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Talat’s Plan B?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby DT. » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:26 pm

halil wrote:here is the Yusuf Kanli article for Cyprus package

Monday, January 11, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
A day after the Greek Cypriot National Council – composed of the president and leaders of all political parties represented in the House of Representatives – flatly rejected a set of proposals regarding the “Governance and power sharing” chapter, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Dimitris Christofias launched the first round of three-day intensified talks yesterday. The second round will be held between Jan. 25-27. In this first round, the leaders will be focusing on power-sharing under a future federal structure, the economy and European Union matters.

What were the fundamental elements of the plan? First of all, like the entire process, the set of offers was built on a “nothing is agreed unless everything is agreed” principle “with an integrated whole approach,” yet negotiable as long as “the internal balance” of the package was not compromised. That was, naturally a constructive approach aimed at triggering a meaningful give-and-take.

Of the 10 offers included in the package, nine of them might have been endorsed by all Turkish Cypriots irrespective of political standing. But, as regards the first proposal – that contained a cross-voting scheme for the election of the president and the vice president (each coming from different communities) of the future federal republic as well as a five-year presidential term on the basis of rotation between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot in a ratio of three years to two years, the creation of an 12-member Cabinet [as opposed to earlier Greek Cypriot demands for a nine-member Cabinet, three Turkish Cypriots and six Greek Cypriots], five members coming from Turkish Cypriot community and on the condition that the foreign minister and the EU affairs minister; the finance minister and the interior minister; and the natural resources minister and the transportation minister shall never come from the same constituent state – there was a marked deviation from the established parameters of the Turkish Cypriot approach to a settlement on the island. With this offer, the Turkish Cypriot side gave a strong signal to the Greek Cypriot side that it may compromise from its established position that the new partnership state on the island would be the common state of the existing two communities, two democracies, two cultures and two religions on the basis of political equality.

As this offer was nothing further than a revised version of an earlier suggestion by Greek Cypriot President Christofias, I would assume that this was not the reason why Greek Cypriot National Council decided Sunday to reject the package. Yet, the last paragraph of this proposal was stressing that the “concurrent favorable vote of both the president and the vice president shall be required” for the Cabinet to adopt a decision. That, effectively, was introducing a veto mechanism, like the 1960 system. This, indeed, was the sole sentence that the Eroğlu government was happy with in this proposal regarding the “executive” in Talat’s latest set of proposals, but since Greek Cypriots collapsed the 1960 republic among some other reasons because of the veto power of the Turkish Cypriot vice president, probably this was one of the main reasons of the Greek Cypriot “Oxi” to the package.

The second item in the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals was regarding the legislature of the future federation. The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies. Furthermore, the proposal underlines that there will always be at least one-fourth representation of each of the two constituent states in the House where decisions will be made with simple majority, provided a minimum of one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two states vote affirmatively. At the Senate, however a qualified vote [two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state, in addition to a simple majority of deputies present and voting including one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two federated states] will be required in legislating laws in certain areas [such as internal security, federal finance, taxation and foreign relations] to be specified in the federal constitution.

If the 1960 agreement was an “effective federation” because of similar qualified vote arrangements in favor of Turkish Cypriots, naturally Greek Cypriots were right in complaining that the arrangements explained above were describing a confederation not a federation or elements that will add a federation some confederal components.

I will continue tomorrow with other elements in the Turkish Cypriot package.


Halil, wake up and read your posts. Next time you see DOwner I want you to complain that your side is negotiating outside of the agreed framework of a BBF.
Last edited by DT. on Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DT. » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:28 pm

halil wrote:Last tangos on Cyprus .................

Greek Cypriots reject Turkish Cypriots' settlement proposals


The Greek Cypriot authorities rejected on Sunday proposals by the Turkish Cypriot leader on state regulations in case of the reunification of Cyprus, local media reported.

Cyprus has been divided since 1974 when Turkey invaded the north in response to a military coup on the island that was backed by Athens. The Turkish Cypriot state is recognized only by Turkey.

UN-mediated talks, aimed at the reunification of Cyprus, are being held between the leaders of the Greek and the Turkish parts of the island.

Earlier this week, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat handed over his proposals on desirable state regulations to the Greek Cypriot authorities.

"The proposals are admittedly unacceptable. They cannot be a base for discussions," spokesman for the Greek Cypriot government Stephanos Stephanou was quoted by media reports as saying.

According to local papers, Mehmet Ali Talat's proposals focus on the creation of a confederation-like state, while UN resolutions stipulate a federation should be created in the island.

In particular, the Turkish Cypriot leader has proposed to establish the position of vice president, who is to be elected from representatives of the Turkish community. Both the president and the vice president should have a veto right. Besides, Talat has proposed to replace a one-house parliament by a two-house body, with a half of seats in its upper house intended for representatives of the island's Turkish Cypriot minority.

A new round of talks between Talat and Greek Cypriot President Demetris Christofias is scheduled to start on Monday.

ATHENS, January 10 (RIA Novosti)
http://en.rian.ru/world/20100110/157505989.html


Talat's proposals for the new State

Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmed Ali Talat offers Cypriots to vote for leader of the Turkish Cypriots, Turks in Cyprus to obtain the status similar to that of European citizens and to create two separate areas for air traffic control in the north and south.

Special Advisor to the General Secretariat of the UN Alexander Downer gave the proposals made by Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat on the issue of governance, to President of the Republic of Cyprus Dimitris Hristofias.

According to the Turkish media the proposals are the following:

- President and Vice President, who will come from different communities will be selected by vote of both Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots based on a procedure which the Turks and Turkish Cypriots call "cross-voting”. Except for the leader of their community Cypriots will vote also for a Turkish Cypriot leader, but their votes will be counted with a heavier factor. According to publications Cypriots insist that their vote should be counted for 25% and Ankara is discuss the possibility about 20%, depending on what they will receive in return.

- Among some of Ankara’s requests, which will be set for discussion by the Turkish Cypriot leader, is to recognize the right of Turkish citizens to move freely, buy real estate and to be employed as al EU citizens have those rights, while Turkey is still not a member. In this way, Ankara is trying to ensure the regime for its citizens stay on the island, but it does not think that the final decision on this question will come from the EU.

- Turkey insists for the creation of two different areas of air traffic control – from the Turkish Cypriots to the north and from the Greek Cypriots to the south.

- The president and vice president of the new state should have the right for a veto over decisions of the Ministerial Council.

According to the representative of the Cypriot government Stefanos Stefanou, Mr. Hristofias will notify the parties involved in the National Council about the proposals and will consult with them because Talat's proposals relate to the negotiations, which will begin on Monday.
http://www.grreporter.info/en/talats_pr ... state/1785


The ones in red prove once and for all that Bubbles the monkey has taken over negotiations from Ankara.
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Postby denizaksulu » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:30 pm

DT. wrote:
halil wrote:here is the Yusuf Kanli article for Cyprus package

Monday, January 11, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
A day after the Greek Cypriot National Council – composed of the president and leaders of all political parties represented in the House of Representatives – flatly rejected a set of proposals regarding the “Governance and power sharing” chapter, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Dimitris Christofias launched the first round of three-day intensified talks yesterday. The second round will be held between Jan. 25-27. In this first round, the leaders will be focusing on power-sharing under a future federal structure, the economy and European Union matters.

What were the fundamental elements of the plan? First of all, like the entire process, the set of offers was built on a “nothing is agreed unless everything is agreed” principle “with an integrated whole approach,” yet negotiable as long as “the internal balance” of the package was not compromised. That was, naturally a constructive approach aimed at triggering a meaningful give-and-take.

Of the 10 offers included in the package, nine of them might have been endorsed by all Turkish Cypriots irrespective of political standing. But, as regards the first proposal – that contained a cross-voting scheme for the election of the president and the vice president (each coming from different communities) of the future federal republic as well as a five-year presidential term on the basis of rotation between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot in a ratio of three years to two years, the creation of an 12-member Cabinet [as opposed to earlier Greek Cypriot demands for a nine-member Cabinet, three Turkish Cypriots and six Greek Cypriots], five members coming from Turkish Cypriot community and on the condition that the foreign minister and the EU affairs minister; the finance minister and the interior minister; and the natural resources minister and the transportation minister shall never come from the same constituent state – there was a marked deviation from the established parameters of the Turkish Cypriot approach to a settlement on the island. With this offer, the Turkish Cypriot side gave a strong signal to the Greek Cypriot side that it may compromise from its established position that the new partnership state on the island would be the common state of the existing two communities, two democracies, two cultures and two religions on the basis of political equality.

As this offer was nothing further than a revised version of an earlier suggestion by Greek Cypriot President Christofias, I would assume that this was not the reason why Greek Cypriot National Council decided Sunday to reject the package. Yet, the last paragraph of this proposal was stressing that the “concurrent favorable vote of both the president and the vice president shall be required” for the Cabinet to adopt a decision. That, effectively, was introducing a veto mechanism, like the 1960 system. This, indeed, was the sole sentence that the Eroğlu government was happy with in this proposal regarding the “executive” in Talat’s latest set of proposals, but since Greek Cypriots collapsed the 1960 republic among some other reasons because of the veto power of the Turkish Cypriot vice president, probably this was one of the main reasons of the Greek Cypriot “Oxi” to the package.

The second item in the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals was regarding the legislature of the future federation. The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies. Furthermore, the proposal underlines that there will always be at least one-fourth representation of each of the two constituent states in the House where decisions will be made with simple majority, provided a minimum of one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two states vote affirmatively. At the Senate, however a qualified vote [two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state, in addition to a simple majority of deputies present and voting including one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two federated states] will be required in legislating laws in certain areas [such as internal security, federal finance, taxation and foreign relations] to be specified in the federal constitution.

If the 1960 agreement was an “effective federation” because of similar qualified vote arrangements in favor of Turkish Cypriots, naturally Greek Cypriots were right in complaining that the arrangements explained above were describing a confederation not a federation or elements that will add a federation some confederal components.

I will continue tomorrow with other elements in the Turkish Cypriot package.


Halil, wake up and read your posts. Next time you see DOwner I want you to complain that your side is negotiating outside of the agreed framework of a BBF.



I know what you mean DT. Both sides are dancing to different tunes. They will get nowhere. Its all a sham. IMO.
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Postby halil » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:45 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:here is the Yusuf Kanli article for Cyprus package

Monday, January 11, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
A day after the Greek Cypriot National Council – composed of the president and leaders of all political parties represented in the House of Representatives – flatly rejected a set of proposals regarding the “Governance and power sharing” chapter, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Dimitris Christofias launched the first round of three-day intensified talks yesterday. The second round will be held between Jan. 25-27. In this first round, the leaders will be focusing on power-sharing under a future federal structure, the economy and European Union matters.

What were the fundamental elements of the plan? First of all, like the entire process, the set of offers was built on a “nothing is agreed unless everything is agreed” principle “with an integrated whole approach,” yet negotiable as long as “the internal balance” of the package was not compromised. That was, naturally a constructive approach aimed at triggering a meaningful give-and-take.

Of the 10 offers included in the package, nine of them might have been endorsed by all Turkish Cypriots irrespective of political standing. But, as regards the first proposal – that contained a cross-voting scheme for the election of the president and the vice president (each coming from different communities) of the future federal republic as well as a five-year presidential term on the basis of rotation between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot in a ratio of three years to two years, the creation of an 12-member Cabinet [as opposed to earlier Greek Cypriot demands for a nine-member Cabinet, three Turkish Cypriots and six Greek Cypriots], five members coming from Turkish Cypriot community and on the condition that the foreign minister and the EU affairs minister; the finance minister and the interior minister; and the natural resources minister and the transportation minister shall never come from the same constituent state – there was a marked deviation from the established parameters of the Turkish Cypriot approach to a settlement on the island. With this offer, the Turkish Cypriot side gave a strong signal to the Greek Cypriot side that it may compromise from its established position that the new partnership state on the island would be the common state of the existing two communities, two democracies, two cultures and two religions on the basis of political equality.

As this offer was nothing further than a revised version of an earlier suggestion by Greek Cypriot President Christofias, I would assume that this was not the reason why Greek Cypriot National Council decided Sunday to reject the package. Yet, the last paragraph of this proposal was stressing that the “concurrent favorable vote of both the president and the vice president shall be required” for the Cabinet to adopt a decision. That, effectively, was introducing a veto mechanism, like the 1960 system. This, indeed, was the sole sentence that the Eroğlu government was happy with in this proposal regarding the “executive” in Talat’s latest set of proposals, but since Greek Cypriots collapsed the 1960 republic among some other reasons because of the veto power of the Turkish Cypriot vice president, probably this was one of the main reasons of the Greek Cypriot “Oxi” to the package.

The second item in the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals was regarding the legislature of the future federation. The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies. Furthermore, the proposal underlines that there will always be at least one-fourth representation of each of the two constituent states in the House where decisions will be made with simple majority, provided a minimum of one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two states vote affirmatively. At the Senate, however a qualified vote [two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state, in addition to a simple majority of deputies present and voting including one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two federated states] will be required in legislating laws in certain areas [such as internal security, federal finance, taxation and foreign relations] to be specified in the federal constitution.

If the 1960 agreement was an “effective federation” because of similar qualified vote arrangements in favor of Turkish Cypriots, naturally Greek Cypriots were right in complaining that the arrangements explained above were describing a confederation not a federation or elements that will add a federation some confederal components.

I will continue tomorrow with other elements in the Turkish Cypriot package.


Halil, wake up and read your posts. Next time you see DOwner I want you to complain that your side is negotiating outside of the agreed framework of a BBF.



I know what you mean DT. Both sides are dancing to different tunes. They will get nowhere. Its all a sham. IMO.


DT, Downer Knows very well both side games, thats why EU,UN and other foregin diplomats are talking with citizans of the both sides.They are listening what streets are telling them ....Not DT or Halil is saying ....not Talat or Christofias are telling them .
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Postby DT. » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:56 pm

halil wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
DT. wrote:
halil wrote:here is the Yusuf Kanli article for Cyprus package

Monday, January 11, 2010
YUSUF KANLI
A day after the Greek Cypriot National Council – composed of the president and leaders of all political parties represented in the House of Representatives – flatly rejected a set of proposals regarding the “Governance and power sharing” chapter, Turkish Cypriot President Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Dimitris Christofias launched the first round of three-day intensified talks yesterday. The second round will be held between Jan. 25-27. In this first round, the leaders will be focusing on power-sharing under a future federal structure, the economy and European Union matters.

What were the fundamental elements of the plan? First of all, like the entire process, the set of offers was built on a “nothing is agreed unless everything is agreed” principle “with an integrated whole approach,” yet negotiable as long as “the internal balance” of the package was not compromised. That was, naturally a constructive approach aimed at triggering a meaningful give-and-take.

Of the 10 offers included in the package, nine of them might have been endorsed by all Turkish Cypriots irrespective of political standing. But, as regards the first proposal – that contained a cross-voting scheme for the election of the president and the vice president (each coming from different communities) of the future federal republic as well as a five-year presidential term on the basis of rotation between a Greek Cypriot and a Turkish Cypriot in a ratio of three years to two years, the creation of an 12-member Cabinet [as opposed to earlier Greek Cypriot demands for a nine-member Cabinet, three Turkish Cypriots and six Greek Cypriots], five members coming from Turkish Cypriot community and on the condition that the foreign minister and the EU affairs minister; the finance minister and the interior minister; and the natural resources minister and the transportation minister shall never come from the same constituent state – there was a marked deviation from the established parameters of the Turkish Cypriot approach to a settlement on the island. With this offer, the Turkish Cypriot side gave a strong signal to the Greek Cypriot side that it may compromise from its established position that the new partnership state on the island would be the common state of the existing two communities, two democracies, two cultures and two religions on the basis of political equality.

As this offer was nothing further than a revised version of an earlier suggestion by Greek Cypriot President Christofias, I would assume that this was not the reason why Greek Cypriot National Council decided Sunday to reject the package. Yet, the last paragraph of this proposal was stressing that the “concurrent favorable vote of both the president and the vice president shall be required” for the Cabinet to adopt a decision. That, effectively, was introducing a veto mechanism, like the 1960 system. This, indeed, was the sole sentence that the Eroğlu government was happy with in this proposal regarding the “executive” in Talat’s latest set of proposals, but since Greek Cypriots collapsed the 1960 republic among some other reasons because of the veto power of the Turkish Cypriot vice president, probably this was one of the main reasons of the Greek Cypriot “Oxi” to the package.

The second item in the Turkish Cypriot set of proposals was regarding the legislature of the future federation. The proposal underlined that while representation in the senate will be on a communal basis, at the House of Representatives representation will be on the basis of “internal citizenship status.” Thus, a Greek Cypriot who might reside in the Turkish Cypriot constituent state will not be able to be elected either to the Senate or the House from the Turkish Cypriot contingencies. Furthermore, the proposal underlines that there will always be at least one-fourth representation of each of the two constituent states in the House where decisions will be made with simple majority, provided a minimum of one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two states vote affirmatively. At the Senate, however a qualified vote [two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state, in addition to a simple majority of deputies present and voting including one-fourth of the representatives from each of the two federated states] will be required in legislating laws in certain areas [such as internal security, federal finance, taxation and foreign relations] to be specified in the federal constitution.

If the 1960 agreement was an “effective federation” because of similar qualified vote arrangements in favor of Turkish Cypriots, naturally Greek Cypriots were right in complaining that the arrangements explained above were describing a confederation not a federation or elements that will add a federation some confederal components.

I will continue tomorrow with other elements in the Turkish Cypriot package.


Halil, wake up and read your posts. Next time you see DOwner I want you to complain that your side is negotiating outside of the agreed framework of a BBF.



I know what you mean DT. Both sides are dancing to different tunes. They will get nowhere. Its all a sham. IMO.


DT, Downer Knows very well both side games, thats why EU,UN and other foregin diplomats are talking with citizans of the both sides.They are listening what streets are telling them ....Not DT or Halil is saying ....not Talat or Christofias are telling them .


Halil, I'm not sure what impression Downer gave you regarding his scope of work but as far as I know these positions your hallucinogenic leaders have come up with are what they expect us to negotiate on....Downer for the time being is making the coffees.

If you're so anxious about what the UN thinks I have a few UN resolutions for you to read.
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Postby B25 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:23 pm

halil wrote:
Last tangos on Cyprus .................

Greek Cypriots reject Turkish Cypriots' settlement proposals


Damn right, did you expect us to accept such a bollocks demand?? I mean come on, I know our politicians are not of the best stock, but you are taking the piss.

all the other EU members had to pass stringent criteria so that their citizens could have free passage EU wide, and you were hoping we would so stupid to allow 70 million Turks free passage WITHOUT Turkey being EU??

If we had accepted that, a) I would have killed myself and b) turkey would just withdraw from the EU.

I am just surprised that it didn't wi the joke of the year award, I can just see the EU MEPs, their arses were all twitching at the thought of these 70 million invading their countries.

FFS, even the TCs should have been worried at this proposal, surely.
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Postby halil » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:14 pm

‘IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO’

“It takes two to tango”. The Turkish Minister of State - Chief Negotiator for talks with the European Union Egemen Bagis has said that it takes two to tango to reach a peaceful settlement in Cyprus. “We are on the dance floor, waiting for the Greek Cypriot Side to join us”, he said. Speaking at an event in Turkey, Mr Bagis emphasized that Turkey will not give up on Cyprus just to become a member of the European Union.
Stressing that Turkey’s expectations over the Cyprus issue are very clear, he underlined the need for establishing direct trade with the TRNC and called on the European Council to implement its own decisions on the issue.

`Direct trade does not mean ‘recognition’. Today, countries which do not recognize Taiwan, are making trade with it. Once direct trade is started, Turkey will simultaneously open its ports to Greek Cypriot traffic” he said.

Mr Bagis stated that the opening of ports would not mean ‘recognition’ too."The Cyprus issue should not constitute an obstacle for Turkey's EU membership as it didn’t so for South Cyprus’ membership to the Block”, he said.


“TURKISH SIDE’S PROPOSALS ARE CREATIVE”


The General Secretary of the Republican Turkish Party has said the chapter of Governance and Power Sharing includes issues forming the basis of the Cyprus problem and that the Turkish Side has put forward creative proposals to remove the obstacles in the way of a solution.

Stressing that the solution of the Cyprus problem is the main priority of his party, Kutlay Erk said that the CTP will not put the B-Plan into its agenda before all options for a solution are tried.
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:57 pm

halil wrote:“We are on the dance floor, waiting for the Greek Cypriot Side to join us”

No, the indigenous Cypriots are NOT interested in the Turkish tango, and those who cannot Tango the Cypriot way had better go find an appropriate partner in Turkey.
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Postby Viewpoint » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 pm

Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:“We are on the dance floor, waiting for the Greek Cypriot Side to join us”

No, the indigenous Cypriots are NOT interested in the Turkish tango, and those who cannot Tango the Cypriot way had better go find an appropriate partner in Turkey.


Good stance, keep up the good work, you are so stupid you cannot see that you are playing right into the lap of Turkey, enjoy...
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Postby Get Real! » Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:56 pm

Viewpoint wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
halil wrote:“We are on the dance floor, waiting for the Greek Cypriot Side to join us”

No, the indigenous Cypriots are NOT interested in the Turkish tango, and those who cannot Tango the Cypriot way had better go find an appropriate partner in Turkey.


Good stance, keep up the good work, you are so stupid you cannot see that you are playing right into the lap of Turkey, enjoy...

I couldn’t care less in whose hands I’m allegedly playing… all I know is that all out war if f******** overdue!
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