Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Hi Marios

The AFAP has been closely monitoring the circumstances surrounding the investigation of Germanwings Flight 4U9525.

The Investigation and the AFAP’s Position

As you are aware, German prosecutors have alleged this accident is attributable to unlawful interference by the First Officer. This deeply disturbing news should be read in context of the AFAP’s long-standing position is that it is inappropriate to draw conclusions before the completion of an investigation into an aviation accident or incident. Please find attached a media release that we distributed earlier this week in which the AFAP called for a measured response in the wake of the Germanwings tragedy.

You don't need a regulation saying "it is inappropriate to draw conclusions before the completion of an investigation into an aviation accident or incident" to sue someone who violated it.You can always do it if and when such conclusions were eventually proven wrong, and been such had in the meantime caused you damage.The rule is there as a guideline not as a restriction.
If it were to be a restriction then in practice you would expect the investigator to be restricted from uttering a single word at a time that the voice recorder and later on the FDR were found and examined...

This however totally ignores and violates the rights of the relatives who are in desperate need to know what caused the death of their loved ones.These people -are entitled at the very minimum- to know what happened the soonest possible so that they seek comfort the soonest possible. I don't think any investigator has the right to conceal crucial information either from the relatives or the media assuming he always
underlines the fact that they are just information they possess and not final conclusions.

[Paphitis]

Hi Marios

The AFAP has been closely monitoring the circumstances surrounding the investigation of Germanwings Flight 4U9525.

The Investigation and the AFAP’s Position

As you are aware, German prosecutors have alleged this accident is attributable to unlawful interference by the First Officer. This deeply disturbing news should be read in context of the AFAP’s long-standing position is that it is inappropriate to draw conclusions before the completion of an investigation into an aviation accident or incident. Please find attached a media release that we distributed earlier this week in which the AFAP called for a measured response in the wake of the Germanwings tragedy.

You don't need a regulation saying "it is inappropriate to draw conclusions before the completion of an investigation into an aviation accident or incident" to sue someone who violated it.You can always do it if and when such conclusions were eventually proven wrong, and been such had in the meantime caused you damage.The rule is there as a guideline not as a restriction.
If it were to be a restriction then in practice you would expect the investigator to be restricted from uttering a single word at a time that the voice recorder and later on the FDR were found and examined...

This however totally ignores and violates the rights of the relatives who are in desperate need to know what caused the death of their loved ones.These people -are entitled at the very minimum- to know what happened the soonest possible so that they seek comfort the soonest possible. I don't think any investigator has the right to conceal crucial information either from the relatives or the media assuming he always
underlines the fact that they are just information they possess and not final conclusions.

The rights of the relatives were violated a long time ago by the investigation process. There was a total disregard for their feelings by the media and there was a complete disregard for ICAO Annex 13.

ICAO is an arm of the United Nations. Signatory States are bound by it. I am not sure what legal options IFALPA have, but at the very least it's affiliates in each jurisdiction will be able to challenge any fly by night legislating by any regulator. ICAO can also breach State regulatory signatories at the very least but am unsure what the consequences might be.

I don't think they will be sueing for damages. But the airlines might.

Lufthansa for instance might have sustained serious commercial damages and might go after the French Authorities.

Other airlines might have a case too, if everyone is removed from the line because they split with their girlfriend or something. That is how low this debate has stooped. It's a pretty big shame that this was turned into a circus.

there might be some legal avenues that could be explored by some crafty Lawyers.

[Pyrpolizer]

I am not sure what legal options IFALPA have, but at the very least it's affiliates in each jurisdiction will be able to challenge any fly by night legislating by any regulator. ICAO can also breach State regulatory signatories at the very least but am unsure what the consequences might be.

To that I fully agree. Pilots are already discriminated Vs say bus drivers by having to go for all those medical checks one more "for mental status"might lead to havoc.

[miltiades]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

[Paphitis]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

You better get your priorities right here because there is quite a lot at stake which could inevitably make airlines a whole lot unsafer.

The mere fact that leaders in the industry are in fact going all out to highlight some inadequacies with fly by night legislating without consultation, and the fact that the investigation process has been undermined, is a very sad day for aviation and your safety.

Sometimes there is a lot more at stake than the 149 victims of this particular crash. A very dangerous precedence may have been set which could rock the principles of Accident Investigation for years to come.

And what you give a toss about is worth as much as a wart on a flies arsehole.

[Paphitis]

I am not sure what legal options IFALPA have, but at the very least it's affiliates in each jurisdiction will be able to challenge any fly by night legislating by any regulator. ICAO can also breach State regulatory signatories at the very least but am unsure what the consequences might be.

To that I fully agree. Pilots are already discriminated Vs say bus drivers by having to go for all those medical checks one more "for mental status"might lead to havoc.

That one is very shaky and I believe there might be a quick back down. Firstly, the mere fact they have made claims that Lubitz was a simple 'mental health' case is just pretty damn dicey at the very least. Advocates for depression sufferers will have a field day with this.

They might consult industry, pilots and medical practitioners who will knock that on its head.

[miltiades]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

You better get your priorities right here because there is quite a lot at stake which could inevitably make airlines a whole lot unsafer.

The mere fact that leaders in the industry are in fact going all out to highlight some inadequacies with fly by night legislating without consultation, and the fact that the investigation process has been undermined, is a very sad day for aviation and your safety.

Sometimes there is a lot more at stake than the 149 victims of this particular crash. A very dangerous precedence may have been set which could rock the principles of Accident Investigation for years to come.

And what you give a toss about is worth as much as a wart on a flies arsehole.

From the outset your main concern was whether the ...correct procedures were or were not followed by the investigators. My main concern was the irrefutable fact that one maniac, a sick bastard with mental issues was allowed to being charge of the lives of 149 passengers, You are not a fucking passenger pilot, you are a cargo pilot so if you ever felt like emulating this sick bustard all you are likely to kill are kangaroos. You give all this ..technical shit that any idiot can easily obtain and present your self as an expert.
How many passengers have you ever been in charge of, NONE, I bet so cut the shit out and tell us you are NOT a fucking passenger pilot but a fucking steward looking after kangaroos

[Paphitis]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

You better get your priorities right here because there is quite a lot at stake which could inevitably make airlines a whole lot unsafer.

The mere fact that leaders in the industry are in fact going all out to highlight some inadequacies with fly by night legislating without consultation, and the fact that the investigation process has been undermined, is a very sad day for aviation and your safety.

Sometimes there is a lot more at stake than the 149 victims of this particular crash. A very dangerous precedence may have been set which could rock the principles of Accident Investigation for years to come.

And what you give a toss about is worth as much as a wart on a flies arsehole.

From the outset your main concern was whether the ...correct procedures were or were not followed by the investigators. My main concern was the irrefutable fact that one maniac, a sick bastard with mental issues was allowed to being charge of the lives of 149 passengers, You are not a fucking passenger pilot, you are a cargo pilot so if you ever felt like emulating this sick bustard all you are likely to kill are kangaroos. You give all this ..technical shit that any idiot can easily obtain and present your self as an expert.
How many passengers have you ever been in charge of, NONE, I bet so cut the shit out and tell us you are NOT a fucking passenger pilot but a fucking steward looking after kangaroos

The procedures are there for a reason, otherwise the whole situation becomes an uncontrollable circus.

These procedures are designed to get all involved in a no blame process, otherwise airlines and pilots might decide to be a little less cooperative if they feel as though Accident Investigation has become a witch hunt or let's blame the airline or pilots type of scenario.

They are also there to avoid a media circus and whipping the public and media into a frenzy. It is completely counterproductice.

http://www.icao.int/safety/ism/ICAO%20A ... Items.aspx

Furthermore, stewards are extremely bright and interesting people. It's friggin hard work being responsible for the care of hundreds of people on long haul. Very well traveled, knowledgeable and colorful bunch who would take one look at you and spit you out as someone not even worth waisting their time with other than chucking you some nuts in the hope you choke on them. Just a shame you prefer LCC, to deny us the opportunity of you choking on a peanut. I would rather be a Steward than sell pots and pans.

Further to this, there is no difference between Cargo Pilots or Passenger Pilots. There are no dedicated Cargo Pilots unless you work for FedEx or similar. STUPID OLD FART!

[miltiades]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

You better get your priorities right here because there is quite a lot at stake which could inevitably make airlines a whole lot unsafer.

The mere fact that leaders in the industry are in fact going all out to highlight some inadequacies with fly by night legislating without consultation, and the fact that the investigation process has been undermined, is a very sad day for aviation and your safety.

Sometimes there is a lot more at stake than the 149 victims of this particular crash. A very dangerous precedence may have been set which could rock the principles of Accident Investigation for years to come.

And what you give a toss about is worth as much as a wart on a flies arsehole.

From the outset your main concern was whether the ...correct procedures were or were not followed by the investigators. My main concern was the irrefutable fact that one maniac, a sick bastard with mental issues was allowed to being charge of the lives of 149 passengers, You are not a fucking passenger pilot, you are a cargo pilot so if you ever felt like emulating this sick bustard all you are likely to kill are kangaroos. You give all this ..technical shit that any idiot can easily obtain and present your self as an expert.
How many passengers have you ever been in charge of, NONE, I bet so cut the shit out and tell us you are NOT a fucking passenger pilot but a fucking steward looking after kangaroos

The procedures are there for a reason, otherwise the whole situation becomes an uncontrollable circus.

These procedures are designed to get all involved in a no blame process, otherwise airlines and pilots might decide to be a little less cooperative if they feel as though Accident Investigation has become a witch hunt or let's blame the airline or pilots type of scenario.

They are also there to avoid a media circus and whipping the public and media into a frenzy. It is completely counterproductice.

http://www.icao.int/safety/ism/ICAO%20A ... Items.aspx

Furthermore, stewards are extremely bright and interesting people. It's friggin hard work being responsible for the care of hundreds of people on long haul. Very well traveled, knowledgeable and colorful bunch who would take one look at you and spit you out as someone not even worth waisting their time with other than chucking you some nuts in the hope you choke on them. Just a shame you prefer LCC, to deny us the opportunity of choking on a peanut. I would rather be a Steward than sell pots and pans.

Further to this, there is no difference in Cargo Pilots or Passenger Pilots. There are no dedicated Cargo Pilots unless you work for FedEx or similar. STUPID OLD FART!

Im not the least interested in knowing the difference between one pilot in charge of an aircraft and another, just as most people are not.
What is of prime concern is that anyone in charge of an aircraft is vetted and pronounced safe to fly an aircraft. Your limited flying experience is evident. No stupid bastard such as you would ever be in charge of the safety of passengers. You are NOT apilot, admit it, you are a fucking air steward serving meals and drinks to passengers. NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, JUST DONT GIVE US THE BULLSHIT THAT YOU ARE A ...PILOT.
Mate, you are just a steward so do me a favour, you are not fooling Miltiades, you are a fucking steward arsehole, stop pretending !

[Paphitis]

From the very start it was ESTABLISHED that one sick pilot committed this hideous acts. Personally I don't give a toss if the investigators did or did not follow correct procedures. The victims are the 149 innocent passengers and their bereaved families. Who cares if the correct, according to Paphitis, procedures were followed or not. One mentally unstable sick bastard decided to end his miserable life and that of 149 passengers. To hell with protocol and the nonsense spouted by Paphitis, passengers have a right to demand that a fucking psycho is not in charge of their lives.
The media reported correctly. Paphitis, you are out of order, nobody gives a shit whether the media or the investigators were premature in their announcements. The fact of the matter is that one sick bastard, hoodwinked the system, a system that has to be vigorously tightened, a system that demands and expects absolute safety. Paphitis seems to be more concerned with splitting hairs than the real issue, in that any sick individual can again commit what this sick fucker did.

You better get your priorities right here because there is quite a lot at stake which could inevitably make airlines a whole lot unsafer.

The mere fact that leaders in the industry are in fact going all out to highlight some inadequacies with fly by night legislating without consultation, and the fact that the investigation process has been undermined, is a very sad day for aviation and your safety.

Sometimes there is a lot more at stake than the 149 victims of this particular crash. A very dangerous precedence may have been set which could rock the principles of Accident Investigation for years to come.

And what you give a toss about is worth as much as a wart on a flies arsehole.

From the outset your main concern was whether the ...correct procedures were or were not followed by the investigators. My main concern was the irrefutable fact that one maniac, a sick bastard with mental issues was allowed to being charge of the lives of 149 passengers, You are not a fucking passenger pilot, you are a cargo pilot so if you ever felt like emulating this sick bustard all you are likely to kill are kangaroos. You give all this ..technical shit that any idiot can easily obtain and present your self as an expert.
How many passengers have you ever been in charge of, NONE, I bet so cut the shit out and tell us you are NOT a fucking passenger pilot but a fucking steward looking after kangaroos

The procedures are there for a reason, otherwise the whole situation becomes an uncontrollable circus.

These procedures are designed to get all involved in a no blame process, otherwise airlines and pilots might decide to be a little less cooperative if they feel as though Accident Investigation has become a witch hunt or let's blame the airline or pilots type of scenario.

They are also there to avoid a media circus and whipping the public and media into a frenzy. It is completely counterproductice.

http://www.icao.int/safety/ism/ICAO%20A ... Items.aspx

Furthermore, stewards are extremely bright and interesting people. It's friggin hard work being responsible for the care of hundreds of people on long haul. Very well traveled, knowledgeable and colorful bunch who would take one look at you and spit you out as someone not even worth waisting their time with other than chucking you some nuts in the hope you choke on them. Just a shame you prefer LCC, to deny us the opportunity of choking on a peanut. I would rather be a Steward than sell pots and pans.

Further to this, there is no difference in Cargo Pilots or Passenger Pilots. There are no dedicated Cargo Pilots unless you work for FedEx or similar. STUPID OLD FART!

Im not the least interested in knowing the difference between one pilot in charge of an aircraft and another, just as most people are not.
What is of prime concern is that anyone in charge of an aircraft is vetted and pronounced safe to fly an aircraft. Your limited flying experience is evident. No stupid bastard such as you would ever be in charge of the safety of passengers. You are NOT apilot, admit it, you are a fucking air steward serving meals and drinks to passengers. NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS, JUST DONT GIVE US THE BULLSHIT THAT YOU ARE A ...PILOT.
Mate, you are just a steward so do me a favour, you are not fooling Miltiades, you are a fucking steward arsehole, stop pretending !

What is of prime concern are the already functioning systems and processes that are already in place so that the right people are pronounced "fit to fly".

Don't just take my word for it. Thousands of pilots have the same concerns, including Captain David Booth (B737 Captain and our elected leader) who has expressed the exact same concerns as what I have been mentioning here on behalf of about 10000 members of which I am one for a small fee of 1% of my wages. They have got me out of the poo on one occasion and as a result, I know exactly how brutal the regulator can be with their "witch hunts" and am also very grateful and indebted to my beloved AFAP.

And let me tell you, we have a lot more pull than you do not just in Australia, but through our European cousins and affiliates in just about every EU country including Greece, UK, Germany, France and Cyprus.

But you have made a habit of going off all half cocked making a huge fool of yourself.