Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

http://www.klztlaw.com/news/landmark-de ... 11-09-2008

The Guardian was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island. According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
However, Turkish Cypriot refugees could reclaim possession and use of their immovable property in the south part of the island, but only if they reside in areas controlled by the Cyprus Government.

In Mr A's case, his property was not being held in safekeeping on his behalf pending a settlement of the Cyprus problem, but had been usurped and sold to foreigners.

[vaughanwilliams]

Get Real puts me in mind of a frightened youth hiding in a dark corner with a knife pretending that the whole world is afraid of him, they are not and you need help.His remarks regarding the plight of the Orams demonstrate that he is mean spirited and deviod of human feeling, or the milk of human kindness. Court rulings won't get you any land but I know a number of TCs who would be more than happy to give up the former GC houses they live in. All they want is their own homes in Paphos back. Who about it? Do you want to achieve something or just stay in your dark corner forever? You are sleepwalking into a Turkish state.Try to anwser without abuse if you are capable, but I doubt it.

The T/Cs with legally held deeds of properties anywhere in Cyprus remain the legal owners .Their properties have not been sold to foreigners by unscrupulous developers , the RoC holds their properties in trust , theirs to claim by meeting a very simple criteria . Residence in the RoC for six months.
Personally I do not entirely agree with the length of time required but while Turkey occupies the northern parts of Cyprus such requirements might be fundamental .

Miltiades, this rule is history. The RoC Attorney General's Office, as part of the out of court settlement of the Sofi case, has signed a declaration of intent to alter the system for Turkish Cypriots who wish to reclaim their property, including a revision of the six month rule.

Tim,

What about the "no restitution of property until there is a settlement of the Cyprob" rule? Surely, to make this a condition is to burden the claimant with something beyond their control? Mr. Apostilides and his representatives have clearly shown that they weren't prepared to wait that long. Why should anyone else?

It is news to me that there exists such a rule. How do you explain the phenomenon of a small number of Turkish Cypriots who have returned to live in their old properties, including a certain notorious gentleman who returned to his old house in Episkopi near Limassol after having pocketed the proceeds from selling two exchange properties?

Well the rule does exist according to the The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot Property, which was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island.
According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
My question is: If Mr. A wasn't prepared to wait that long, why should anyone else?

As has been pointed out to you TCs are getting their properties back, so this so called rule which you have provided no substantiation for, obviously doesn't exist/apply.

"...no substantiation..."
So isn't RoC law statute 139/1991 substantiation enough?

Show me the law.

My pleasure:
www.internal-displacement.org/.../Law+1 ... +Law+(2006)-English.doc -

[Tim Drayton]

As I see it, the RoC has a perfectly legitimate concern to prevent 'double dipping'. Solve that problem and there should be no obstacle to full and immediate restitution of TC property to its lawful owners.

[CBBB]

Get Real puts me in mind of a frightened youth hiding in a dark corner with a knife pretending that the whole world is afraid of him, they are not and you need help.His remarks regarding the plight of the Orams demonstrate that he is mean spirited and deviod of human feeling, or the milk of human kindness. Court rulings won't get you any land but I know a number of TCs who would be more than happy to give up the former GC houses they live in. All they want is their own homes in Paphos back. Who about it? Do you want to achieve something or just stay in your dark corner forever? You are sleepwalking into a Turkish state.Try to anwser without abuse if you are capable, but I doubt it.

The T/Cs with legally held deeds of properties anywhere in Cyprus remain the legal owners .Their properties have not been sold to foreigners by unscrupulous developers , the RoC holds their properties in trust , theirs to claim by meeting a very simple criteria . Residence in the RoC for six months.
Personally I do not entirely agree with the length of time required but while Turkey occupies the northern parts of Cyprus such requirements might be fundamental .

Miltiades, this rule is history. The RoC Attorney General's Office, as part of the out of court settlement of the Sofi case, has signed a declaration of intent to alter the system for Turkish Cypriots who wish to reclaim their property, including a revision of the six month rule.

Tim,

What about the "no restitution of property until there is a settlement of the Cyprob" rule? Surely, to make this a condition is to burden the claimant with something beyond their control? Mr. Apostilides and his representatives have clearly shown that they weren't prepared to wait that long. Why should anyone else?

It is news to me that there exists such a rule. How do you explain the phenomenon of a small number of Turkish Cypriots who have returned to live in their old properties, including a certain notorious gentleman who returned to his old house in Episkopi near Limassol after having pocketed the proceeds from selling two exchange properties?

Well the rule does exist according to the The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot Property, which was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island.
According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
My question is: If Mr. A wasn't prepared to wait that long, why should anyone else?

As has been pointed out to you TCs are getting their properties back, so this so called rule which you have provided no substantiation for, obviously doesn't exist/apply.

"...no substantiation..."
So isn't RoC law statute 139/1991 substantiation enough?

Show me the law.

My pleasure:
www.internal-displacement.org/.../Law+1 ... +Law+(2006)-English.doc -

What's the point in posting a link that doesn't work?

[Get Real!]

Now, if you’re a GC what exactly is the procedure for acquiring one’s occupied property?

Please explain in detail!

Pretty much the same as above

1. Follow the prescribed procedure in the north - goto the IPC
2. Failing that goto the ECHR.

Wrong! I asked for a procedure for acquiring one’s occupied property, not “compensation”!

[vaughanwilliams]

As I see it, the RoC has a perfectly legitimate concern to prevent 'double dipping'. Solve that problem and there should be no obstacle to full and immediate restitution of TC property to its lawful owners.

Tim,

How do you work that out?
If someone has sold their exchange property in the North (as was done to the Orams) they can always be taken to court for redress, as was Mr. O. There is no justification in holding onto something because you "suspect" something else. If their is a suspicion of double-dipping, it must be investigated. If it can be proved, fine. If it can't, give it back.
It's easy to say "solve that problem" when you don't suggest any way of solving it.

[vaughanwilliams]

Get Real puts me in mind of a frightened youth hiding in a dark corner with a knife pretending that the whole world is afraid of him, they are not and you need help.His remarks regarding the plight of the Orams demonstrate that he is mean spirited and deviod of human feeling, or the milk of human kindness. Court rulings won't get you any land but I know a number of TCs who would be more than happy to give up the former GC houses they live in. All they want is their own homes in Paphos back. Who about it? Do you want to achieve something or just stay in your dark corner forever? You are sleepwalking into a Turkish state.Try to anwser without abuse if you are capable, but I doubt it.

The T/Cs with legally held deeds of properties anywhere in Cyprus remain the legal owners .Their properties have not been sold to foreigners by unscrupulous developers , the RoC holds their properties in trust , theirs to claim by meeting a very simple criteria . Residence in the RoC for six months.
Personally I do not entirely agree with the length of time required but while Turkey occupies the northern parts of Cyprus such requirements might be fundamental .

Miltiades, this rule is history. The RoC Attorney General's Office, as part of the out of court settlement of the Sofi case, has signed a declaration of intent to alter the system for Turkish Cypriots who wish to reclaim their property, including a revision of the six month rule.

Tim,

What about the "no restitution of property until there is a settlement of the Cyprob" rule? Surely, to make this a condition is to burden the claimant with something beyond their control? Mr. Apostilides and his representatives have clearly shown that they weren't prepared to wait that long. Why should anyone else?

It is news to me that there exists such a rule. How do you explain the phenomenon of a small number of Turkish Cypriots who have returned to live in their old properties, including a certain notorious gentleman who returned to his old house in Episkopi near Limassol after having pocketed the proceeds from selling two exchange properties?

Well the rule does exist according to the The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot Property, which was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island.
According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
My question is: If Mr. A wasn't prepared to wait that long, why should anyone else?

As has been pointed out to you TCs are getting their properties back, so this so called rule which you have provided no substantiation for, obviously doesn't exist/apply.

"...no substantiation..."
So isn't RoC law statute 139/1991 substantiation enough?

Show me the law.

My pleasure:
www.internal-displacement.org/.../Law+1 ... +Law+(2006)-English.doc -

What's the point in posting a link that doesn't work?

Not sure if this link is any better, otherwise Google it, like I did.

http://www.internal-displacement.org/80 ... pDocuments)/584859449F87A49CC12573A80058C065/$file/Law+139-1991+Custodian+Law+(2006)-English.doc

[Tim Drayton]

As I see it, the RoC has a perfectly legitimate concern to prevent 'double dipping'. Solve that problem and there should be no obstacle to full and immediate restitution of TC property to its lawful owners.

Tim,

How do you work that out?
If someone has sold their exchange property in the North (as was done to the Orams) they can always be taken to court for redress, as was Mr. O. There is no justification in holding onto something because you "suspect" something else. If their is a suspicion of double-dipping, it must be investigated. If it can be proved, fine. If it can't, give it back.
It's easy to say "solve that problem" when you don't suggest any way of solving it.

Somebody sells property to which they were given title under the "ITEM" law on the basis that they have abandoned their claim to their property in the south, puts the money in their pocket and then goes back to re-acquire the orginal property in the south. This to me is wrong. That's how I work that out.

[CBBB]

Get Real puts me in mind of a frightened youth hiding in a dark corner with a knife pretending that the whole world is afraid of him, they are not and you need help.His remarks regarding the plight of the Orams demonstrate that he is mean spirited and deviod of human feeling, or the milk of human kindness. Court rulings won't get you any land but I know a number of TCs who would be more than happy to give up the former GC houses they live in. All they want is their own homes in Paphos back. Who about it? Do you want to achieve something or just stay in your dark corner forever? You are sleepwalking into a Turkish state.Try to anwser without abuse if you are capable, but I doubt it.

The T/Cs with legally held deeds of properties anywhere in Cyprus remain the legal owners .Their properties have not been sold to foreigners by unscrupulous developers , the RoC holds their properties in trust , theirs to claim by meeting a very simple criteria . Residence in the RoC for six months.
Personally I do not entirely agree with the length of time required but while Turkey occupies the northern parts of Cyprus such requirements might be fundamental .

Miltiades, this rule is history. The RoC Attorney General's Office, as part of the out of court settlement of the Sofi case, has signed a declaration of intent to alter the system for Turkish Cypriots who wish to reclaim their property, including a revision of the six month rule.

Tim,

What about the "no restitution of property until there is a settlement of the Cyprob" rule? Surely, to make this a condition is to burden the claimant with something beyond their control? Mr. Apostilides and his representatives have clearly shown that they weren't prepared to wait that long. Why should anyone else?

It is news to me that there exists such a rule. How do you explain the phenomenon of a small number of Turkish Cypriots who have returned to live in their old properties, including a certain notorious gentleman who returned to his old house in Episkopi near Limassol after having pocketed the proceeds from selling two exchange properties?

Well the rule does exist according to the The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot Property, which was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island.
According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
My question is: If Mr. A wasn't prepared to wait that long, why should anyone else?

As has been pointed out to you TCs are getting their properties back, so this so called rule which you have provided no substantiation for, obviously doesn't exist/apply.

"...no substantiation..."
So isn't RoC law statute 139/1991 substantiation enough?

Show me the law.

My pleasure:
www.internal-displacement.org/.../Law+1 ... +Law+(2006)-English.doc -

What's the point in posting a link that doesn't work?

Not sure if this link is any better, otherwise Google it, like I did.

http://www.internal-displacement.org/80 ... pDocuments)/584859449F87A49CC12573A80058C065/$file/Law+139-1991+Custodian+Law+(2006)-English.doc

No that doesn't work either, but I found it anyway. What it is saying is that the law is in force until a solution is found, not that TCs can't have their property back until then.

[vaughanwilliams]

Get Real puts me in mind of a frightened youth hiding in a dark corner with a knife pretending that the whole world is afraid of him, they are not and you need help.His remarks regarding the plight of the Orams demonstrate that he is mean spirited and deviod of human feeling, or the milk of human kindness. Court rulings won't get you any land but I know a number of TCs who would be more than happy to give up the former GC houses they live in. All they want is their own homes in Paphos back. Who about it? Do you want to achieve something or just stay in your dark corner forever? You are sleepwalking into a Turkish state.Try to anwser without abuse if you are capable, but I doubt it.

The T/Cs with legally held deeds of properties anywhere in Cyprus remain the legal owners .Their properties have not been sold to foreigners by unscrupulous developers , the RoC holds their properties in trust , theirs to claim by meeting a very simple criteria . Residence in the RoC for six months.
Personally I do not entirely agree with the length of time required but while Turkey occupies the northern parts of Cyprus such requirements might be fundamental .

Miltiades, this rule is history. The RoC Attorney General's Office, as part of the out of court settlement of the Sofi case, has signed a declaration of intent to alter the system for Turkish Cypriots who wish to reclaim their property, including a revision of the six month rule.

Tim,

What about the "no restitution of property until there is a settlement of the Cyprob" rule? Surely, to make this a condition is to burden the claimant with something beyond their control? Mr. Apostilides and his representatives have clearly shown that they weren't prepared to wait that long. Why should anyone else?

It is news to me that there exists such a rule. How do you explain the phenomenon of a small number of Turkish Cypriots who have returned to live in their old properties, including a certain notorious gentleman who returned to his old house in Episkopi near Limassol after having pocketed the proceeds from selling two exchange properties?

Well the rule does exist according to the The Guardian of Turkish Cypriot Property, which was set up, by the law 139/1991 as the caretaker of properties belonging to Turkish Cypriot refugees due to the extant circumstances i.e. the continuing division of the island.
According to the law: the Guardian takes over the property and when the Cyprus problem is resolved it is handed back to its legal owners in the state it had been received.
My question is: If Mr. A wasn't prepared to wait that long, why should anyone else?

As has been pointed out to you TCs are getting their properties back, so this so called rule which you have provided no substantiation for, obviously doesn't exist/apply.

"...no substantiation..."
So isn't RoC law statute 139/1991 substantiation enough?

Show me the law.

My pleasure:
www.internal-displacement.org/.../Law+1 ... +Law+(2006)-English.doc -

What's the point in posting a link that doesn't work?

Not sure if this link is any better, otherwise Google it, like I did.

http://www.internal-displacement.org/80 ... pDocuments)/584859449F87A49CC12573A80058C065/$file/Law+139-1991+Custodian+Law+(2006)-English.doc

No that doesn't work either, but I found it anyway. What it is saying is that the law is in force until a solution is found, not that TCs can't have their property back until then.

And what does that law say?