Cyprus-Forum.com

[Cap]

West Bank is another story Jerry.


That's legitimately disputed by the Palestinians.

[Paphitis]

Hardly surprising that Hamas claims the whole of Jerusalem is it?

http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/M ... ership.htm

So in other words, it should be hardly surprising for Turkey to claim "northern" Cyprus.

Jerusalem is the ancestral home of the Jewish People. They had to go some where, and the Levant seemed the most logical place, unless of course yuou do not believe they have a right to a homeland (denied to them by thousands of years of persecution).

Bad comparison, Turkey handed Cyprus to Britain in 1878 and legally gave up its claim when it signed the Treaty of Lausanne. I don't hold with this "ancestral home" crap. People have the right to live where they were born provided heir parents had a legitimate right to be there.

Britain handed made the Balfour Declaration in 1926 and Sovereignty was handed to Israel in 1948.

Seems only logical to me that this State be formed. The Palestinians never had sovereignty over the area and by comparison lack the connection to the area as opposed to the Jews.

Well Jerry, if you don't hold to this Ancestral Home "crap" then Cyprus is in the shit because 180,000 GCs were ethnically cleansed from the "north" just like the Jews were Ethnically Cleansed from the Levant.

At the end of day jerry, Israel is a country, fully recognized so their rights in the area are now without question on a legal basis.

The Balfour declaration that you refer to was 1917, the 1926 one was about British Dominions - but never mind. The Palestinians may never have had sovereignty (neither did the Cypriots) but they surely had the right to live where they and their forebears were born as do the 180,000 Greek Cypriots. The UN does not recognise the territory illegally appropriated by Israel after 1948, in that sense it is not fully recognised but still, and despite UN resolutions, the Israelis continue to steal and exploit land that does not belong to them, why are you surprised that Hamas is resisting them.

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?

The fact is Jerry, Israel is a legal entity much like the RoC which isn't going to go away. Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Another fact, Israel has rather extensive diplomatic ties to the RoC now, even Defence ties. They have delineated their EEZ in accordance of the Law of the Sea which guarantees the RoC's equal share. This is not a brutal country like Turkey, but rather a very peaceful country surrounded by very unfriendly countries hell bent on its destruction because they don't want Israel in the Levant period. Israel's only friendly in the area, is the RoC!

[miltiades]

"Another fact, Israel has rather extensive diplomatic ties to the RoC "

A very important alliance for the benefit of our island, we need Israel just as I think that given the current situation with Turkey, Israel needs friends in this region.

None support the killings of innocent civilians, brought about by Hamas continuation of the war against Israel.

Israel would not have embarked upon this latest war if not threatened by Hamas rockets, abductions etc.

I do not for a second believe that Israel and the people want the continuation of hostilities that inevitably always leads to the killing of civilians.

Hamas must abandon its agenda calling for the destruction of Israel, it will not happen but in the meantime more and more Palestinians will perish.

Israel too must make concessions in order to achieve a long term peace so much in need in this troubled region.

Those in support of Hamas must ask them selves a simple question. Will Hamas support the RoC against their fellow Muslims ?

Clearly the answer must be a big NO.

[miltiades]

Turkey is a staunch supporter of Hamas, Iran too as well as Quatar, the Islamic Brotherhood, Hesbollah and no doubt ISIS.

Would we want our Cyprus to be added to the list of Hamas friends headed by Turkey ?

[Jerry]

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?
Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Live where? If the West bank is going to be returned presumably it will be devoid of Israelis so no one to hate the returning Palestinians. Your argument is confused. Perhaps you can quote a reliable Israeli source that says the West Bank will be returned rather than plucking "facts" out of thin air. Sinai was never considered to be part of the Jewish homeland, it was not extensively settled and the Israelis were dealing with a powerful enemy rather than displaced Palestinians.

I fully understand why Cyprus has allied itself to Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. The ROC has, after 50+ years joined the real world of international politics but has prostituted its principles in so doing. No doubt the Turks will turn the argument on its head and parallel our support for the oppressed Jews with their support of the "oppressed" Turkish Cypriots and their right to a homeland.

[Paphitis]

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?
Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Live where? If the West bank is going to be returned presumably it will be devoid of Israelis so no one to hate the returning Palestinians. Your argument is confused. Perhaps you can quote a reliable Israeli source that says the West Bank will be returned rather than plucking "facts" out of thin air. Sinai was never considered to be part of the Jewish homeland, it was not extensively settled and the Israelis were dealing with a powerful enemy rather than displaced Palestinians.

I fully understand why Cyprus has allied itself to Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. The ROC has, after 50+ years joined the real world of international politics but has prostituted its principles in so doing. No doubt the Turks will turn the argument on its head and parallel our support for the oppressed Jews with their support of the "oppressed" Turkish Cypriots and their right to a homeland.

Don't be fooled from the propaganda Jerry.

Palestinians in the West Bank are not allowed Israeli Citizenship, partly because the Israeli's do not consider the West Bank as their territory and because they will cede it one day in the future IF things pan out.

There are an additional 1.6 million Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel, who do posses Israeli Citizenship and are free to live there without let or hindrance.

My sources Jerry are basically the official line of the Israeli State, and the claims of the US State Department which is pushing very hard for some kind of Middle East Peace Process, which according to them, involves handing over the West Bank to the PLO. Israel, has never refused this officially, but wants certain guarantees and at the same time refuses to negotiate with Hamas which is VERY understandable - the State of Israel can not be seen to negotiate with a Terrorist Organisation which has as its aim the total obliteration of their country. It would be similar to the RoC officially accepting the rogue terrorist "trnc" in the occupied north and negotiating with them (which has happened ).

Israel is willing to negotiate with the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas, but would not be caught dead in the same room with Hamas. They will only send the IDF and IAF to negotiate with Hamas! The IDF and the IAF are the only qualified negotiators Israel has for Hamas if you know what I mean.

[Jerry]

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?
Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Live where? If the West bank is going to be returned presumably it will be devoid of Israelis so no one to hate the returning Palestinians. Your argument is confused. Perhaps you can quote a reliable Israeli source that says the West Bank will be returned rather than plucking "facts" out of thin air. Sinai was never considered to be part of the Jewish homeland, it was not extensively settled and the Israelis were dealing with a powerful enemy rather than displaced Palestinians.

I fully understand why Cyprus has allied itself to Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. The ROC has, after 50+ years joined the real world of international politics but has prostituted its principles in so doing. No doubt the Turks will turn the argument on its head and parallel our support for the oppressed Jews with their support of the "oppressed" Turkish Cypriots and their right to a homeland.

Don't be fooled from the propaganda Jerry.

Palestinians in the West Bank are not allowed Israeli Citizenship, partly because the Israeli's do not consider the West Bank as their territory and because they will cede it one day in the future IF things pan out.

There are an additional 1.6 million Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel, who do posses Israeli Citizenship and are free to live there without let or hindrance.

My sources Jerry are basically the official line of the Israeli State, and the claims of the US State Department which is pushing very hard for some kind of Middle East Peace Process, which according to them, involves handing over the West Bank to the PLO. Israel, has never refused this officially, but wants certain guarantees and at the same time refuses to negotiate with Hamas which is VERY understandable - the State of Israel can not be seen to negotiate with a Terrorist Organisation which has as its aim the total obliteration of their country. It would be similar to the RoC officially accepting the rogue terrorist "trnc" in the occupied north and negotiating with them (which has happened ).

Israel is willing to negotiate with the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas, but would not be caught dead in the same room with Hamas. They will only send the IDF and IAF to negotiate with Hamas! The IDF and the IAF are the only qualified negotiators Israel has for Hamas if you know what I mean.

A source for the official line of the Israeli State please where they say they will hand the WB over and vacate the settlements.

[Paphitis]

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?
Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Live where? If the West bank is going to be returned presumably it will be devoid of Israelis so no one to hate the returning Palestinians. Your argument is confused. Perhaps you can quote a reliable Israeli source that says the West Bank will be returned rather than plucking "facts" out of thin air. Sinai was never considered to be part of the Jewish homeland, it was not extensively settled and the Israelis were dealing with a powerful enemy rather than displaced Palestinians.

I fully understand why Cyprus has allied itself to Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. The ROC has, after 50+ years joined the real world of international politics but has prostituted its principles in so doing. No doubt the Turks will turn the argument on its head and parallel our support for the oppressed Jews with their support of the "oppressed" Turkish Cypriots and their right to a homeland.

Don't be fooled from the propaganda Jerry.

Palestinians in the West Bank are not allowed Israeli Citizenship, partly because the Israeli's do not consider the West Bank as their territory and because they will cede it one day in the future IF things pan out.

There are an additional 1.6 million Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel, who do posses Israeli Citizenship and are free to live there without let or hindrance.

My sources Jerry are basically the official line of the Israeli State, and the claims of the US State Department which is pushing very hard for some kind of Middle East Peace Process, which according to them, involves handing over the West Bank to the PLO. Israel, has never refused this officially, but wants certain guarantees and at the same time refuses to negotiate with Hamas which is VERY understandable - the State of Israel can not be seen to negotiate with a Terrorist Organisation which has as its aim the total obliteration of their country. It would be similar to the RoC officially accepting the rogue terrorist "trnc" in the occupied north and negotiating with them (which has happened ).

Israel is willing to negotiate with the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas, but would not be caught dead in the same room with Hamas. They will only send the IDF and IAF to negotiate with Hamas! The IDF and the IAF are the only qualified negotiators Israel has for Hamas if you know what I mean.

A source for the official line of the Israeli State please where they say they will hand the WB over and vacate the settlements.

The Israeli Interior Minister was asked a couple of weeks ago by a stupid American Journalist "why not negotiate with Hamas"?

The Interior Minister replied as follows - "excuse me. Are you listening to what you're saying"? It is not possible for Israel to negotiate with a Terrorist Entity or an organization that actually preaches the complete and total annihilation of the Jewish People. We can not and will not be seated at such a table with such despicable terrorists! We will never give them this kind of legitimacy or recognition. You tell the US Administration, or the EU, Australia or UK to negotiate with them. Is that even possible? I don't think so" he added.

He also stated that Israel is ready to negotiate with any other entity of reason within Gaza, or the West Bank and he mentioned the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas specifically!

Israel had disbanded 18 settlements on the Sinai Peninsula after it signed a comprehensive settlement with Egypt in 1980. Israel also disbanded 3 settlements in Gaza in 2005 after it's complete withdraw and it disbanded another 4 settlements that same year in the West Bank after an agreement was brokered between Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabbin. Unfortunately, the Israeli President was assassinated, and even Yasser Arafat was murdered (poisoned) by his own people (Hamas).

Right now, Israel is in a state of war. There will be no withdrawal from the West Bank as things stand. When the time is right, the West Bank will be up for grabs BUT handing it over to Hamas is not an option.

How can anyone expect Israel to withdrawal right now? When the Palestinians are ready to negotiate after they get rid of Hamas then things might develop. But you see, that is the reason why Hamas started this war Jerry! Don't blame Israel. Hamas is clinging by the thread, and had to start this war to bolster its support amongst the Palestinians! You give Hamas too much credit, but they have no trouble sacrificing 2000 Palestinians in order to cling on to power.

[Jerry]

Don't be fooled. The Palestinians have the right to live there, but why would they want to if there is so much hatred?
Eventually, they West Bank will be returned much like the Sinai Peninsula was returned to Egypt after a comprehensive peace settlement. All the Israelis want are binding agreements that the State of Israel will be recognized and guarantees on its security. Once they get that, I am sure the Israelis will be eager to build a 10m cement wall.

Live where? If the West bank is going to be returned presumably it will be devoid of Israelis so no one to hate the returning Palestinians. Your argument is confused. Perhaps you can quote a reliable Israeli source that says the West Bank will be returned rather than plucking "facts" out of thin air. Sinai was never considered to be part of the Jewish homeland, it was not extensively settled and the Israelis were dealing with a powerful enemy rather than displaced Palestinians.

I fully understand why Cyprus has allied itself to Israel, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc. The ROC has, after 50+ years joined the real world of international politics but has prostituted its principles in so doing. No doubt the Turks will turn the argument on its head and parallel our support for the oppressed Jews with their support of the "oppressed" Turkish Cypriots and their right to a homeland.

Don't be fooled from the propaganda Jerry.

Palestinians in the West Bank are not allowed Israeli Citizenship, partly because the Israeli's do not consider the West Bank as their territory and because they will cede it one day in the future IF things pan out.

There are an additional 1.6 million Palestinians and Arabs living in Israel, who do posses Israeli Citizenship and are free to live there without let or hindrance.

My sources Jerry are basically the official line of the Israeli State, and the claims of the US State Department which is pushing very hard for some kind of Middle East Peace Process, which according to them, involves handing over the West Bank to the PLO. Israel, has never refused this officially, but wants certain guarantees and at the same time refuses to negotiate with Hamas which is VERY understandable - the State of Israel can not be seen to negotiate with a Terrorist Organisation which has as its aim the total obliteration of their country. It would be similar to the RoC officially accepting the rogue terrorist "trnc" in the occupied north and negotiating with them (which has happened ).

Israel is willing to negotiate with the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas, but would not be caught dead in the same room with Hamas. They will only send the IDF and IAF to negotiate with Hamas! The IDF and the IAF are the only qualified negotiators Israel has for Hamas if you know what I mean.

A source for the official line of the Israeli State please where they say they will hand the WB over and vacate the settlements.

The Israeli Interior Minister was asked a couple of weeks ago by a stupid American Journalist "why not negotiate with Hamas"?

The Interior Minister replied as follows - "excuse me. Are you listening to what you're saying"? It is not possible for Israel to negotiate with a Terrorist Entity or an organization that actually preaches the complete and total annihilation of the Jewish People. We can not and will not be seated at such a table with such despicable terrorists! We will never give them this kind of legitimacy or recognition. You tell the US Administration, or the EU, Australia or UK to negotiate with them. Is that even possible? I don't think so" he added.

He also stated that Israel is ready to negotiate with any other entity of reason within Gaza, or the West Bank and he mentioned the PLO and Mahmoud Abbas specifically!

Israel had disbanded 18 settlements on the Sinai Peninsula after it signed a comprehensive settlement with Egypt in 1980. Israel also disbanded 3 settlements in Gaza in 2005 after it's complete withdraw and it disbanded another 4 settlements that same year in the West Bank after an agreement was brokered between Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabbin. Unfortunately, the Israeli President was assassinated, and even Yasser Arafat was murdered (poisoned) by his own people (Hamas).

Right now, Israel is in a state of war. There will be no withdrawal from the West Bank as things stand. When the time is right, the West Bank will be up for grabs BUT handing it over to Hamas is not an option.

How can anyone expect Israel to withdrawal right now? When the Palestinians are ready to negotiate after they get rid of Hamas then things might develop. But you see, that is the reason why Hamas started this war Jerry! Don't blame Israel. Hamas is clinging by the thread, and had to start this war to bolster its support amongst the Palestinians! You give Hamas too much credit, but they have no trouble sacrificing 2000 Palestinians in order to cling on to power.

Hearsay, where's the source/link that Israel will return and vacate the West Bank. As for blame, the stupid Israelis are playing right into Hamas's hands, the Palestinians blame Israel for the 2000 deaths not Hamas. I have seen no reports that the Gaza refugees are turning against Hamas as a result of the recent conflict - quite the reverse in fact.

[Paphitis]

I saw the interview Jerry with my own eyes and it was exactly as I portrayed.

There was no statement over an Israeli withdraw but what the interior minister said made a lot of sense to me. He literally ran circles around the interviewer in my opinion.

If you want evidence, then the best thing is for you to do some unbiased research about the history of Israel beginning from its establishment in 1948, right up to present day and including the 6 Day War of 1967 where Israel actually took control of the Sinai Peninsula, Golan Heights, West Bank and Gaza and ask yourself who actually started each and every conflict. You see, it was never Israel that actually attacked in order to expand its territory now was it?

Also look at the history and ask yourself this. Why did they hand back the Sinai Peninsular? They had settlements there as well. They disbanded 18 if them but as far as I know there are still some Israelis that still remain andive under Egyptian Control. This area was the jewel for its Strategic Significance.

If the Israelis are the expansionists you like to portray, then they would not have handed back Sinai. In fact, they would have not of signed an agreement with the RoC to share the Natural Gas in the East Med in accordance with the LOS because they are strong enough to not have to. On the other hand, compare them to Turkey! I think we all now who the expansionist really is.

Put it this way. I am sure the Israelis don't want to be adversaries with pretty much the entire Arab World. They are because not to many neighboring countries were even happy about the existence of Israel which is why they started so many wars and got done over by a vastly superior Air Force which blew them to smithereens. And they did that for survival. The Arabs thought that they would push the Jews into the Sea and they got done big time and lost a heap of territory in the process.