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The descendents of Cypriots

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The descendents of Cypriots

Postby mem101 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:45 pm

"When the Ottomans took control of Cyprus from the Venetians in 1573, they left a large garrison of soldiers and their families. In addition, there were some Turkic tribes in Anatolia, insubordinate to Ottoman rule, who were deported to Cyprus, as well as some other Anatolians who voluntarily migrated to Cyprus. These people made up the initial Muslim colonists, however, these people are not the only ancestors of today's Turkish Cypriot population by a long way and almost certainly not our villagers' ancestors.

One of the Ottoman Empire's policies after conquering new lands was to allow complete religious freedom - at the cost of a non-Muslim tax, which by my understanding was no trivial amount. It was the empire's way of funding its armies and Sultans' gown and crowns (a bit like speed cameras in the UK today). Less trivial still was the particular disfavour of the Catholic Church, a symptom of which was the slaughter of many. So naturally there were converts to the Islamic faith but, more interestingly, there were groups of people, everywhere but particularly in Dilirga and Louroudjina, who were outwardly Muslim but secretly continued to practise Christianity (most likely under the Catholic Church since our ancestors all have Italian surnames but could just as easily be the Greek Orthodox Church). These people were known as the Linobambaki, which means "cotton and linen" expressing their two sides.

The Linobambaki were predominantly Latin and Maronite (Arab Christian) Cypriots. The Latins (and Maronites?) were Roman Catholic and can be traced back to the Roman period (a long time ago!). On a side note, there are still about 1000 people in Cyprus today who call themselves "Latin Cypriots."

The Linobambaki began to decline with the rise of nationalism in the mid 19th century. And despite maintaining this double-sided way of life for centuries, most remaining Linobambaki were fully "Turkified" by the end of World War I. I find it funny how "Christian," "Muslim," and "Linobambaki" became "Greek" and "Turkish." One source states that most of todays Turkish Cypriots are descended from this sect. Most of the "true" Muslims migrated to Anatolia when the British took over administration of Cyprus.

I haven't been able to find when the village was founded but there's indisputable evidence of people living in Cyprus as far back as the stone age, 10,000 years ago, so I think it's safe to say that people have been living in the area now known as Louroudjina/Akincilar for a very long time! It's also had an extremely colourful history of colonisation and passing from hand to hand both in the name of peace and by forceful means by a plethora of peoples, empires, kings, name it.

There was a genetic study performed comparing Turkish, Greek, Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot genes. The results found that the Cypriots are essentially from the same gene pool, differing from the "mainland" counterparts. What do I conclude from this? I'd guarantee that there are lines descending from colonists from all the major empires who have conquered our island. But I'd also love to take a bet that you could trace many of our lines back thousands of years and all in Cyprus.

This is a broad summary of my own personal incomprehensive study of our origins, and my opinions and knowledge are continually developing. Our island and our village in particular have an incredible history. A rich history about people trying to live, simply, in large and hostile world. And I feel very proud also, that in the face of adversity, the people of our small village on our small, forever disputed island are standing the test of time, when great nations have risen and fallen."

This is an article I wrote a year or so ago. I post it here now because I've recently seen people referring to Greek and Turkish Cypriots as separate ethnic groups, which I find somewhat offensive given the real truth of the matter. I am a Cypriot. I don't care for any additional label. Perhaps you could call me a Turkish speaking Cypriot. But then English speaking Cypriot would probably be a better definition since English is my first language.

Furthermore, Cyprus has never been Greek nor has it ever been Turkish. It has been a part of "Greek" and "Turkish" empires in the past and the majority of its inhabitants have spoken Greek for the majority of its history. During the rise of nationalism an injection of nationalistic education created a false identification of its people with Greece and Turkey.

But Cypriots are not from Greece or from Turkey, nor are they descended from people from those lands. They are descended from people who were from Cyprus. Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots.

It's difficult to shed ourselves of the Greek and Turkish labels entirely all at once. It's difficult to bring down the walls. But it is what we should do. One brick at a time, with care and understanding that removing the wrong bricks at the wrong time can cause disaster.

I want to say I am a Cypriot, and for all other Cypriots to feel a kinship with me. If we of the same small island can feel this, perhaps there is hope for humanity as a whole after all.
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Postby NEVERSAYNEVER » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:53 pm

An excellent article my dear fellow compatriot !
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Postby bill cobbett » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:59 pm

Welcome back mem101...

Very interesting and hopeful article... but if may about these Luci... Lurigionidian Linobambaki lot... am no expert in the dialect but prefer the translation of "bambaki", or "bambajee" in the dialect, as "cotton-wool", the fluffy type.
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Re: The descendents of Cypriots

Postby antifon » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:08 am

mem101 wrote:"When the Ottomans took control of Cyprus from the Venetians in 1573, they left a large garrison of soldiers and their families. In addition, there were some Turkic tribes in Anatolia, insubordinate to Ottoman rule, who were deported to Cyprus, as well as some other Anatolians who voluntarily migrated to Cyprus. These people made up the initial Muslim colonists, however, these people are not the only ancestors of today's Turkish Cypriot population by a long way and almost certainly not our villagers' ancestors.

One of the Ottoman Empire's policies after conquering new lands was to allow complete religious freedom - at the cost of a non-Muslim tax, which by my understanding was no trivial amount. It was the empire's way of funding its armies and Sultans' gown and crowns (a bit like speed cameras in the UK today). Less trivial still was the particular disfavour of the Catholic Church, a symptom of which was the slaughter of many. So naturally there were converts to the Islamic faith but, more interestingly, there were groups of people, everywhere but particularly in Dilirga and Louroudjina, who were outwardly Muslim but secretly continued to practise Christianity (most likely under the Catholic Church since our ancestors all have Italian surnames but could just as easily be the Greek Orthodox Church). These people were known as the Linobambaki, which means "cotton and linen" expressing their two sides.

The Linobambaki were predominantly Latin and Maronite (Arab Christian) Cypriots. The Latins (and Maronites?) were Roman Catholic and can be traced back to the Roman period (a long time ago!). On a side note, there are still about 1000 people in Cyprus today who call themselves "Latin Cypriots."

The Linobambaki began to decline with the rise of nationalism in the mid 19th century. And despite maintaining this double-sided way of life for centuries, most remaining Linobambaki were fully "Turkified" by the end of World War I. I find it funny how "Christian," "Muslim," and "Linobambaki" became "Greek" and "Turkish." One source states that most of todays Turkish Cypriots are descended from this sect. Most of the "true" Muslims migrated to Anatolia when the British took over administration of Cyprus.

I haven't been able to find when the village was founded but there's indisputable evidence of people living in Cyprus as far back as the stone age, 10,000 years ago, so I think it's safe to say that people have been living in the area now known as Louroudjina/Akincilar for a very long time! It's also had an extremely colourful history of colonisation and passing from hand to hand both in the name of peace and by forceful means by a plethora of peoples, empires, kings, name it.

There was a genetic study performed comparing Turkish, Greek, Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot genes. The results found that the Cypriots are essentially from the same gene pool, differing from the "mainland" counterparts. What do I conclude from this? I'd guarantee that there are lines descending from colonists from all the major empires who have conquered our island. But I'd also love to take a bet that you could trace many of our lines back thousands of years and all in Cyprus.

This is a broad summary of my own personal incomprehensive study of our origins, and my opinions and knowledge are continually developing. Our island and our village in particular have an incredible history. A rich history about people trying to live, simply, in large and hostile world. And I feel very proud also, that in the face of adversity, the people of our small village on our small, forever disputed island are standing the test of time, when great nations have risen and fallen."

This is an article I wrote a year or so ago. I post it here now because I've recently seen people referring to Greek and Turkish Cypriots as separate ethnic groups, which I find somewhat offensive given the real truth of the matter. I am a Cypriot. I don't care for any additional label. Perhaps you could call me a Turkish speaking Cypriot. But then English speaking Cypriot would probably be a better definition since English is my first language.

Furthermore, Cyprus has never been Greek nor has it ever been Turkish. It has been a part of "Greek" and "Turkish" empires in the past and the majority of its inhabitants have spoken Greek for the majority of its history. During the rise of nationalism an injection of nationalistic education created a false identification of its people with Greece and Turkey.

But Cypriots are not from Greece or from Turkey, nor are they descended from people from those lands. They are descended from people who were from Cyprus. Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots.

It's difficult to shed ourselves of the Greek and Turkish labels entirely all at once. It's difficult to bring down the walls. But it is what we should do. One brick at a time, with care and understanding that removing the wrong bricks at the wrong time can cause disaster.

I want to say I am a Cypriot, and for all other Cypriots to feel a kinship with me. If we of the same small island can feel this, perhaps there is hope for humanity as a whole after all.



Nice post.

It would be better though if you came forth and clarified whether you, as tCypriots, feel you deserve 1960 "equality" or an Anan type formalization of division?

If so, then it does not matter what you say. All this is interesting academic mumbo jumbo. We are tired of your words. We want deeds.

Get out of our homes! Allow the majority of Cypriots to chart the way forward & stop acting like obstinate Karpaz donkeys. We are losing our patience fast with your unabated hypocrisy and lack of reason.

Your 90% majority authentic Cypriot compatriot who feels that from day one you stood against him! If we wanted union with Greece or even Mars, that's the way it should have been.

Who the bloody hell are you?

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Re: The descendents of Cypriots

Postby denizaksulu » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:11 am

mem101 wrote:"When the Ottomans took control of Cyprus from the Venetians in 1573, they left a large garrison of soldiers and their families. In addition, there were some Turkic tribes in Anatolia, insubordinate to Ottoman rule, who were deported to Cyprus, as well as some other Anatolians who voluntarily migrated to Cyprus. These people made up the initial Muslim colonists, however, these people are not the only ancestors of today's Turkish Cypriot population by a long way and almost certainly not our villagers' ancestors.

One of the Ottoman Empire's policies after conquering new lands was to allow complete religious freedom - at the cost of a non-Muslim tax, which by my understanding was no trivial amount. It was the empire's way of funding its armies and Sultans' gown and crowns (a bit like speed cameras in the UK today). Less trivial still was the particular disfavour of the Catholic Church, a symptom of which was the slaughter of many. So naturally there were converts to the Islamic faith but, more interestingly, there were groups of people, everywhere but particularly in Dilirga and Louroudjina, who were outwardly Muslim but secretly continued to practise Christianity (most likely under the Catholic Church since our ancestors all have Italian surnames but could just as easily be the Greek Orthodox Church). These people were known as the Linobambaki, which means "cotton and linen" expressing their two sides.

The Linobambaki were predominantly Latin and Maronite (Arab Christian) Cypriots. The Latins (and Maronites?) were Roman Catholic and can be traced back to the Roman period (a long time ago!). On a side note, there are still about 1000 people in Cyprus today who call themselves "Latin Cypriots."

The Linobambaki began to decline with the rise of nationalism in the mid 19th century. And despite maintaining this double-sided way of life for centuries, most remaining Linobambaki were fully "Turkified" by the end of World War I. I find it funny how "Christian," "Muslim," and "Linobambaki" became "Greek" and "Turkish." One source states that most of todays Turkish Cypriots are descended from this sect. Most of the "true" Muslims migrated to Anatolia when the British took over administration of Cyprus.

I haven't been able to find when the village was founded but there's indisputable evidence of people living in Cyprus as far back as the stone age, 10,000 years ago, so I think it's safe to say that people have been living in the area now known as Louroudjina/Akincilar for a very long time! It's also had an extremely colourful history of colonisation and passing from hand to hand both in the name of peace and by forceful means by a plethora of peoples, empires, kings, name it.

There was a genetic study performed comparing Turkish, Greek, Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot genes. The results found that the Cypriots are essentially from the same gene pool, differing from the "mainland" counterparts. What do I conclude from this? I'd guarantee that there are lines descending from colonists from all the major empires who have conquered our island. But I'd also love to take a bet that you could trace many of our lines back thousands of years and all in Cyprus.

This is a broad summary of my own personal incomprehensive study of our origins, and my opinions and knowledge are continually developing. Our island and our village in particular have an incredible history. A rich history about people trying to live, simply, in large and hostile world. And I feel very proud also, that in the face of adversity, the people of our small village on our small, forever disputed island are standing the test of time, when great nations have risen and fallen."

This is an article I wrote a year or so ago. I post it here now because I've recently seen people referring to Greek and Turkish Cypriots as separate ethnic groups, which I find somewhat offensive given the real truth of the matter. I am a Cypriot. I don't care for any additional label. Perhaps you could call me a Turkish speaking Cypriot. But then English speaking Cypriot would probably be a better definition since English is my first language.

Furthermore, Cyprus has never been Greek nor has it ever been Turkish. It has been a part of "Greek" and "Turkish" empires in the past and the majority of its inhabitants have spoken Greek for the majority of its history. During the rise of nationalism an injection of nationalistic education created a false identification of its people with Greece and Turkey.

But Cypriots are not from Greece or from Turkey, nor are they descended from people from those lands. They are descended from people who were from Cyprus. Cyprus belongs to all Cypriots.

It's difficult to shed ourselves of the Greek and Turkish labels entirely all at once. It's difficult to bring down the walls. But it is what we should do. One brick at a time, with care and understanding that removing the wrong bricks at the wrong time can cause disaster.

I want to say I am a Cypriot, and for all other Cypriots to feel a kinship with me. If we of the same small island can feel this, perhaps there is hope for humanity as a whole after all.


I concur with you on most of the points you make, but not all Turkish descendants left the island after the British take over or Lausanne. But I do believe that most of the TCs in Cyprus do have their roots way beyond 1571.
Having many friends from Lurucina and some distant relations (by marriage) I agree with your points and the proof of the pudding is right there. Just look at the surnames.

... welcome back to cf...I can't remember if we have had the pleasure of meeting before. :lol: :lol:
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Postby mem101 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:33 am

The 1960 constitution based on strict percentages of TCs and GCs in government was flawed and still is and I don't think anything like that could ever work. It maintains the "us" and "them" feeling and does little to promote union. I don't think the Annan Plan was a formalisation of division at all and I personally believed it could have been workable. That doesn't matter though, because it was voted down. The people didn't want it and that's fine. I am in favour of taking steps towards a unified Cyprus. The steps should rebuild trust between people on both sides of the cease fire line and have clear goals. In short, some form of short term federation leading to a unified Cyprus whether it has one state or two. But this is just my opinion and I am no expert in law or politics. I am open to other ideas and suggestions.

I am not in possession of any of your deeds. I am not even in possession of deeds which are rightfully mine and even if I was their usefulness and value has been suffering immensely for decades because the land is surrounded by the Green Line and Turkish military bases. Do you think that makes me happy? Do you think it makes me happy that you don't have your deeds?

You didn't seem to understand my point. I am afraid you are not 90% and I am not 10%. We are each one citizen. You cannot vote for every "Greek" Cypriot, just yourself. Who the bloody hell am I? One Cypriot citizen, not one tenth of a citizen. So who the bloody hell are you?
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Postby mem101 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:35 am

Thanks to Bill, NeverSayNever and Deniz for the welcomes back.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:26 am

thank-you mem101, sensitive and thought provoking, Cypriots, beyond "Greeks" and "Turks"; much older.
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Postby DT. » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:10 am

repulsewarrior wrote:thank-you mem101, sensitive and thought provoking, Cypriots, beyond "Greeks" and "Turks"; much older.


Read his manifesto :lol:
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Postby Bananiot » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:59 am

Thank you mem, excellent post.
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