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The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:08 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:As for Evgoras Pallakarides according to some sources........? he was believed to...........? have been involved in the murder of a priest, the Abbot of the Chrysoroyiatissa.


Is that how colonial courts operated? Nice of you to admit it. "according to some sources" (informers perhaps????) and "he was believed to....". Any evidence? Witnesses?

Well, the truth is that he was found guilty on the only charges that they could through against him which were possessing and carrying of fire arms.
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:34 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:You are by the way in danger of legitimising by analogy any violent action in struggles of ethnic groups for self determination hitch could extend to eg that of the TSC for self determination where Takism is arguably a legitimate point of view ...


No, it is YOU who is trying to legitimise such an action by Turks!

Since you maintain EOKA was illegal, you are equating their legitimate struggle, supported by the majority of the island's natives, with that of an internationally recognised illegal action by a foreign invader (Taksim).

Taksim is equitable with colonialism. And conversely, that's why EOKA was a legitimate struggle for freedom.

And that's why people like you are bad for Cyprus!
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:43 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
As for Evgoras Pallakarides according to some sources he was ......


You really are a nasty piece of work with your feigned innocent way of spreading propaganda and lies.

Fortunately, most British people have given up excusing Britain's colonial past.
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:44 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:You are by the way in danger of legitimising by analogy any violent action in struggles of ethnic groups for self determination hitch could extend to eg that of the TSC for self determination where Takism is arguably a legitimate point of view ...


Self determination means ALL the people/citizens of a country vote into a referendum (no racial or other discrimination, no separate votes). And the majority prevails.
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:58 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:Not as low as back-shooting unarmed women in the street.


Well, since the topic has been derailed, I might as well say my opinion on the murder of D.J. Cutliffe you have been referring to time and again:

You are insulting our intelligence (and your own).

Are you really trying to make us believe that that Grivas would be so stupid as to order, approve, accept or even just ignore the gunning down/cold blooded murder of an innocent British woman, mother of seven children and the wounding of another one? Are you really asking us to believe that Grivas, a master in tactics and propaganda, could not predict what any moron would have predicted, i.e., the disastrous/negative impact that such a murder would have against him, against EOKA and against the Greeks and what strong a propaganda card it would offer to the British?
Let’s list some of the reactions and results that this murder caused:
1. It enraged the British troops and boosted their determination for combat and revenge, at a moment when their moral was at the lowest. Two civilians were murdered by a British military mob that same day (beaten to death) and two more died of heart attacks which they suffered during the beatings.
2. It enraged the British Public Opinion, including the British media, at a moment when doubts were growing strong in Britain about the correctness of the British policy in Cyprus and about the methods of the colonial forces on the Island.
3. It appalled the Greek Cypriots, the Greeks in Greece and the rest of the world.
4. It offered to the colonial authorities both the excuse they were seeking for the tightening of their oppressive methods as well as the alibi for the crimes they had committed till then and those to follow.
5. It defamed Grivas and EOKA.
6. It offered a very strong card to the British propaganda to defame EOKA and the Greek Cypriots even to this day (take your relevant posts for instance about EOKA being cowardly back shooters of women).
7. And last, but not least (take note of this one) it made the British even more sympathetic than before towards their “brothers in arms” (the Turkish Cypriots) and offered another to the colonial authorities another excuse for their cooperation with TMT thugs against EOKA and the Greek Cypriots.

So who could have done it?

As you know, Grivas condemned the murder immediately and denied that EOKA members had anything to do with it.

The mayor of Nicosia offered a 5,000 pound reward to anyone who would give information about the shooters.

Prominent Cypriot personalities accused the British secret services for master minding the murder so that by this they would achieve all above negative results against EOKA, the cause and the Greeks. Don’t tell me that such a thought is appalling because we all know how far the cynical colonial authorities and the secret services can go and have gone in order to achieve their goals. Is it possible that the victim chosen was an embarrassment to the British community in Cyprus at that time and thus “expendable”? Some Greek Minister, I remember having seen somewhere, did suggest that the motives of the murder had to do with some kind of an extra marital relation of the victim.

How about the TMT having planned and executed the murder in order to turn the Brits and the international public opinion in their favor and against the Greeks?

One can even claim that it was the work of some thugs who acted on their own for reasons no one will ever know.

Pick any of the three choices above.

But don’t you come in here again and tell me it was EOKA that planned and committed this murder. Because it was not and you know it! And certainly, you have no evidences or proof. Not even suspects.

P.S. 1. How do you explain that the shooters did not harm shoot/kill the 18 year old daughter of the victim who saw them, tried to stop them by throwing her arms at them and would be able to identify them in the event they would be caught and lined up for recognition?
2. How do you explain that, in their murderous frenzy, they did not finish off the wounded woman who would also be able to recognize them?
3. Such behavior tells me that the murderers were rather sure of themselves and certain that they would not be caught/questioned/brought to justice for their act.

Is there a sensible answer/explanation you can offer about all the above?
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:50 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Well the 203 were combatants in a foreign land and died for their Queen and country!

EOKA were legal combatants defending the human rights of the locals. They were the prelude to the CNG!

Collaborate, then you die! Pretty harsh, but them be the rules and everyone knew it and if not then they learn quickly!

I don't see the difference between this doctrine and organizations such as Mossad, KGB, CIA and SAS assassination teams or Drone attacks.

Wrong. EOKA killed 104 British service men, 51 police, and 238 civilians, including 203 Greek speaking Cypriots. The 203 were not foreign combatants. The 155 were a part of the then legitimate government.

The 203 had no trial, fair or otherwise.

I still hold that Eoka was an illegitimate terrorist organisation, not legal combatants. we will have to agree to differ.

Self rule was on offer in 1955 and that would have been a forerunner to independence which could have been achieved without the terrorism and the politics they threw up, including the divisive policies. if big Mak had played his cards right in 1955 he could have got one man one vote, no division along ethnic lines, And with independence he might then have been able to achieve enosis, but the Events of 1955 onwards killed that. The Eoka campaign had no point if it was to achieve independence, and it failed if it was to achieve Enosis.

You are by the way in danger of legitimising by analogy any violent action in struggles of ethnic groups for self determination hitch could extend to eg that of the TSC for self determination where Takism is arguably a legitimate point of view, provided violence is not used to force it , along with eg Scottish independence, neither of which I support bearing in mind they both involve the violation of the integrity of a nation, which in the case of Scotland and England was by a lawful union of crowns and parliament enacted by both the Scottish and English parliaments, where through inheritance the existing line of monarchs in Scotland had become the monarchs of England in 1603. James 1 of England was already James VI of Scotland.



.


This maybe a bit harsh for you, but it is just the way it is.

104 British Service men killed = all illegal on this island and legitimate combatants who were killed in battle. Fair game.

51 police = all collaborators to the British. When the EOKA campaign began, no Cypriot had the right to assist or collaborate with the enemy, and if they chose to do so, then they risk their lives. All 51 legitimate targets.

238 civilians = some legitimate targets as they collaborated with the British or worked for the British Forces in some capacity and some others were opportunistic murders from other third parties and collateral damage. Some were murdered by the British in the cross fire and blamed on EOKA in some twisted British logic which states that if it were not for EOKA then they would not be killed.

Any civilian collaborating with the British could result in more EOKA Fighters and supporters walking to the Gallows, being tortured or shot and killed by British Forces.

Personally, I see no issue at all. Either them or me and my mates.

Personally, I would have no hesitation in personally killing the old "Cypriot" shepherd that betrayed Gregory. People like that sign their own death certificate. If they betray once, then they will betray again.

Everyone knew the score. There can be no excuse.
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby kimon07 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:25 pm

Paphitis wrote:This maybe a bit harsh for you, but it is just the way it is.

104 British Service men killed......


No, no, no, no.

371 servicemen and 29 military-administration employees. That makes the round figure of 400.

Let alone colonial police (British, Turks, GC collaborators)

And like the BBC reported, more than in Iraq and Afghanistan put together.

Conclusion.

Considering that EOKA achieved one of its goals (military, I repeat, military victory over an Empire) EOKA was more effective than the tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan insurgents and the millions of their supporters in the Muslim world put together. Tremendous record for just 250 "back shooting" poorly equipped, poorly trained, totally isolated on a small island and totally unsupported by any outsider "cowards" I would say. Who had to fight on three fronts:

1. The British Empire.
2. The TMT (=Turkey)
3. AKEL.
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby Paphitis » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:24 pm

kimon07 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:This maybe a bit harsh for you, but it is just the way it is.

104 British Service men killed......


No, no, no, no.

371 servicemen and 29 military-administration employees. That makes the round figure of 400.

Let alone colonial police (British, Turks, GC collaborators)

And like the BBC reported, more than in Iraq and Afghanistan put together.

Conclusion.

Considering that EOKA achieved one of its goals (military, I repeat, military victory over an Empire) EOKA was more effective than the tens of thousands of Iraqi and Afghan insurgents and the millions of their supporters in the Muslim world put together. Tremendous record for just 250 "back shooting" poorly equipped, poorly trained, totally isolated on a small island and totally unsupported by any outsider "cowards" I would say. Who had to fight on three fronts:

1. The British Empire.
2. The TMT (=Turkey)
3. AKEL.


Let me make myself clear Kimon!

DO NOT bloody speak to me or even look in my direction because your bloody tit for tat and scorecard tally of the dead as if it denotes some kind of "victory" (you offer Iraq and Afghanistan as examples) is beyond contempt and absolutely deplorable and disgusting!

Both you and Oracle disgust me!

And STUD, you too can take a flying leap for attempting to dishonor the memory of the RoC's fallen Heroes!

Bugger off the lot of you! :roll:

Is that what it has come to? A friggin death tally! Bloody twit! :roll:
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby Cap » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:03 pm

You folks are getting way too serious.

Anyway.


Scared black people trapped inside house record pitbull humping their pillow. Comments soon turn to race. :lol:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2e5_1373 ... SuZPF0d.01
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Re: The Curse of Racism. Its Roots and Causes.

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:56 pm

Paphitis wrote:
supporttheunderdog wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Well the 203 were combatants in a foreign land and died for their Queen and country!

EOKA were legal combatants defending the human rights of the locals. They were the prelude to the CNG!

Collaborate, then you die! Pretty harsh, but them be the rules and everyone knew it and if not then they learn quickly!

I don't see the difference between this doctrine and organizations such as Mossad, KGB, CIA and SAS assassination teams or Drone attacks.

Wrong. EOKA killed 104 British service men, 51 police, and 238 civilians, including 203 Greek speaking Cypriots. The 203 were not foreign combatants. The 155 were a part of the then legitimate government.

The 203 had no trial, fair or otherwise.

I still hold that Eoka was an illegitimate terrorist organisation, not legal combatants. we will have to agree to differ.

Self rule was on offer in 1955 and that would have been a forerunner to independence which could have been achieved without the terrorism and the politics they threw up, including the divisive policies. if big Mak had played his cards right in 1955 he could have got one man one vote, no division along ethnic lines, And with independence he might then have been able to achieve enosis, but the Events of 1955 onwards killed that. The Eoka campaign had no point if it was to achieve independence, and it failed if it was to achieve Enosis.

You are by the way in danger of legitimising by analogy any violent action in struggles of ethnic groups for self determination hitch could extend to eg that of the TSC for self determination where Takism is arguably a legitimate point of view, provided violence is not used to force it , along with eg Scottish independence, neither of which I support bearing in mind they both involve the violation of the integrity of a nation, which in the case of Scotland and England was by a lawful union of crowns and parliament enacted by both the Scottish and English parliaments, where through inheritance the existing line of monarchs in Scotland had become the monarchs of England in 1603. James 1 of England was already James VI of Scotland.



.


This maybe a bit harsh for you, but it is just the way it is.

104 British Service men killed = all illegal on this island and legitimate combatants who were killed in battle. Fair game

Not illegal but serving the then lawful government.

51 police = all collaborators to the British. When the EOKA campaign began, no Cypriot had the right to assist or collaborate with the enemy, and if they chose to do so, then they risk their lives. All 51 legitimate targets.

All doing their duty to the then legal government and martyred.
238 civilians = some legitimate targets as they collaborated with the British or worked for the British Forces in some capacity and some others were opportunistic murders from other third parties and collateral damage. Some were murdered by the British in the cross fire and blamed on EOKA in some twisted British logic which states that if it were not for EOKA then they would not be killed.

Any civilian collaborating with the British could result in more EOKA Fighters and supporters walking to the Gallows, being tortured or shot and killed by British Forces. No more than Eoka terrorsist shitbag scum who killed people deserved. A trial and hanging.

Personally, I see no issue at all. Either them or me and my mates.

Personally, I would have no hesitation in personally killing the old "Cypriot" shepherd that betrayed Gregory. People like that sign their own death certificate. If they betray once, then they will betray again.

Everyone knew the score. There can be no excuse.

Yes the Eoka killers who got hung or killed in firefights knew the score. Good riddance to killers.
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