Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

Don't know if natural gas is cheaper than wind.

Well it is… the Bloomberg report says so. In fact it says it is so cheap that they are cancelling wind projects because they are simply uneconomic.

The video that sotos posted says so too – the guy lost $150M on wind projects and says gas is cheaper and will last for decades.

Cheaper, cleaner than coal and available 100% of the time – not ~30% like wind.

All I know is that a combination of all sources of power production, including wind, solar etc is required to satisfy our increasing demand for energy.

No it isn’t.

What is required is a sufficient quantity of the cheapest and most reliable energy sources.

There is no advantage to adding wind generating capacity to the mix as it just requires us to pay twice for the capacity we need.

Wind is only ‘popular’ because vast profits can be made from the subsidies that it attracts – even when it isn’t working. Those subsidies are paid for by the taxpayer and in these tough times we just can’t afford the ‘luxury’ of inefficient wind projects.

Still, all of the above is not enough, We need more of them.
We don't have the luxury to exclude some of them because Grump does not like them!

As above. We don’t need more of them – there is no advantage to adding more power sources if they are expensive and unreliable.

It is not that I don’t like them – it is because they make no economic sense whatsoever.

I rest my case

It isn’t a very strong one is it…?

[CBBB]

Bring on nuclear fusion in a jam jar!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... alsciences

[georgios100]

Hey Grump,

Here's a solution for you... You could take a picture of the view from your window, delete the Wind Turbines using photoshop, print it, enlarge it, then glue it to your kitchen window...
That way, all the rational people can enjoy renewable energy, and you can still have your precious view.

Aesthetics are one thing, energy and pollution are something else.

[cyprusgrump]

Hey Grump,

Here's a solution for you... You could take a picture of the view from your window, delete the Wind Turbines using photoshop, print it, enlarge it, then glue it to your kitchen window...
That way, all the rational people can enjoy renewable energy, and you can still have your precious view.

Aesthetics are one thing, energy and pollution are something else.

Indeed...

I could could shut my lens down to F/22 and use a long exposure to take the picture - and the turbine blades still wouldn't be blurred because they haven't moved for most of this week!

It is windy this evening though - perhaps too windy - who knows? We'll be paying for the subsidy to the wind farm if the wind blows too much or too little.

I'lll be paying twice for it and even the rational people (like myself) wouldn't have benefited in any way shape or form from the wind farm that blights my view and kills birds... When the wildlife/game guy came to the village to investigate netting of birds and lime ticks last year he was moaning about how the wind farm was built on the migration route and how many it would kill....

And as you said in an earlier post: -

Look, Cyprus is not the ideal place to harness wind power due to relatively low wind speeds. The few turbines installed are fine since 5-6 m/s turbine models were installed. Perhaps more solar installations should be examined.

Yet you still try and insist that rational people will 'enjoy renewable energy' (your words) even though you state that 'Cyprus is not the ideal place to harness wind power'...?

Nobody will 'enjoy renewable energy' because everybody will have to pay through the nose for it... So when I fit the photoshopped picture of my view over my kitchen window and have to put the light on indoors (because it is now dark) it will cost me much, much more than it would have because of the subsidies paid to the owner of the wind farm...

I guess as a beneficiary of the 'green revolution' you think that is quite acceptable...?

[georgios100]

Wind power subsidies is just one of the 100s provided by the ROC. The list goes on and on.
Right down to the potable water due to the high cost of desalination. I realized that your solar hot water was subsidized
along many others, too many to mention. Essentially, you are getting back your "green" levy at least 3 times over.

One would wonder why so much bitching about wind subsidies and no complains about the other subsidies you enjoy.
Double standards perhaps?

The solar panels installations are subsidized 55% if not mistaken. KW per KW comparison shows that monies spend on solar
could provide as much as triple the amount of energy production if wind was chosen (wind speeds 5-6 m/s minimum). Solar payback estimated at 10 years
while wind is 7 years. The energy produced can be sold to the electric company or used for your home to reduce or even eliminate the related billing.

Seriously, I don't think you know or understand how renewables can better your life. You should get down to the numbers and refrain from the constant complaining. Do the math and see for yourself if these green energies are a scam. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Cypriot companies that provide these services therefore cannot recommend anyone.

Happy to see you still maintain a good sense of humor.

[cyprusgrump]

Wind power subsidies is just one of the 100s provided by the ROC. The list goes on and on.
Right down to the potable water due to the high cost of desalination. I realized that your solar hot water was subsidized
along many others, too many to mention. Essentially, you are getting back your "green" levy at least 3 times over.

One would wonder why so much bitching about wind subsidies and no complains about the other subsidies you enjoy.
Double standards perhaps?

The solar panels installations are subsidized 55% if not mistaken. KW per KW comparison shows that monies spend on solar
could provide as much as triple the amount of energy production if wind was chosen (wind speeds 5-6 m/s minimum). Solar payback estimated at 10 years
while wind is 7 years. The energy produced can be sold to the electric company or used for your home to reduce or even eliminate the related billing.

Seriously, I don't think you know or understand how renewables can better your life. You should get down to the numbers and refrain from the constant complaining. Do the math and see for yourself if these green energies are a scam. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Cypriot companies that provide these services therefore cannot recommend anyone.

Happy to see you still maintain a good sense of humor.

I've been 'down to the numbers' which is why I am complaining!

I have a solar panel installation on my roof which heats hot water... I paid for it myself and as far as I am aware it is not subsidised. Almost all the houses in Cyprus have them (apart from a few developments that I know of where they are considered 'unsightly'... It makes sense to use them because they are cheap to manufacture and install, they are simple, there is sun almost every day and because its never really gets that cold the hot water tank can sit on the roof and they self-circulate. Two small panels on the roof provide enough hot water for the entire house... To summarise, they are cheap, provide free hot water and last pretty much forever.

On the other hand, the PV panels that you mention are very different. They are expensive to manufacture, they require complex electronics, they don't work too well when they are hot (as you mentioned earlier). The panels have a limited life span and they require a significant amount of space for a reasonable supply. To summarise they are expensive and not very efficient.

The reason why PV installations get a subsidy is that nobody in their right mind would install them without it! You might be interested to know that people that are keen to invest in large PV arrays here (because of the huge subsidy they attract) cannot get grants to install because all of the allocated money has been spent on the wind farms...

So the reason that I am 'bitching' as you rather unfairly put it, is that I am paying for others to make money out of the climate scam by installing inefficient wind farms and solar arrays that attract vast amounts of tax-payers money to subsidise them.

It is disingenuous of you to suggest that I 'don’t know or understand how renewables can better (my) life’ simply because I disagree with you.

Unlike many that you can put down by ‘refrain from the constant complaining’, I have done the numbers and it is obvious that renewables are not bettering my life. Unless you are one of the fortunate few in receipt of the large subsidies that renewable energy attracts, you are one of the unfortunate many that is paying for it.

[CBBB]

Wind power subsidies is just one of the 100s provided by the ROC. The list goes on and on.
Right down to the potable water due to the high cost of desalination. I realized that your solar hot water was subsidized
along many others, too many to mention. Essentially, you are getting back your "green" levy at least 3 times over.

One would wonder why so much bitching about wind subsidies and no complains about the other subsidies you enjoy.
Double standards perhaps?

The solar panels installations are subsidized 55% if not mistaken. KW per KW comparison shows that monies spend on solar
could provide as much as triple the amount of energy production if wind was chosen (wind speeds 5-6 m/s minimum). Solar payback estimated at 10 years
while wind is 7 years. The energy produced can be sold to the electric company or used for your home to reduce or even eliminate the related billing.

Seriously, I don't think you know or understand how renewables can better your life. You should get down to the numbers and refrain from the constant complaining. Do the math and see for yourself if these green energies are a scam. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Cypriot companies that provide these services therefore cannot recommend anyone.

Happy to see you still maintain a good sense of humor.

I've been 'down to the numbers' which is why I am complaining!

I have a solar panel installation on my roof which heats hot water... I paid for it myself and as far as I am aware it is not subsidised. Almost all the houses in Cyprus have them (apart from a few developments that I know of where they are considered 'unsightly'... It makes sense to use them because they are cheap to manufacture and install, they are simple, there is sun almost every day and because its never really gets that cold the hot water tank can sit on the roof and they self-circulate. Two small panels on the roof provide enough hot water for the entire house... To summarise, they are cheap, provide free hot water and last pretty much forever.

On the other hand, the PV panels that you mention are very different. They are expensive to manufacture, they require complex electronics, they don't work too well when they are hot (as you mentioned earlier). The panels have a limited life span and they require a significant amount of space for a reasonable supply. To summarise they are expensive and not very efficient.

The reason why PV installations get a subsidy is that nobody in their right mind would install them without it! You might be interested to know that people that are keen to invest in large PV arrays here (because of the huge subsidy they attract) cannot get grants to install because all of the allocated money has been spent on the wind farms...

So the reason that I am 'bitching' as you rather unfairly put it, is that I am paying for others to make money out of the climate scam by installing inefficient wind farms and solar arrays that attract vast amounts of tax-payers money to subsidise them.

It is disingenuous of you to suggest that I 'don’t know or understand how renewables can better (my) life’ simply because I disagree with you.

Unlike many that you can put down by ‘refrain from the constant complaining’, I have done the numbers and it is obvious that renewables are not bettering my life. Unless you are one of the fortunate few in receipt of the large subsidies that renewable energy attracts, you are one of the unfortunate many that is paying for it.

Moan, moan, moan!!!!!

On a small point regarding the subsidies provided by the Government for alternative power generation and use of technology to reduce power consumption, the relevant Government agency for these doesn't know yet which ones will be available this year!!!! They hope to know by the end of this month, but I won't hold my breath.

[cyprusgrump]

Wind power subsidies is just one of the 100s provided by the ROC. The list goes on and on.
Right down to the potable water due to the high cost of desalination. I realized that your solar hot water was subsidized
along many others, too many to mention. Essentially, you are getting back your "green" levy at least 3 times over.

One would wonder why so much bitching about wind subsidies and no complains about the other subsidies you enjoy.
Double standards perhaps?

The solar panels installations are subsidized 55% if not mistaken. KW per KW comparison shows that monies spend on solar
could provide as much as triple the amount of energy production if wind was chosen (wind speeds 5-6 m/s minimum). Solar payback estimated at 10 years
while wind is 7 years. The energy produced can be sold to the electric company or used for your home to reduce or even eliminate the related billing.

Seriously, I don't think you know or understand how renewables can better your life. You should get down to the numbers and refrain from the constant complaining. Do the math and see for yourself if these green energies are a scam. Unfortunately, I don't know of any Cypriot companies that provide these services therefore cannot recommend anyone.

Happy to see you still maintain a good sense of humor.

I've been 'down to the numbers' which is why I am complaining!

I have a solar panel installation on my roof which heats hot water... I paid for it myself and as far as I am aware it is not subsidised. Almost all the houses in Cyprus have them (apart from a few developments that I know of where they are considered 'unsightly'... It makes sense to use them because they are cheap to manufacture and install, they are simple, there is sun almost every day and because its never really gets that cold the hot water tank can sit on the roof and they self-circulate. Two small panels on the roof provide enough hot water for the entire house... To summarise, they are cheap, provide free hot water and last pretty much forever.

On the other hand, the PV panels that you mention are very different. They are expensive to manufacture, they require complex electronics, they don't work too well when they are hot (as you mentioned earlier). The panels have a limited life span and they require a significant amount of space for a reasonable supply. To summarise they are expensive and not very efficient.

The reason why PV installations get a subsidy is that nobody in their right mind would install them without it! You might be interested to know that people that are keen to invest in large PV arrays here (because of the huge subsidy they attract) cannot get grants to install because all of the allocated money has been spent on the wind farms...

So the reason that I am 'bitching' as you rather unfairly put it, is that I am paying for others to make money out of the climate scam by installing inefficient wind farms and solar arrays that attract vast amounts of tax-payers money to subsidise them.

It is disingenuous of you to suggest that I 'don’t know or understand how renewables can better (my) life’ simply because I disagree with you.

Unlike many that you can put down by ‘refrain from the constant complaining’, I have done the numbers and it is obvious that renewables are not bettering my life. Unless you are one of the fortunate few in receipt of the large subsidies that renewable energy attracts, you are one of the unfortunate many that is paying for it.

Moan, moan, moan!!!!!

On a small point regarding the subsidies provided by the Government for alternative power generation and use of technology to reduce power consumption, the relevant Government agency for these doesn't know yet which ones will be available this year!!!! They hope to know by the end of this month, but I won't hold my breath.

The taxpayer will get fleeced whatever they choose so it doesn't really matter!

[Cap]

Check out the interior of the new Nicosia theater:

[kurupetos]

Very nice pictures Cap.