Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

What is also amazing is that for the first time a country has been allowed to block the entry of another. Now that is an interesting precedent. I think the Europeans have now realised that they were conned by TPap.

What do you call the Dutch blocking the Serbian candidacy?

No the same. EU did not vote for Serbs on account of their behaviour against the Bosnians. All of EU voted. As far as I know, here, there was no official vote for TRNC.

the only country that is blocking Serbia this minute from achieving candidacy status is the Netherlands.

Now what does the "trnc" vote have to do with this? The EU can only accept countries as nations...not miilitary bases.

Don't worry DT, we are used to being ignored. Unfortunately we haven’t mastered the sign language yet, but we are learning.

[Piratis]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

I don't agree with you Tim. The Kurds are the majority in south eastern Turkey and they have been so for 1000s of years. They are very similar to the Scots. You can't say that there is no Scotland because many Scots now live in London or other cities in the UK or because some no-Scottish people now live in Scotland.

Here is a map of ethnic groups from 1923
http://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg

The TCs on the other hand are an ethnic minority which was the result of a comparatively recent colonization. They do not have their own separate territory. They are like the Turks of Bulgaria or the Whites of South Africa, or even the Greeks of Egypt.

Nobody forced any Turks to come to Cyprus, they became a minority on our island with their own free will, and now just like the Turks of Bulgaria, or the Whites of South Africa, or the Greeks of Egypt, these minorities should accept that they do not have any right to impose their rule anymore, and they should accept to be equal citizens along with everybody else.

[zan]

Did you colour that map in yourself with your own crayons Piratis...

Who invited you to Macadonia....

[Get Real!]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

[Tim Drayton]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

[Get Real!]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

Fine... read what it says in the box on the bottom-left corner of the map.

[Tim Drayton]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

Fine... read what it says in the box on the bottom-left corner of the map.

Right, so the people who produced this map also want all of their 'enclaves' elsewhere. How about respecting the many non-Kurdish enclaves within the green area, too.

[Piratis]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

Tim, nobody said that all Kurds live in Kurdistan, and that nobody else lives there. In Kurdistan there is a minority of Turks (and others), and Kurdish people live in the rest of Turkey (and elsewhere). This is perfectly natural, it would be very weird if it was in any other way.

The important thing here is that in the Kurdistan area the majority (not all) of people are Kurds, and this has been the case for 1000s of years, long before any Turks came to the area.

[Tim Drayton]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

I don't agree with you Tim. The Kurds are the majority in south eastern Turkey and they have been so for 1000s of years. They are very similar to the Scots. You can't say that there is no Scotland because many Scots now live in London or other cities in the UK or because some no-Scottish people now live in Scotland.

Here is a map of ethnic groups from 1923
http://www.anesi.com/rmap2.jpg

The TCs on the other hand are an ethnic minority which was the result of a comparatively recent colonization. They do not have their own separate territory. They are like the Turks of Bulgaria or the Whites of South Africa, or even the Greeks of Egypt.

Nobody forced any Turks to come to Cyprus, they became a minority on our island with their own free will, and now just like the Turks of Bulgaria, or the Whites of South Africa, or the Greeks of Egypt, these minorities should accept that they do not have any right to impose their rule anymore, and they should accept to be equal citizens along with everybody else.

The comparison with Scotland is totally specious. Scotland was a state with clearly defined boundaries, and all those living within its borders were its citizens. It became incorprated into the United Kingdom as result of the union of the crowns, and later the union of the parliaments. If you study the history of the Scottish state, you will see that it grew over time as it incorporated a number of formerly different kingdoms, initially as the the first people to call themselves 'Scots', Gaelic-speaking migrants from Island, conquered the Picts, and then the Britons of the kingdom of Strathclyde and the Angles of the Lothians. Scotland was a bilingual country right up until the union, with Gealic spoken in the highlands and Scots/Lallans in the lowlands. In short, being 'Scottish' simply meant being an inhabitant of the territory of that state, it was not an ethinic concept.

Conversely, the concept of 'Kurdistan' is a romantic notion dreamed up by certain Kurdish nationalists but which has never existed in any territorial sense. Kurdish anyway is divided into two dialects, Sorani and Kurmanji, which are not really mutually comprehensible and some linguists argue that they are two separate languages. Another interesting theory I once heard from a Kurdish-speaking doctor is that Kurdish is really a dialect of Farsi, and the very term 'Kurdish' was invented to denigrate Faris-speakers living in the region. The situation on the ground is a great deal more complicated than you give credit for.

[Tim Drayton]

There is no distinct Kurdish region of Turkey. Kurdish villages are concentrated in the south east, but can be found as far west as Ankara province. Kurdish villages are interspersed with villages of other ethnic origin. Anway, the majority of Kurds now live in the large cities of western Turkey to which they have migrated. It is imposible to identify a particular region of the Republic of Turkey as being 'Kurdistan'.

Doesn't get much clearer than this...

I beg to differ. There are many Kurdish-speaking villages around the town of Divriği in Sivas province, for example. This is over 400 kilometres west of the region shown on that map. I have been to Divriği so I can state that from personal experience. Conversely, I know an academic who comes from Diyarbakır province, which is contained within the green area of your map. His native language is Zazaki, not Kurdish, and he is most inisistent that he is not a Kurd. In fact, he is the author of a very respected grammar of his native language. Anatolia is a mosiac of different peoples and it defies division into ethnically homogenous zones.

Tim, nobody said that all Kurds live in Kurdistan, and that nobody else lives there. In Kurdistan there is a minority of Turks (and others), and Kurdish people live in the rest of Turkey (and elsewhere). This is perfectly natural, it would be very weird if it was in any other way.

The important thing here is that in the Kurdistan area the majority (not all) of people are Kurds, and this has been the case for 1000s of years, long before any Turks came to the area.

True, except where is this 'Kurdistan'? There are areas where Kurdish-speakers are thickly concentrated, that is all.