Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

To expect such support on a three year old product of the price it was is just ridiculous.

Why? If it is as easy as the link you gave then it would take just 2 minutes to send him the link. Not doing so is clearly a sign of bad customer service.

Some of you seem to have misunderstood what “customer support” is all about!

It’s just a pretty non-IT girl sitting at a desk wearing a headset whose job it is to give you BASIC information about your purchase, warranties, returns, etc.

It’s not the same as “technical support” and you certainly won’t be getting any for products less than $100!

In fact I doubt any of the home product range is entitled to anything beyond the 1 year warranty.

Side note: Boomers, you bringing up the CyProb all the time in an IT thread is in poor taste!

[erolz66]

...but still we felt obligated as the law would have dictated and as word of the mouth advertising by return business...

If you think your local laws mandate that netgear provide indefinite phone line technical support for a 100 usd product then you should report them to a local consumer protection body. I personally seriously doubt your local lwas require such of netgear.

As sotos said not only not willing to help but they did not even pointed me to the right direction...all they wanted was 6 and 12 month extra support...that was their objective...read my complain letter for them but then again lack of comprehension skills are eluding you to the point you are now reading minds....

They needed to tell you that there was free online product support on their website for you to know this ? You rang asking for phone based technical support. They explained that this was not available for free on a product of your type and age and if you wanted such support it would cost and what the prices were. Sure they could have said or for free you can consult our website - but really did they need to say that for you to know it ? If you expected them at this point to diagnose your issue and give you the specific support page on the website you needed, then once more you were expecting free lifetime technical support to which you were not entitled and netgear had no responsibility to deliver.

so no I did not enter this just to save $120...and get a free router...you must be nuts thinking of this...I am not hard over $120...especially when I am pleading with them for 2 fucking hrs for help...

I never said your motivation was to get a new router and not have to pay for it. I said what you did was criminal and tant amount to stealing a new router and admitting such on a public forum is always stupid. It may not have been your motivation but it was the end result none the less. You had a three year old 'broken' router. You ended up with a new working one at no cost.

....actually the new router upon entering the menu it tells you there is new firmware and if you want to upgrade...I asked this question in my letter for advice and clarification...again they did not suggest anything...in the old router you had to manually check as the software did not connect directly to the netgear servers....

I do not know the exact model and firmware version you are now using but on every such firmware I have seen that has such an auto detect feature also has a check box option to turn off the detection of new firmware on log in as well.

now I am pissed because the new router is connected to the netgear servers...security gone as far as I am concerned...not that they can't get in other ways...but so obvious, we are just not happy with it...

Here you are just being paranoid. In terms of network security having the router automatically check if there is a new firmware at log in is no different from doing it manually either from the routers own web interface or directly from their website on a PC connected to your network.

today we took the decision to trash the netgear products and instead go with D-Link...restoring at least some security....so again erol you are wrong in thinking my motivation was to get a "freebie"....as now we are facing a bigger challenge and greater expense in purchasing new equipment at a cost but atleast feeling more comfortable...

I never said you I thought your motivation was to get a freebie. I said what you did was tant amount to theft and it is. I said posting about committing such an act publically is always stupid.

...you say I broke the law and you might be right on saying this

I am right about this and it seems you are finally if grudgingly accepting this fact.

...there are always 2 sides to every coin and as far as the law is concerned both sides can be right...

Unless it involves disputed property in north Cyprus post 74 presumably , in which case there is only one side of the coin and one right - yours.

re-read my letter to them again and again...time will tell as they have my details...so stealing obviously was not the objective here because a thief generally does not really trails behind as who he is...but to you this was the objective...you are a fool for even going there...

Where do I say I think your objective and motivation was to try and get a new router for no cost ? Again having dragged the status of the property in Cyprus I live in into the discussion and branded me a and my father a thief, you do not seem to use the same standards to us as you state above re leaving trails etc - yet you seem to think theft was and is my motivation ?

In any case we decided to trash the netgear products and look for alternatives as we do not feel comfortable netgear snooping around via a direct connection to our servers...so there you have it...money was not the objective as we do not feel comfortable in this...

Once more that the router can contact netgears servers to see if there is an updated firmware automatically does not compromise YOUR servers any more than they are compromised by your ability to do it manually.

on a side note you yourself is breaking the law by residing on land that does not belong to you....we have judgements on this and I side Mr and Mrs Orams, were evicted from the land that they build a house on...does this mean you are a thief because you stated this in your forum you inherited your house from your dad and indeed belong to a GC, in other words your dad was peddling in stolen goods?...well according to the law you are...no ifs no buts on this one...why are you still hanging on something that does not belong to you?...it can quite rightly applied that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree?...hmm

Firstly and for the umpteenth time, the house I inherited from my father was never a GC house or home, nor did the land it was built on ever hold such a GC house or home. It was built after 74, prior to 74 the land was used for grazing goats. Yes it was built on disputed land and yes my father bought the house knowing this. It does seem that your 'standards' for determining a thief vary depending on if you are applying them to you or to someone else. You claimed you were not a thief because you had no gain. Yet the same can be argued about the house in question. It was bought at a price that reflected the disputed nature of the deeds to the land it was on and its value today also reflects this reality. Nor is it clear that a case like the Orams one would have the same result post the ECHR ruling on the legitimacy of the IPC which happened after the Orams case. It may make no difference but then again it may, yet when there are according to you always two sides to any legal dispute, you seem to be judge jury and executioner in this case, claiming there are no ifs and no buts. For the record I have always argued that if the status of the land that house is on goes from disputed title to non disputed title as part of a general settlement, then the increase in its value that results from this change in status should not accrue to me but should in fact go into a fund to balance against other land claims and settlements. Anyway as GR has pointed out all this is pretty off topic and irrelevant to the thread in question, You may think me a hypocrite but even if I am it does not change what you chose to do and what that represents.

If this thread is really about helping others learn from your experiences then I think there are valid lessons that can be drawn from this saga, but they are not in my opinion about 'standing up to mega corporations' or the validity of resorting to illegal acts. I think the kind of lessons that could be learnt from this saga include the following.

1 - Updating firmware is NOT a trivial thing. It is NOT the same as updating software or drivers. Firmware means somewhere between software and hardware. Updating firmware ALWAYS carries a potential risk of 'bricking' the device concerned. If you think you have a specific need to update firmware do your research first. Check the changelogs for the new firmware - does it address the specific problem you have or not. Check for the experience of others that have tried updating their firmwares - have others had problems and if so is it known why and how to avoid them. Check for what you do if it does go wrong before you try updating the firmware.

2 - Expecting lifetime technical support on a 100usd home product is not reasonable. Try the customer support helpline by all means but if it does not provide the answers you are looking for then your time and effort is probably better spent searching online for answers and asking on forums like these than spending hours and hours trying to argue with the company concerned that they should provide you with lifte time technical support on a 100usd domestic IT product like a router.

[Get Real!]

In any case them willing to help as stated in their email to me, mind you now has being 6 days and no show, is an admission of responsibility as they had no way of knowing my next move...

Boomers, just read your story… the latest post. Your daft assumption above pretty much encapsulates your entire fucked-up mindset!

You once tried to encourage me to get into hardware retail and I’m sure glad I never took your advice or I would’ve had to deal with idiotic customers like you (who expect free on-site service for out-of-warranty shitty home devices) on a daily basis!

Customers suck these days. They spend <100 miserable dollars for some shitty gadget and they think they own the company… they’re spoilt rotten by consumer affairs departments and you're a prime example of that.

Unbelievable stuff!

[Sotos]

To expect such support on a three year old product of the price it was is just ridiculous.

Why? If it is as easy as the link you gave then it would take just 2 minutes to send him the link. Not doing so is clearly a sign of bad customer service.

It is not economically viable to offer such phone line support indefinitely on products of this price range - essentially home products. Whilst it may have taken a matter of 10 - 15 minutes of a 2nd level tech support person to establish what the issue was and what the likely remedy was and provide the link, if they provide such support to one person then they have to provide it to all. Even 15 minutes of such a person time is probably enough to wipe out the whole profit margin on such an item. In any case the chances are from what I have seen from boomerang if they were to have provided him with a link he would not have been satisfied. He would have demanded the tech person stay online whilst he tried the process or demanded a new unit on the false premise that the failure of the old one was netgears fault and responsibility. The fact is they can not offer such time unlimited phone support fairly and equally to all customers as this price point and hope to make any profit. What they can and do offer is online support via documentation which is what they do. You can buy a router of similar specification from say CISCO at 5 - 20 times the price that would have such phone line support and if you business is dependent on internet access and you have little knowledge of the technology yourself then such a higher priced product along with the higher levels of support may well be a good idea. The fact is given the kind of margins on devices like this netgear have already lost money on this sale, just in dealing with boomerangs demands for support he was never entitled too in the first place, let alone the fact that he has also stolen an entirely new router and not paid for it.

There are many companies that offer excellent support and they are still very profitable. Did you think that the customer service of Netgear is made by highly paid engineers? It is not rocket science to offer help on such issues... some basic training, even to people without higher education, is more than enough. So he could at least TRY to help Boomerang, and if after say 20 minutes the problem was not solved THEN to offer to him to send his router to a service center and pay for it to be fixed by a technician. This would be the NORMAL customer service... not even a great one.

[Sotos]

Here is an example of a great customer service: I had a keyboard/mouse combo from Logitech which had a 5 year warranty. During the 4th year the keyboard started having some issues. So I contacted Logitech. The only thing that they required was a proof of purchase and they send to me a brand new keyboard... and since the one I had was an old model that was not made anymore they send a newer, upgraded model that had a price even higher than the one I bought (over $100)! And what is amazing is that they didn't even ask me to send the old keyboard back to them!!! So there was not even a way for them to confirm that my old keyboard broke. Needless to say I continue buying Logitech products and the great experience I had with them is always a factor... sometimes the deciding factor when other things appear more or less equal when choosing what to buy.

[Sotos]

Another example of great Customer Service: Amazon. I order a ton of things from them and here is what happened the few cases that things went wrong:
- An order was late for almost a week. I contact them to ask them about it, they refund me the shipping cost (without me asking), order arrives a few days later.
- Something I bought from them stopped working after 3 months. They send a new one right away , I later send the broken one back and they pay for the shipping.
- They made a mistake and send a different model of an item. I contact them, they send the correct one and tell me to keep the wrong model also.

[Get Real!]

Here is an example of a great customer service: I had a keyboard/mouse combo from Logitech which had a 5 year warranty. During the 4th year the keyboard started having some issues. So I contacted Logitech. The only thing that they required was a proof of purchase and they send to me a brand new keyboard... and since the one I had was an old model that was not made anymore they send a newer, upgraded model that had a price even higher than the one I bought (over $100)! And what is amazing is that they didn't even ask me to send the old keyboard back to them!!! So there was not even a way for them to confirm that my old keyboard broke. Needless to say I continue buying Logitech products and the great experience I had with them is always a factor... sometimes the deciding factor when other things appear more or less equal when choosing what to buy.

The magic words.

That's called honoring the warranty, not "great customer service".

Btw... it doesn't cost Varnavas a cent... it's all paid for by Logitech with whom he's a partner.

[Get Real!]

Another example of great Customer Service: Amazon. I order a ton of things from them and here is what happened the few cases that things went wrong:
- An order was late for almost a week. I contact them to ask them about it, they refund me the shipping cost (without me asking), order arrives a few days later.
- Something I bought from them stopped working after 3 months. They send a new one right away , I later send the broken one back and they pay for the shipping.
- They made a mistake and send a different model of an item. I contact them, they send the correct one and tell me to keep the wrong model also.

None of the stories you describe are even remotely relevant to Boomer's case who clearly has an expired warranty.

Try Amazon or Logitech's "support" with expired warranties and then come back and tell us your story!

[Sotos]

Here is an example of a great customer service: I had a keyboard/mouse combo from Logitech which had a 5 year warranty. During the 4th year the keyboard started having some issues. So I contacted Logitech. The only thing that they required was a proof of purchase and they send to me a brand new keyboard... and since the one I had was an old model that was not made anymore they send a newer, upgraded model that had a price even higher than the one I bought (over $100)! And what is amazing is that they didn't even ask me to send the old keyboard back to them!!! So there was not even a way for them to confirm that my old keyboard broke. Needless to say I continue buying Logitech products and the great experience I had with them is always a factor... sometimes the deciding factor when other things appear more or less equal when choosing what to buy.

The magic words.

That's called honoring the warranty, not "great customer service".

What was great is that they send a new keyboard of higher price and they didn't ask me to send the broken one to them. Many companies offer warranties but then they are trying to make it as difficult as possible for the consumer to make a claim on those warranties or even worst some are trying to find an excuse ... "yeah... there is a 5 year warranty, but if you read the small print what happened in your case is excluded" or "OK, so first fill this form, and then send us the product back to this address (the client pays). Then when we receive your product we will fix it and send it back to you ... it will take about a month" etc.

[Get Real!]

Here is an example of a great customer service: I had a keyboard/mouse combo from Logitech which had a 5 year warranty. During the 4th year the keyboard started having some issues. So I contacted Logitech. The only thing that they required was a proof of purchase and they send to me a brand new keyboard... and since the one I had was an old model that was not made anymore they send a newer, upgraded model that had a price even higher than the one I bought (over $100)! And what is amazing is that they didn't even ask me to send the old keyboard back to them!!! So there was not even a way for them to confirm that my old keyboard broke. Needless to say I continue buying Logitech products and the great experience I had with them is always a factor... sometimes the deciding factor when other things appear more or less equal when choosing what to buy.

The magic words.

That's called honoring the warranty, not "great customer service".

What was great is that they send a new keyboard of higher price and they didn't ask me to send the broken one to them. Many companies offer warranties but then they are trying to make it as difficult as possible for the consumer to make a claim on those warranties or even worst some are trying to find an excuse ... "yeah... there is a 5 year warranty, but if you read the small print what happened in your case is excluded" or "OK, so first fill this form, and then send us the product back to this address (the client pays). Then when we receive your product we will fix it and send it back to you ... it will take about a month" etc.

It doesn't cost Varnavas a cent... it's all paid for by Logitech with whom he's a partner.

And who in the right mind would want a used keyboard back? Yuck!