Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

One aspect of this whole sad saga keeps staring us in the face...
In 1950 there were 400,000 GCs and 100,000TCs give or take a few thousand other minorities....Yet the GCs totally ignored the feelings of the TCs and pushed ahead with their demand for ENOSIS....What did they think the TCs would do against such a terrible possibility (for them!)????

I am yet to read any attempt by any rightthinking member of this Forum addressing this issue...And please don't say "bad luck,majority rules"...
My point is those pushing for ENOSIS knew how the TCs would react...So how did they really hope to overcome the TC resistance??? Come on people,time to show some empathy for your TC compatriots...What would you do if you were in their shoes???? And put your hands on your hearts and tell me,was it not asking for real trouble for GCs to disregard the TC feelings on this...given the past 450 years of Cyprus history????

The mere fact that the TCs resisted the democratic right of the majority in their quest for self determination, and them forming TMT in 1958, was the first treasonous act of the TCs towards the GCs and the island of Cyprus.

The TCs collaborated with the British during 1955-1959. They withdrew from Government in 1963. They also committed atrocities towards the GCs. And last but definitely not least, they assisted Turkey in the July 1974 invasion.

So where in all that do the TCs deserve sympathy? Throughout the history of the island, the TCs committed "High Treason" towards their country.

Here is the definition of "High Treason":

[b]"Disloyalty or treachery to one's country or its government, to impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" [/b]

Perhaps you are referring to the 500-600 or so that were massacred by the GCs. Off course we sympathise with the victims of these atrocities. Do the TCs sympathise with our 10,000 victims between 1958-1974? Too much to ask?

But you ask too much my friend when you expect sympathy for your "High Treason" on several fronts. If the TCs had collaborated with EOKA from day 1, then I am positive that extremely strong bridges would have been built and bonds formed, which would have resulted in "real" nationhood and brotherhood. But this was not your goal. You wanted TAKSIM or to control Cyprus through Turkey.

Go and find another shoulder to cry on!!!

Credits: GR! for using part of his research and posts!

Thanks for that definition of treasom Bafidis. So EOKA commited treason against the 'Legal' goverment of Cyprus during the EOKA Emergency.

I sometimes had given EOKA some credit. Your definition proves me wrong.

So oppressive rule against the wishes of the majority is "legal" according to your warped sense of meaning?

[denizaksulu]

One aspect of this whole sad saga keeps staring us in the face...
In 1950 there were 400,000 GCs and 100,000TCs give or take a few thousand other minorities....Yet the GCs totally ignored the feelings of the TCs and pushed ahead with their demand for ENOSIS....What did they think the TCs would do against such a terrible possibility (for them!)????

I am yet to read any attempt by any rightthinking member of this Forum addressing this issue...And please don't say "bad luck,majority rules"...
My point is those pushing for ENOSIS knew how the TCs would react...So how did they really hope to overcome the TC resistance??? Come on people,time to show some empathy for your TC compatriots...What would you do if you were in their shoes???? And put your hands on your hearts and tell me,was it not asking for real trouble for GCs to disregard the TC feelings on this...given the past 450 years of Cyprus history????

The mere fact that the TCs resisted the democratic right of the majority in their quest for self determination, and them forming TMT in 1958, was the first treasonous act of the TCs towards the GCs and the island of Cyprus.

The TCs collaborated with the British during 1955-1959. They withdrew from Government in 1963. They also committed atrocities towards the GCs. And last but definitely not least, they assisted Turkey in the July 1974 invasion.

So where in all that do the TCs deserve sympathy? Throughout the history of the island, the TCs committed "High Treason" towards their country.

Here is the definition of "High Treason":

[b]"Disloyalty or treachery to one's country or its government, to impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" [/b]

Perhaps you are referring to the 500-600 or so that were massacred by the GCs. Off course we sympathise with the victims of these atrocities. Do the TCs sympathise with our 10,000 victims between 1958-1974? Too much to ask?

But you ask too much my friend when you expect sympathy for your "High Treason" on several fronts. If the TCs had collaborated with EOKA from day 1, then I am positive that extremely strong bridges would have been built and bonds formed, which would have resulted in "real" nationhood and brotherhood. But this was not your goal. You wanted TAKSIM or to control Cyprus through Turkey.

Go and find another shoulder to cry on!!!

Credits: GR! for using part of his research and posts!

Thanks for that definition of treasom Bafidis. So EOKA commited treason against the 'Legal' goverment of Cyprus during the EOKA Emergency.

I sometimes had given EOKA some credit. Your definition proves me wrong.

Great minds think alike,huh,yegenim????

Good morning yegen. I wish I had your ability at debate. But a kid could see this definition as being ineffective.

[Oracle]

One aspect of this whole sad saga keeps staring us in the face...
In 1950 there were 400,000 GCs and 100,000TCs give or take a few thousand other minorities....Yet the GCs totally ignored the feelings of the TCs and pushed ahead with their demand for ENOSIS....What did they think the TCs would do against such a terrible possibility (for them!)????

I am yet to read any attempt by any rightthinking member of this Forum addressing this issue...And please don't say "bad luck,majority rules"...
My point is those pushing for ENOSIS knew how the TCs would react...So how did they really hope to overcome the TC resistance??? Come on people,time to show some empathy for your TC compatriots...What would you do if you were in their shoes???? And put your hands on your hearts and tell me,was it not asking for real trouble for GCs to disregard the TC feelings on this...given the past 450 years of Cyprus history????

The mere fact that the TCs resisted the democratic right of the majority in their quest for self determination, and them forming TMT in 1958, was the first treasonous act of the TCs towards the GCs and the island of Cyprus.

The TCs collaborated with the British during 1955-1959. They withdrew from Government in 1963. They also committed atrocities towards the GCs. And last but definitely not least, they assisted Turkey in the July 1974 invasion.

So where in all that do the TCs deserve sympathy? Throughout the history of the island, the TCs committed "High Treason" towards their country.

Here is the definition of "High Treason":

[b]"Disloyalty or treachery to one's country or its government, to impair the well-being of a state to which one owes allegiance; the crime of giving aid or comfort to the enemies of one's government" [/b]

Perhaps you are referring to the 500-600 or so that were massacred by the GCs. Off course we sympathise with the victims of these atrocities. Do the TCs sympathise with our 10,000 victims between 1958-1974? Too much to ask?

But you ask too much my friend when you expect sympathy for your "High Treason" on several fronts. If the TCs had collaborated with EOKA from day 1, then I am positive that extremely strong bridges would have been built and bonds formed, which would have resulted in "real" nationhood and brotherhood. But this was not your goal. You wanted TAKSIM or to control Cyprus through Turkey.

Go and find another shoulder to cry on!!!

Credits: GR! for using part of his research and posts!

Thanks for that definition of treasom Bafidis. So EOKA commited treason against the 'Legal' goverment of Cyprus during the EOKA Emergency.

I sometimes had given EOKA some credit. Your definition proves me wrong.

Great minds think alike,huh,yegenim????

Good morning yegen. I wish I had your ability at debate. But a kid could see this definition as being ineffective.

Paphitis is quite correct ... clearly the TCs (although they did not exist before 1960 ) viewed the British as their legitimate government ... but the GCs never did.

Therein lies another salient difference.

You are happy to be ruled by either Brits or Turks ... and have hence always had it how you like for most of your history ... and we the GCs are never allowed to rule ourselves!

There's fairness for you in a warped mind!

[halil]

Bananiot ,
They thought they will get all the TC's at one night and no one can asked them any questiones ! simple as this to answer Birkibrisli .....
rest of it story .

It was on news here in north that they started investigate EOKA file in South . They are investigating 74 coup files,back to 64 and 67 conflict etc...etc ....to find out what was the function of the EOKA and EOKA_B.

how is going on the resaerch ?

Halil, why don't you spend your time to educate your self, starting from learning better English so that you will be able to read on the Cyprus issue outside the Turkish text books that aim only at brainwashing and fanaticising you; and instead you waste it here in the forum by throwing nonsensical, meaningless and empty slogans and clichés -besides cutting and pasting the Bayrak version of news on Cyprus?

Kifeas ,
If you were born between 1950-1974 you don't need any version of the history books . you live with it and you learn with it . U don't need brainwashing ....thats what u trying to do all the time by trying to change truths .Ignoring the all the facts ,trying to prove how EOKA was good ...It was terrorist organisation ...They should count the TC's factor as well .
If they were going to get out colonial power they should work with TC's .
They are aim should be independent Cyprus not ENOSİS .Simple as this ,for u if it is brainwashing ,call it brainwashing ....

What did u except from us , just wait and see what will happen ? they didn't wait .... u know what happened afterwards ..... ROC

Than what happened ....... demands for ENOSİS did not end ...:..
1963 -1964 -1967 and finaly 1974 .............

forget about my english above dates explains everything clearly for u and for me ..... If i point out those dates and you are calling me fanatic call me Kifeas ....who cares ....i know what i am .....

[Paphitis]

I was not looking for a shoulder to cry on,Paphidis...
I was simply airing a question that has been troubling me for some time...
You chose to come back with the predictable "all TCs are traitors" attitude,and totally ignored the essence of my question...

Thankfully,miltiades,Bananiot,Kifeas, Nikitas,and michalis to some extend,gave their best shot to answer my query,and I thank them for it...

Good to hear Bir. You do try to play the sympathy card, time and time again, and hence my response to you. To my mind, I believe that I have answered your question with a bit more substance than what other members have. The sentiments expressed by me are low on symbolism but are honest. And I do not need to sugar coat my remarks to gain any kudos or admiration and acknowledgement from other members. That is who I am and the ideals I live by.

Your question was answered by me honestly and diligently. If you read it again, you would notice that I did indeed sympathise with any TC victims and their families. I merely also pointed out that I expect the same about the 10,000 GC victims from 1958-1974, and you have chosen to overlook this, which further lowers my opinion of you. There were victims on both sides, but the facts remain, that the first persons killed by any Inter Communal violence were in fact GCs. The TCs chose to oppose the wishes of the majority. Britain's "Divide and Rule" was working. The GCs did in fact appeal to the TCs as "Patriots", but this was unfortunately ignored.

I would be very careful when throwing allegations of "High treason" as lightly as you and some of your collaborators do...By your own definition, and theoretically, Makarios and the GC politicians at the time(including past president Papadopoulos),plus the EOKA members can all be accused of High treason themselves...They were not fighting for independence....They were fighting to unite their homeland with a "Foreign" country,hence betraying the oath they must've taken when sworn in as Ministers of the Republic of Cyprus....What you are missing is the essential ingredients which will help us to unite our country,empathy and compassion for the TCs...You cannot even imagine the position the GC demand for ENOSIS put the TCs at the time...They simply thought they had no other option but fight it by all means they can command...

Clearly, I have not made any reference to either Makarios, Pappadopoulos, or any other GC politician. I do not consider any of them to be treasonous. Those that envisaged "ENOSIS" in the 50s were not treasonous. And the same individuals that changed their minds post 1960, were still not treasonous. To be honest, I am finding it very difficult to understand what you are on about.

But yes, I referred to TCs as being treasonous to the state. I consider the TCs as treasonous because they turned their backs to the GCs at a time when they were needed, for TMT, withdrawing from Government in 1963, and assisting the Turkish invasion in 1974. And I also maintain that some GCs (EOKA B) are also treasonous to the state. Treason in the form of the EOKA B violence against TCs between 1963-1967, and for the Coup against Makarios.

So your accusation of me showing some kind of bias which favors the GC argument, is invalid. I can see wrongs from both sides, but it now appears that you are showing your true colors by only seeing the wrongs from your side only. This is very unfortunate.

All the other members who replied showed this empathy if not compassion,for which I am grateful...And in case you are wondering,I too think it was a legitimate and understandable action to demand ENOSIS with Greece at the time...I am just scratching my head wondering how on earth they thought they would get away with it...

I am very disappointed with your attitude Bir. Because I too showed empathy with the TC victims. I also reminded you of the GC victims, and unfortunately you have still neglected to mention anything.

The "shoulder to cry on" remark is because you portray yourself as the sole victim. Some of you also portray this as a Genocide. And yet you forget about the first victims which were in actual fact, GC, and numbered some 10,000 or so.

The sympathy I expressed is the only "real" sympathy, as it came from the heart and was honest, and without the sugar coating. So you should be thanking me!

I am still waiting for reciprocal sympathy, but judging from your belligerence, I may be waiting a long time....

Words can not describe my disappointment.

[Nikitas]

One problem with Cypriots of all sides is that we bandie about the words "treason" and "traitor" with ease.

If you opposed Enosis in the 50s it was treason. If you supported Enosis in the 70 it was treason. Using labels is an easy way to avoid reasonable debate, which in turn is another problem with Cypriots and we patch it with quickstick labels.

[Oracle]

...But yes, I referred to TCs as being treasonous to the state. I consider the TCs as treasonous because they turned their backs to the GCs ...

TCs cannot be viewed as treasonous to Cyprus as their allegiance has always been to Turkey, proven time and time again! They are simply invaders and we gave them too much credence in believing them to be Cypriot in any capacity.

Maybe they conned us effectively, maybe we were too trusting .... either way, any expected or tacit loyalty was betrayed.

[Paphitis]

One problem with Cypriots of all sides is that we bandie about the words "treason" and "traitor" with ease.

If you opposed Enosis in the 50s it was treason. If you supported Enosis in the 70 it was treason. Using labels is an easy way to avoid reasonable debate, which in turn is another problem with Cypriots and we patch it with quickstick labels.

How else would you choose to label TMT, EOKA B, the Coup and the TC collaboration with the Turkish Invasion of 74 and for the continued occupation of our island.

I do not think I am being unreasonable by using such labels when attributed to all of the above. Or am I?

Treason is not a term to be used lightly, but some deserve the title. And off course this is IMHO!

[Get Real!]

In 1959 we accepted the London-Zurich agreements because the armed struggle was failing badly.

The British relinquished Cyprus as a result of EOKA’s actions and nothing else, as confirmed by myriads of publications including the analysis of the “Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College” I previously posted in this thread, which you obviously haven’t bothered to read!

Your attempt to undermine the brave efforts of 300 odd Cypriot lads who in just four years managed to send 40,000 Brits packing to enclaves they called “bases” and the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960, is nothing short of treasonous and pitiful!

Bananiot, take your computer back to the shop and tell them you’re too stupid to own one.

[zan]

In 1959 we accepted the London-Zurich agreements because the armed struggle was failing badly.

The British relinquished Cyprus as a result of EOKA’s actions and nothing else, as confirmed by myriads of publications including the analysis of the “Strategic Studies Institute of the US Army War College” I previously posted in this thread, which you obviously haven’t bothered to read!

Your attempt to undermine the brave efforts of 300 odd Cypriot lads who in just four years managed to send 40,000 Brits packing to enclaves they called “bases” and the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus in 1960, is nothing short of treasonous and pitiful!

Bananiot, take your computer back to the shop and tell them you’re too stupid to own one.

Hahahahahaaaa...I wonder if that little boy has still got his finger in the dam wall!!!