Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

I think what you are trying to do is superimpose your neo ottoman image of Cypriotism in Cyprus and if the Greeks don't conform with your image or comply with your demands then you (Turkey) is entitled to take her own Turkish state from them.

[erolz66]

When GC act as if they are Cypriots who happened to be of Greek descent there is no need for separate rights for TC. However when GC act as if they are Greeks who happened to live in Cyprus, then TC should have separate rights as people who are not Greek and for whom Cyprus is their homeland. It really is that simple. It is just a fact that if 'outsiders' had not supported the rights of TC in 1960 in this regard, then Cyprus would not exist today as a nation and a state.

Its like saying,

When the Greek act as if they are Byzantines who happen to be of Greek descent there is no need for separate rights for the Ottomans. However when the Byzantines act as if they are Greeks, then the Turks should have separate rights as people who are not Greek and for whom Anatolia should become their homeland. It really is that simple.

This is pathetic. TC either have a right to self determination or they do not. Do you claim they do not ?

If they have a right to self determination then they can exercise such right as part of a Cypriot people. However when a section of this Cypriot people says, actually we are not part of a Cypriot people, we are part of the Greek people and Cyprus must be part of the Greek nation as a result then TC are excluded from exercising their right to self determination as part of a Cypriot people by such actions and thus have every right to exercise such rights as part of some other people, an equal to any other people.

The truth is you had no moral or legal right to IMPOSE enosis on TC in their own homeland against their will and with no regard for their wishes. You believed you did and probably still believe such but in fact you did not and do not. That is why you could not get any political support for ENOSIS. That is why you could not find any legal route to ENOSIS. That is why you resorted to trying to achieve it via illegal violence and terror and coups - and you failed. What mandates the necessity for separate communal rights for TC community in Cyprus under any agreement is this very fact that you believe you had a right to impose ENOSIS on TC against their will and showed you were more than willing to use illegal ethnic based violence to achieve it. Its what mandated the necessity for communal rights for TC in the 60's agreements and what mandates them in any future agreement.

[Maximus]

When GC act as if they are Cypriots who happened to be of Greek descent there is no need for separate rights for TC. However when GC act as if they are Greeks who happened to live in Cyprus, then TC should have separate rights as people who are not Greek and for whom Cyprus is their homeland. It really is that simple. It is just a fact that if 'outsiders' had not supported the rights of TC in 1960 in this regard, then Cyprus would not exist today as a nation and a state.

Its like saying,

When the Greek act as if they are Byzantines who happen to be of Greek descent there is no need for separate rights for the Ottomans. However when the Byzantines act as if they are Greeks, then the Turks should have separate rights as people who are not Greek and for whom Anatolia should become their homeland. It really is that simple.

This is pathetic. TC either have a right to self determination or they do not. Do you claim they do not ?

Yes, I claim they do not have a right to self determination in Cyprus. It really is that simple.

[erolz66]

Yes, I claim they do not have a right to self determination in Cyprus. It really is that simple.

Well here you show your total stupidity and contempt for EVERYONE has such a right. The only question is how and through what means they are able to exercise that right. By the statement above you show your true extremism and show why we needed communal rights and protections then and why we need them today.

[Maximus]

Yes, I claim they do not have a right to self determination in Cyprus. It really is that simple.

Well here you show your total stupidity and contempt for EVERYONE has such a right. The only question is how and through what means they are able to exercise that right. By the statement above you show your true extremism and show why we needed communal rights and protections then and why we need them today.

no not really. minorities do not have any right to self determination by ethnically cleansing land, rearranging the demographics and cultural heritage, with the help off third party countries.

[erolz66]

Yes, I claim they do not have a right to self determination in Cyprus. It really is that simple.

Well here you show your total stupidity and contempt for EVERYONE has such a right. The only question is how and through what means they are able to exercise that right. By the statement above you show your true extremism and show why we needed communal rights and protections then and why we need them today.

no not really. minorities do not have any right to self determination by ethnically cleansing land, rearranging the demographics and cultural heritage, with the help off third party countries.

The events of 74 came after 14 years of you denying our rights and using illegal violence against us to do so. This dose not justify the events of 74 but does explain them. If we are talking of a settlement to solve the issues, then your continued insistence that we have no rights it what actually sustains the non solution.

Once again what made TC more than just a minority within a CYPRIOT nation and people was you choice to declare than such a nation and people did not exist. In a scenario where you did not do that TC would exercise their right to self determination as part of the unitary Cypriot people and as a minority as part of the TC community with Cyprus. However in a scenario where you claim that Cyprus does not exist and unitary Cypriot people does not exist, you preclude the option for TC to exercise their rights to self determination as part of a unitary Cypriot people and nation and thus they get to exercise them as part of some other grouping and as such equal to any all other groupings.

It is clear you do not accept this. You did not accept it then and do not accept it now. It is further clear that you think not accepting this justifies all the illegal ethnic force and terror you community used against ours in the period 63-74. As it is clear that you want to today try and put right everything that you lost in 74 as a result of refusing to accept this whilst still continuing to not accept it. Any you claim WE are an obstacle to a settlement ?

Such discussion with people like you maximalist on for a such as this are pointless . They can achieve nothing positive and may well only make things worse.

[Lordo]

can you believe that there are gcs here who still believe that tcs are a minority. you see they are as thick as shit. even the charluis are the same swine. can you see how we can even have bbf with them. at least they will have no say about the north.

[boulio]

Lordo basic math ,they are I minority.however even politically the would still need a minority in a federal model.I LIVE IN THe US,the state of Delaware and the state of Texas are equal in the senate however are not equal in the House of representitaves.thats why a federation cannot work in cyprus because the parties are separated by ethnicity and note ideology.that's why in barely works in belgium as we'll.the solution I see is a northern autonomous state with the ROC reduced in territory to a more justifiable area of about 25%.the central govt and the autonomous region will pre agree what's left to the autonomous area and what to the ROC.safegurads can be included in a veto for certain instances ie enosis tsakism turkey EU ascension.the acquis in the autonomous state can be suspended for a time period of 5 years.but that's how I see it that can function.EU basicaly formats 80 % of national laws in Brussels any way.quebec would be a model for the north .

[repulsewarrior]

rw the roc needs as much reform as the ss run germany, the real question is where do you start from. the place is riddled with nepotism and greek nationalism. if you think you can reform such an institution you are mistaken. the place needs a good clean up where all those who belong to the establishment is not just removed but brought to task.

as to a unified roc, surely you must understand it is an impossibility. if it was possible it woul dhave been discussed at some point. why wish for something that cannot happen, you are just setting yourself up for an impossibility.

As to the property issue i am afraid it is already solved. let those who wish to return to return. if there is a resident tc in the house let the echr rules apply which we have to do. first of all, there will not be that many people who wish to return and secondly the problem is in the mind of those fanatics on here and all the other forums they seem to be flooding. they seem to think that everybody wishes to return when every year that goes by they get reduced through death. in another 10 years there will be nobody entitled to return according to echr rules. and then of course you boys will turn against the echr too. what asshole charluiswines reside on this earth.

what's right is right Lordo, nepotism thrives thanks to people like you; in the end i have Faith, and i have no fear, i will continue to fight against the Ignorance that says i should give-up, to "them". there is the compromise, something as Cypriots we can in return demonstrate to the rest of Mankind. you and "You" may consider "Turkishness" the all important factor, fixated on the "Greekness" that you oppose, i choose to remember that real enemies exist, and that unless we stand united there is no Freedom, let alone the Liberty you want so desperately. indeed, one flag should fly higher, neither Greek, nor Turkish, or Maronite, Armenian, British, or Latin, only one in Cyprus, the Cypriot Flag. if you can't agree, i ask you, who is the chav?

[Lordo]

Boulio and i thought some gcs had some sense. if you simply count the numbers and decide on minority status you can stick your roc up your arse my friend. and so can the rest of the swine here. a founding nation not only is never a minority under any circumstances, it also has the right to self determine. you can shove that in your pope too.

rw nepotism thrives because asshole vote for other assholes. it has nothing to do with me. but when you mix corruption nepotism and greek fascism i am afraid no amount of reform will help you. anything of decency you build will be knocked down quicker than you can build it. there comes a time when you decide that it is not possible to live with the swine. then you live in your state and let the others live in theirs. it is the only way. one must not have any say in what the other does.