Cyprus-Forum.com

[DigenisAkritas]

you dont trust us, and we dont trust you.


Does that sound like a good basis on which to build a single country?

Sorry, you'll never get any self respecting Greek , to say they 'trust' the Turkish Army.

EDITED for reason 1,2
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus1566.html

[MicAtCyp]

That's because we had hardly any hotels, as 'sub citizens' do you have any idea of how difficult it was for a TC to own and build a hotle in the 60's to 74? How many GC imposed hoops had to be jumped through?

Yet Erol (for the area in discussion of this thread) there were only 4 hotels in Larnaca prior to 1974 one of which was the Castle Hotel that belonged and still belongs to a TC. The man was renting it to a GC all along from 1974 until the opening of the gates and was receiving his rent in foreign account. My late father in law was going there every day and after the opening of the gates the TC owner came wanting to rent it to someone else for more money. Our forum member Brother is from that area he can verify you the Castle hotel belongs to a TC.

However yes I am fully aware of the difficulties of the majority of TCs back then, as I confirmed many times in my discussions in this forum with other members.

What is so confusing to me about this is that if we got 3 times the amount and 20 times the value why are we about 1/3 as wealthy as GC? Maybe the answer lies in the difference between what the 'state' (TRNC) got and what indivdual TC got?

Oh yes, we discussed this in the past. What the "state" did with those properties might not be the responsibility of the individual TC but wasn’t it you who said that the people are responsible for what the state does? Or was it Turkcyp? Anyway I don't remember. But anyhow the complain of the GCs and their bitterness remains unaltered no matter how and who got their properties, and causes too much anger when they see them getting "sold" illegally to foreigners. One can digest the fact that a TC is using it, can digest that the situation is such that he is not permitted to take it back, but how can he digest it's selling on top of that? You know there are many GC refugees for whom a piece of land or a home was the result of a lifetime work. . .

Angastiniotis talked of the property losses of the TCs in the 60s.We all know it is true especially for those 25,000 who moved into the enclaves. I fully support the notion of everybody TC/GC getting back the ownership of what he had or of what is left of it irrespective of whether he returns or not. I am relactant to support compensations for the loss of use/depreciations/knocking downs etc either to GCs or TCs because if we do that then the billions required will bankrupt us for eternity. However I will be more than happy to accept these compensations if there is oil in the sea and even sign an agreement in the Cyprob solution that all income from the oil will go to compensate those who lost until the account is settled. The same for those who lost beloved persons if money would help restore a part of their loss.

[metecyp]

You suffer because you got 3 times as much land and properties than what you left behind and 20 times as much in value.

Ok, we got 3 times more land...how about you? You have the sole representation of Cyprus along with its benefits for 40 years now. How much compensation are you willing to pay for that?? See my friend, I accept that we did wrong things and we continue to do so in some ways...but Cyprus problem is not a problem of TCs grabbing land from GCs and not giving it back...This is what you don't get.

[MicAtCyp]

You have the sole representation of Cyprus along with its benefits for 40 years now. How much compensation are you willing to pay for that??

We will pay you 50% of the cost from 1963 until 1974 for pushing you to leave and you will pay us back the 50% because you left to create your own separate administration in the Nicosia enclave, and you will pay to yoursenves 100% of the cost from 1974 until today for creating the pseudo.

but Cyprus problem is not a problem of TCs grabbing land from GCs and not giving it back

It is the most major part of the Cyprob, that affects and links to everything else.

[sadik]

angastiniotis,
I would love to wake up tomorrow and see this world of consolidation, but the very fact that your work is being exploited by the Grey Wolves proves otherwise. I would hope that all this TC praise for your work will be mirrored should you wish to proceed with documantary 2 relating to TC crimes against GC?

Dear Realist and the others who are criticizing this documentary for being one sided,

It's not Angastiniotis work that is being used by some nationalists, it's the crime itself. With or without this documentary the crime exists, and it was the crime that was one sided, not the documentary. Maybe EOKA-B people should have committed a more balanced crime. Value of this work does not diminish because some are using it for their own purposes. In essence, the events that took place are the propoganda and they are true.

Having said this, I don't think this documentary has any value as a propoganda material for the Turkish nationalists, because 1- It makes clear distinction between the GCs and EOKA-B people who committed this crime, 2- TCs in the documentary confirm this idea, 3- Watching a GC describing TC suffering reduces peoples anger and confirms the idea that "they are not all the same". I watched this documentary with a group of people and what I observed is that people got very emotional afterwards; there were people who were crying, but I did not hear any racist remarks being made. I think sharing this emotion with a GC film maker was a very special experience for the people; it was almost like therapy. I think that is what makes it so powerful.

On the other hand, I agree that TCs should also do something similar reflecting the suffering of the GCS. It's not that the TCs don't know that the GCs suffered in 1974. Most people have lived through these events and they know or have heard about them. Even though there are some newspaper articles and books on the subject, I haven't seen anything this powerful. I believe a similar documentary by a TC reflecting the GCs suffering would have a good effect on reconciliation of the two communities. (By the way, there is a Turkish film project about the events in 1974, but as expected, they are having a difficult time obtaining funding. )

I admire Angastiniotis for his courage.

[angastiniotis]

Who it to be blamed the most

I see in many of the discussions in the forum that many TC and GC are arguing about who has killed more and who it to be blamed the most. If any is to be blamed first of all is the politician in power that had many chances to solve the Cyprus problem but never had the will to make the necessary compromises plus they preserve their positions by selling patriotism in a cheap price. Nationalism is what most of the politicians needed to get votes and stay in power and gain personal prosperity using the ignorance of the people.

We can also go along and play the “blame the grate powers” game. But in the conflicts between the 2 communities it was locals holding weapons and bulldozes and making plans of distraction, like the Akritas plan etc. It was a local GC that beaten up a TC in the cafeteria last week not a British or American citizen. It was a local GC in the football came last week that attacked a TC cameraman because he shouted “goal” when Trapezon scored and called him a dog (Shilloturko), shot I have on camera. It was TC that followed my car last night in Famagusta throwing at me harmless explosives because they saw Greek numbers on my car and it was young TC that stoned my car ones and shouted at me Giaur.

Who is to be blamed for all this, who is the real enemy?

The enemy is in our hearts! But how did “he” enter our hearts is the problem. We have grown in a country where hate for the other is natural. From school age we have learned that behind the barricades lives a barbarian enemy ready to destroy us. The TC said to his children “This they did to us in 1963”. The GC said to his children “This they did to us in 1974”. For decades the hatred is been maintained by people like most of you that sit on this forum and have a blood shed contest “Who killed more, who is to be blamed the most”.
The question is, do both sides have dead missing and refugees? The answer is Yes. Then both sides need to make that step of apology forgiveness and reconciliation.
Why does the TC accept me? Because with my documentary I gave my apology and they correctly felt that I understood there suffering and acknowledge “my side” of the wrong doing us a GC. If this continues on both sides then we can have some real reconciliation coming from the people to the people. To be able to do this we must be very bold on both sides to investigate our history and be brave enough to recognize our past errors because we are to be blamed not the grate powers. Even if they where involved, they would not be successful if we didn’t give them our hearts.

The politicians have proven that are not able to solve it, but the people are able if they overcome national pride and look history eyeball to eyeball with a humble spirit.

[magikthrill]

mr. agastiniotis is something wrong?

i believe you have forgotten to advertise your book/movie on this post. is everything ok?

[Bananiot]

Why the cinisism magicthrill? The last post of Angastiniotis is very balanced and shows a way forward for both communities. Unless you can come up with a better answer ...

[magikthrill]

more like a pseudo poetic story and why he thinks he's a hero. as if ew dont know thta turkish cypriot sand greek cypriots are the same? ive seen the hooked nose hairy beasts north and south of the ceasefire line. no difference there

[Bananiot]

I see ...