Cyprus-Forum.com

[Khan]

Main_Source, difference between British and Ottomans is British imposed their way of life wherever they went, Ottomans let people get on with their own life and practice their own religion under what was called millets. Thats why the Ottoman empire lasted over 600 years.

Anyway, i cant hold a discussion with people who have a deluded view of history.

[Piratis]

Firstly do you agree that both communities pre 1974 really messed up and caused the current situation we are in?

Both communities messed up, but the current situation is not the fault of GCs. Today we have 2005, not 1960 or 1970.
Sure, the argument can be that past events can affect future events, but in that case we have to start from the beginning of interaction of Greeks and Turks on this island, and again you will see that the GCs were not the ones to blame. So stop using that one decade to make the fault of GCs and TCs the same. That one decade can simply not be compared with the centuries of oppression that the Turks have caused to us, and the 3 decades of occupation. Sorry, but the fact is that the Turks are responsible for 99% of the crimes committed between the two communities on this island, and erasing the whole history and emphasizing just that one decade is nothing more that a lame propaganda to equate the fault between the victim and the preditor.

the TCs came out in force and staged the biggest meeting in the world according to population and voted in favour of unification.

The TCs voted for legalizing the partition with the American made plan. Absolutely nothing to do with unification.

Now we have a new situation and the GCs for the first time have to wear the bad guy hat

If UK/US want to present us as the "bad" guys, this is nothing new. They are the ones that planed the partition of this place in the first place. Fortunately they are not alone in this world, and this is why your pseudo state will remain pseudo, and the occupation will never be legalized.

so we need transition periods where we can understand and get over our fears of the other side, starting to trust each other and build cooperation.

I have no problem with transitional periods. However why should we sign an agreement that gives more to you and less to us? Will you later come and give us back what you not deserve? I don't think so. So sorry, but the only transitional periods we can accept are those that specifically describe how long this period will be and that at the end of it we will get what we legally own and nothing less.

By the way, we have no problem with north Cyprus. We love this part of our country just as much as we love any other part. What we will not allow though is that some foreigners will benefit from our land and that some thieves will become rich by exploding the land they stole.

Piratis, if you knew anything about histroy, you'd know that the 'barbarian hordes' liberated the Greek Cypriots from Venetian rule.

Sure sure. You are the only ones you know about history. We, the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Romanians and all the other nations you oppressed all have the wrong history.

Somebody is learning quick, somebody slow!
I think you are belonging to the second group!

oh, ok ... sorry that I do not posses any of the high intelligent characteristics of the great Turkic civilization

Which right you are claiming?

Our legal and human rights. But don't worry, being what you are, I wouldn't expect you to understand what these things are. I will not even bother to explain you.

You and your similar brethren have created unrest and a war in Cyprus, you lost this war together with 1/3 of the island. You were running away leaving your property behind.

We didn't create any war with you. Unlike you, we know how to create things, not just steal what other created.

Now you would like to turn the history?
Never my friend.
That's over!

History is over? Wow. Are you really really sure?

Your stubborness killed last year your last chance with the A-plan. That's over now as well.
So let us know what you are talking about and no more daydreams please!

We will "daydream", and be sure that if you don't give back what you stole that the nightmares you will be having will not be while you are asleep.

[Khan]

Piratis, if you could provide me with a reference or quotation from a book which proves that Ottomans oppressed and ethnically cleansed Greek Cypriots after 1571, please go ahead.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you are one very angry GCs Im only glad that I have only met a few like you or do the others conceal their true feelings???

Sure, the argument can be that past events can affect future events, but in that case we have to start from the beginning of interaction of Greeks and Turks on this island, and again you will see that the GCs were not the ones to blame. So stop using that one decade to make the fault of GCs and TCs the same. That one decade can simply not be compared with the centuries of oppression that the Turks have caused to us, and the 3 decades of occupation. Sorry, but the fact is that the Turks are responsible for 99% of the crimes committed between the two communities on this island, and erasing the whole history and emphasizing just that one decade is nothing more that a lame propaganda to equate the fault between the victim and the preditor.

Why are you so caught up in measuring the amount of blame for events that led up to 1974 does this make you feel better to think that TCs were 99% the cause, if so then your line of thought is very warped my friend, ease up we are not trying to gain brownie points, when I stated we all messed up it was a way of drawing a line on the past and moving forward.

The TCs voted for legalizing the partition with the American made plan. Absolutely nothing to do with unification.

Whatever the content of the Annan Plan it was an overall comprehensive solution to the Cyprus issue. We TCs would have been very stupid to have voted any other way.

Fortunately they are not alone in this world, and this is why your pseudo state will remain pseudo, and the occupation will never be legalized.

Why are you concerned so much if we remain unrecognized doesnt that still mean we are partitioned and you cannot get your hands on your property??? does it serve your interests??? no I dont see that it does. Would it be more in your interests to find a solution that would serve both our interests??

GCs always try to use the idea that we are unrecognized as a slap in our faces, they do not realize that yes the TCs would like to join the rest of the world and benefit from international recognition but the last 31 years have shown and you have now seen for yourselves over the last 2 years that we are not doing to badly under the circumstancies, does this make you feel uncomfortable that we can eat at restaurants and go on holiday and have 2 cars per family etc etc....or would you prefer we were poverty stricken and in need of GC assistence, GC intentions are always questionable, they do not come accross as being genuine and are always thawt with undertones and traps!!!!

What we will not allow though is that some foreigners will benefit from our land and that some thieves will become rich by exploding the land they stole.

Not under your control, the sooner our leaders talk to each other the sooner you may get your wish.

[Dhavlos]

Piratis....were you personnally affected by the invasion (ie loss of property/missing persons etc.) ?

Or at least im assuming you are from the 60s/70s ... otherwise there is a lot of anger there that cant really be explained.

I know its an emotive subject, but for a solution, we must try to stay calm, otherwise nothing will prevail.

Even if you do not agree because that person is wrong etc. in your eyes, then you must let them learn the error of their ways. THe truth will emerge and lies will be forgotten.

[Viewpoint]

Dhavlos for Piratis there is no middle ground we TCs are all thieves murders and rapists and should all be shot by the guns that are stored in GCs homes to be used against us if there is another war...end of story.

[cannedmoose]

Piratis....were you personnally affected by the invasion (ie loss of property/missing persons etc.) ?

Or at least im assuming you are from the 60s/70s ... otherwise there is a lot of anger there that cant really be explained.

Dhavlos, you appear to be an exception to the rule. In my experience, I've found that you tend to find that those GCs who lived through the invasion are among the more philosophical about a solution - look at the bicommunal surveys by Alex Lordos posted on here and that might confirm it, I'll need to check back myself to see what he has on that (speaking of Alex, where are you mate? We miss your input!)

By contrast, many of the younger GCs that I know are far more radical and are a product of an education system that has taught them to think in that way.

[Viewpoint]

cannedmoose

By contrast, many of the younger GCs that I know are far more radical and are a product of an education system that has taught them to think in that way.

,

Do you mean brainwashed???

[Dhavlos]

I agree,

but are you talking about people in cyprus or UK.

I think in both cyp/uk communities, the Church has got a lot to answer for.

Instead of promoting peace etc... they do tend to go for the 'muslims are scum' approach, and if your turkish its a double whammy ( sorry for for the way i put it).

I think it is really bad that the younger generations are more radical, even if its jokingly that they think TCs are murderers etc..(sorry again for phrasing).

Its misinformation....most of the 'radical' ones i think, are learning of the cyprus problem though their family and not researching themselves. THey take the simplist view that turkey invaded and split the island....many do not know that their was a greek military coup first.
So inevitably, they think the greeks are guilt-free.

I would like to think im more level-headed than most GCs, old or young.

[cannedmoose]

Do you mean brainwashed???

I hesitate to use that word because of the connotations involved, but yes VP, one could say that in terms of the way they are taught to view Turks (not necessarily TCs, but certainly Turks), and the way that they are taught the mantras of return of land, return of all refugees, when it is obvious that any future plan will not permit this, is a form of brainwashing by the state. Even more so for the male population, who follow school with army and have the same ideology drilled into them even more.

I'm sure this goes on in the north as well, but I was pleased to see how the curriculum had been amended to include a more balanced textbook view of the situation. It would be good if the GCs took the lead and did the same.