek Junta then we can only guess at the reason.

The fact that they were sailing towards an island where the Greek government had just backed a coup (Makarios called it an invasion) might give rise to the suspicion that it was not a regular replacement. Coming on a ship, not by air, might lead the suspicious to think they were bringing heavy equipment. As for using an unarmed ship, twice before (63 & 67) Turkey had held been held back from interfering in Cyprus. A leadership stupid enough to start a coup might reason that the Turks would be held back for a third time.

On the afternoon of 19th July 1974, half of the 950 men Greek contingent in Cyprus (as provided by the 1960 treaties) was doing its scheduled 6 month replacement. That is, 450 fresh troops came from Greece and disembarked in the Famagusta harbor, and 450 older troops embarked on the same ship and begun sailing back to Greece. On the morning of the 20th of July 1974, at the time the Turkish invasion had already started, this ship sailing towards Greece was caught 4 miles south-west of Pafos. The Captain of the ship, realizing that the fresh troops been disembarked in Famagusta the previous day were new to Cyprus and totally inexperienced, decided -upon the demand of the soldiers themselves on the ship, to turn it towards Pafos town and allow them to land and make their way to Nicosia where the Eldyk contingent was based, in order to help their left behind colleges.

The ship with Greek troops was in Cyprus and was sailing towards Greece, and this happened on the day the Turkish invasion started, and not before, as you have made it appear! Now, compare what you have posted above, with what the actual facts were, and make your own judgment whether you deliberately wanted to mislead the readers of the forum, or not!

How do we know which is the truth? just because you say so doesnt make it so.

If its said by Kifeas then it has to be true

Credit given when due these guys are the masters of bullshit.