Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

There's a lot that doesn't ring true about the Bases being used by bird trappers.

It's just not true and it doesn't matter how much Milo screams she MUST tell us how sick we are ... sometimes, we can just tell what the Brits are really interested in.

You do love to display your ignorance do you not GIG ?

The SBA are made up of a tiny 'core', which is gated and guarded and a much larger surrounding area that is not gated, not guarded, not bordered and has residential housing, villages, worked fields, bare land and much more else besides in it. Why do illegal trappers trap in these areas ? Because it is a good trapping location. I could take you directly to plots on SBA territory, some even on SBA firing ranges, where there are planted rows of acacia trees (which have NO commercial use other than for bird trapping), that are complete with irrigation systems all set up just for trapping birds. I have seen these places with my own eyes. The same sites are used bi annually year after year. When the occasional raid is done, typically 5-6 illegal foreign workers get deported and some nets and other paraphernalia get confiscated and within days they are back in use again.

It is just a FACT that there is large scale indiscriminate trapping that goes on in Cyprus. On SBA controlled areas and on RoC controlled areas. It is just a plain fact that these activities, that bear no relation to 'traditional' trapping as done before 1960's for generations, cause real and material damage to a number of endangered species. As far as Cypriots are like you GIG, we will leave our children and grandchildren with a poorer environment than we could of, all to the benefit of mainly orgnaised criminal gangs and all in order to simply deny that Cypriots could ever be wrong in their attitudes to anything. Its pathetic.

[Get Real!]

If hunting was to be limited to every other year it would go a long way to help wildlife numbers recover.

[erolz66]

If hunting was to be limited to every other year it would go a long way to help wildlife numbers recover.

Just to be clear, hunting (legal and illegal) is a different issue from (illegal) trapping.

[GreekIslandGirl]

The SBA are made up of a tiny 'core', which is gated and guarded and a much larger surrounding area that is not gated, not guarded, not bordered and has residential housing, villages, worked fields, bare land and much more else besides in it. Why do illegal trappers trap in these areas ? Because it is a good trapping location. I could take you directly to plots on SBA territory, some even on SBA firing ranges, where there are planted rows of acacia trees (which have NO commercial use other than for bird trapping), that are complete with irrigation systems all set up just for trapping birds. I have seen these places with my own eyes. The same sites are used bi annually year after year. When the occasional raid is done, typically 5-6 illegal foreign workers get deported and some nets and other paraphernalia get confiscated and within days they are back in use again.

It is just a FACT that there is large scale indiscriminate trapping that goes on in Cyprus. On SBA controlled areas and on RoC controlled areas. It is just a plain fact that these activities, that bear no relation to 'traditional' trapping as done before 1960's for generations, cause real and material damage to a number of endangered species. As far as Cypriots are like you GIG, we will leave our children and grandchildren with a poorer environment than we could of, all to the benefit of mainly orgnaised criminal gangs and all in order to simply deny that Cypriots could ever be wrong in their attitudes to anything. Its pathetic.

Save your crocodile tears for Cyprus. If you really cared about Cyprus, there's some serious worries you should be concerned about and not an illegal activity which the RoC manages perfectly well. But, could manage BETTER if all bloody Turks left and the Base areas were administered by the RoC. How come it's only Turks and Brits who moan about this problem that has not actually materialized into hard evidence? Some illegals sent back? Any excuse, fine. You've seen irrigation sites. Big deal. We have them all over our fields. This is Cyprus. Still doesn't explain why anyone would go right in front of thousands of British soldiers to do this and nothing you have said has resolved that.

[erolz66]

Save your crocodile tears for Cyprus. If you really cared about Cyprus, there's some serious worries you should be concerned about and not an illegal activity which the RoC manages perfectly well. But, could manage BETTER if all bloody Turks left and the Base areas were administered by the RoC.

Just yet more denial and propaganda and bullshit. The 'gospel' according to GiG - GCs by definition can be doing no wrong because they are GC and where they are not as good as they could be its the fault of the 'bloody Turks' and the British. Pathetic as ever.

How come it's only Turks and Brits who moan about this problem that has not actually materialized into hard evidence?

I am a CYPRIOT and I 'moan' about this issue. Many other CYPRIOTS moan about this issue, but sadly too few compared to those like you who simply prefer denial of reality to acceptance of responsibility. As for 'hard evidence' there is copious hard evidence that illegal bird trapping in Cyprus as practiced today does real and material damage to a number of endangered species. There is no lack of hard evidence at all - there is just arrogant, self serving denial of such evidence by uniformed ignorant bigots like yourself, more is the shame.

You've seen irrigation sites. Big deal. We have them all over our fields. This is Cyprus. Still doesn't explain why anyone would go right in front of thousands of British soldiers to do this and nothing you have said has resolved that.

There is no commercial reason to plant and irrigate acacia trees other than illegal bird trapping. Your ignorance of your OWN country is astounding GiG. You can drive and walk for miles in SBA area (and crossing in and out of SBA) without seeing a single British solider - ever. Nor do British soldiers have ANY remit or authority or ability to question , detain or arrest civilians in Cyprus. Policing in the SBA areas is down to the SBA police (NOT military) and is entirely separate from the British military and is made up of mainly CYPRIOT employees, though the most senior ranks are typically recruited from UK police forces. There is simply nothing to 'resolve' here, other than your abject ignorance about the SBA within your OWN country.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Do you deny there are thousands of British soldiers in the Bases? What are they doing? Sleeping in their barracks? Whilst 1.5 Million birds are trapped in a short period of time! Do you realise how many men coming and going that would require? You're suggesting that thousands of British soldiers, hundreds of Military police are all too stupid and oblivious to hundreds and hundreds of Cypriots coming and going over the Bases, collecting 1.5 million birds, but ever-vigilant-concerned-you have left your GC-owned home in the occupied north and have come down to see this and report it to us ... all from the safety of hiding behind 40,000 Turkish troops that you do not raise a stink about removing and who like you were not born here and have only come over since the invasion of 1974.

[erolz66]

Do you deny there are thousands of British soldiers in the Bases? What are they doing? Sleeping in their barracks?

Trying to have a rational discussion with you GiG is an exercise in futility. How about you just fucking GO to the SBA and look for yourself. You clearly have no fucking idea what so ever.

Whilst 1.5 Million birds are trapped in a short period of time! Do you realise how many men coming and going that would require?

Yes I know exactly how many men that would require and just as clearly you do not have the faintest fucking idea yourself but that will not stop your arrogant pronouncements. Talking about things you clearly know fuck all about is something your clearly reign supreme in. A team of 4-6 men working a mist net site in one night time period from midnight to 6am could take 3000 birds or more. That is a SINGLE site in a SINGLE night.

You're suggesting that thousands of British soldiers, hundreds of Military police are all too stupid and oblivious to hundreds and hundreds of Cypriots coming and going over the Bases, collecting 1.5 million birds,

The amount of raids done by either SBA police and game fund or RoC police and game fund is a function of 'public and politcal' pressure. It is nothing to do with stupidity. If they wanted the SBA police or the RoC police working with the game fund could in season go out every night and arrest illegal trappers (the grunts on the ground, not the organising bosses). It is purely a matter of priorities.

but ever-vigilant-concerned-you have left your GC-owned home in the occupied north and have come down to see this and report it to us ... all from the safety of hiding behind 40,000 Turkish troops that you do not raise a stink about removing and who like you were not born here and have only come over since the invasion of 1974.

I do not live in a GC owned home. No GC has EVER lived in the house I currently live in, nor on the land that my house is on. I also live within 1/2 kilometre of the village my father grew up in and generations of my CYPRIOTS forebears came from. Still truth has never mattered to you GiG has it, when bullshit propaganda serves your needs so much better.
I worked WITH and FOR Birdlife Cyprus, doing annual surveys with them for two seasons in the South. I then worked with them in conjunction with the North's equivalent of Birdlife Cyprus (Kuskor) - having to ignore and bypass so much of the kind of political bullshit you yourself spout, on both sides, just to get a similar monitoring programme going in the north as well, because you know what, birds to not give a fuck about north and south. I did this (both paid and unpaid for periods of time) because I actually CARE about Cyprus, all of it. I seek to do what I can for my country. You seek to avoid having to do anything on the basis 'until the fucking turks leave why do anything, after all if my children and grand children never get to see species that are wiped out by our inaction today, we can just blame the bloody turks anyway' - which is a pathetic as it sounds.

This is an ENVIRONMENTAL issue. This is NOT about the politics of Cyprus. The environmental damage done by the kind of ignorant denial and politicking you go in for GiG will affect Cyprus, north and south regardless of what happens politically in the future. We could as CYPRIOTS, north and south, make a real material difference for the better for generations yet to come with nothing more than an attitude change, but you seemingly prefer to keep your head up your ass, spouting your political propaganda. Pathetic.

[repulsewarrior]

It was quite ordinary!

The only good bit was the first part with the monkeys jumping up and down. It was downhill from there!

...you gotta find the two beetles rolling a piece of dung, when one of them has a foot stuck in it.

[repulsewarrior]

...again, well said erolz, it is an environmental issue.

...do we seek to better ourselves, (even as "Greeks"), are there examples where, on this issue, we can say that Cypriots have composed for themselves something to emulate? (nevermind the north, since it is a regime, governing as such), beside the acts of Individuals, where is there a concerted effort to find the facts on which to make rational decisions? in any case, my family, i think is not rare, long before there was our displacement, we stopped hunting for the tiny birds, and education then, as it is today, played a big role in our changing habits.

...where are the best environment for these birds in Cyprus?

[GreekIslandGirl]

A team of 4-6 men working a mist net site in one night time period from midnight to 6am could take 3000 birds or more.

Those are your figures so let's go with them .... how many man-hours to collect 1.5 Million birds? From the above figures, it would take six men, one hour to catch 500 birds or one man one hour to catch 83 birds. In order to collect 1.5 Million birds, it would take six men walking around for 3,000 hours in the Base area ... and not getting spotted? Are you serious?

Six men walking around for 125 days, (day and night ... or 500 days of midnight to 6am stints) in total, on a BRITISH military base filled with surveillance equipment and patrols as well as all the countless civilians/forces-families.

You also said these birds were trapped in firing ranges! Birds do not settle in such noisy places (as I know from the bareness of the Akamas when the Brits did their military exercises there).

- And you're telling me this is a regular ongoing situation and several thousand soldiers and some hundred military police parading round the Bases are not going to spot these people and get rid of them from their highly guarded sites?

Absurd!

It is purely a matter of priorities.

Exactly - because the amount of illegal trapping that still goes on (and has to be stopped, I've never denied that) does not produce any real threat to the birds as it is much much less than it has been over thousands of years without threat. As I've said on countless occasions, the real threats are habitat loss from housing developments and using areas for military practices. I know the difference between the Akamas when the Brits used to use it for military practices and there was not even a lizard to be seen (virtually) compared to the increase in wildlife now that they have stopped. The birds would have less threats if the British cleared off from the Bases and that is my point. And I echo that with the amount of destruction - real destruction - the Turkish Armies are causing in the occupied north - something you remain strangely silent upon ... for a "Cypriot"!

As for ...

I do not live in a GC owned home. No GC has EVER lived in the house I currently live in, nor on the land that my house is on.

Sorry, maybe you've moved since you wrote this:

I do part own under TRNC laws by inhertance a house built on land in North Cyprus that was GC pre 74 (not saying its not still GC owned btw).

"TRNC laws" and you call yourself a Cypriot?

This is an ENVIRONMENTAL issue. This is NOT about the politics of Cyprus.

It is an environmental issue as I have also stated. Large areas of habitat being destroyed! However, it is YOU who is politicizing it by blaming the RoC for not doing enough on the frigging British Bases - which it cannot control properly anyway! The RoC has made trapping illegal. It acts when and if the laws are broken.

You said you had to rejoin CF because my *positive* posts on Cyprus annoy you. Why? Cyprus is NOT any worse than anywhere else and it is far better than most places!