Tim Drayton wrote:Sotos wrote:Tim Drayton wrote:Putin is a very dangerous person, in my view. It is a pity that he can get more than 50% of his people to vote for him, albeit by stifling all opposition behind the scenes. Those who stand by and shrug their shoulders or even applaud as Russia under his helm dismembers the sovereign state of Ukraine make the same mistake as those who appeased Germany under Hitler when it annexed Sudetenland from Czechoslovakia.
Putin is not a democrat and you are probably right that he is stifling all opposition behind the scenes. Then again in the USA in practice you just have two parties whose differences are only superficial and which are backed by the same kind of corporations... essentially an oligarchy, not a democracy. Which is why most Americans don't even bother to vote anymore... some thought that Obama would be different but they were disappointed. Crimea & parts of East Ukraine might be similar to Sudetenland... but if you think of it those are parts that are historically inhabited by Russians (Germans in the case of Sudetenland). The Americans have supported far worst things... like what the Jews have done to Palestine, or even worst what the Turks have done to north Cyprus... where the invader has taken territory which was NOT historically inhabited by a majority of their kind. So I am not buying the bullshit that it is OK for the Americans and their satellites to screw other nations but Russia can't even have a say on territories which are inhabited by a majority of Russians. Heck ... even the occupation of Akrotiri and Dhekelia by the British is worst. How the fuck does the UK gets to own parts of Cyprus while Russia can't have a say for what are essentially Russian territories? Putin might be an asshole ... but I think some balance in our world is long overdue!!
My dear Sotos, I am not selling any "bullshit" which says that it is OK for anyone. I do not support any tyrant, I do not believe that any people in the world deserve to live under tyranny (or aspire to do so), I do not support any kind of imperialism or neo-imperialism. In fact, if you condemn Turkey's occupation of part of Cyprus on the grounds that this infringes international law and the sovereignty of a nation recognised under international law, then, logically, you must also condemn Israel's illegal occupation of territory outside its legitimate borders under international law, you must condemn China's occupation of Tibet and, likewise, Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea. If you do not, then you are guilty of hypocrisy. In the case of Ukriane, I thought an amicable solution was staring everybody in the face whereby a "territory for recognition" treaty could be negotiated - Ukraine would cede some territory where most of the people are Russian speakers to Russia and Russia would respect the right of self-determination of the Ukranian people (who are also Orthodox Christians, by the way - if Russia is automatically right in everything because it is Orthodox, as seems to be the way of thinking here, why are the Orthodox Ukranians wrong?) who clearly aspire to move in a liberal direction and ultimately become eligible for EU membership. But 'negotiate' was the word. It was Putin who ended that possibility when using sheer force instead. The issue is still not that cut and dried. A referendum was held in 1991 and the Russian-speaking areas also supported Ukranian independence. A lot of the people in Ukriane who now speak Russian had Ukranian-speaking grandparents and great-grandparents and they speak Russian as a result of Stalinist forced Russification, not because they were originally ethnically Russian people. Your argument about the USA is well understood. One of the ways that Putin has managed to cement his power behind the facade of elections is by stifling press freedom and ensuring that all of the media acts as his propaganda outlet, thus ending all meaningful debate around elections and turning them into a charade. Of course, if you look at a country like the UK with its right-wing tabloids backed up by big money that set a right wing agenda, or look at Germany, where one single newspaper, Bild, serves this function, you have to ask how different things are. I sometimes wonder as to the real reason for the killing of president Kennedy and I am sure it was because he was treading on the toes of the real rulers of the country behind the scenes - remember Roosevelt's enigmatic words "Beware the military-industrial complex" - and this, if true, shows that democracy is ultimately a sham everywhere. This all harks back to back to the debate among left-wingers at the outbreak of World War II as to whether to remain neutral as a liberal brand of capitalism fights it out against an autocratic brand of capitalism, or whether liberal democracy, ultimately a sham that it may be, is worth fighting for against fascism. I believe that the latter is true.
For me it is NOT really about "international law"... who makes these "laws" anyways? Having "international law" on your side is a positive thing but it does not always define what is fair and what is unfair. What you said about "negotiations" proves this. What is RIGHT and what is WRONG are not a matter of negotiations. If you believe that somebody has committed a crime against you, you don't expect justice to be served by "negotiating" with him. To have justice you need to have fair laws, fair judges and something able to enforce the fair judgments. None of those things exist when it comes to international relations. What is most important is the association of powers... not fairness. So when I judge Ukraine, Palestine, Tibet, Kurdistan, Basque Country, Catalonia etc, I do NOT use "international law" and therefore I can come to conclusions that might agree or might not agree with what the "international law" says. I admit that I don't know the history and the facts of foreign countries as I know them about Cyprus... so maybe my judgement will be incorrect in those cases. Ukrainians... like Russians, are basically a collection of various Slavic tribes who initially spoke the same language until some centuries ago when they diverted somewhat. You say that those people were forced to speak Russian ... shouldn't they know their own history better than you?
