Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

What is that misconstrued garbage? It's not even funny...

Matthew 22:28

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not a-sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

The "house of Israel" refers to the believers and not necessarily Jews.

[erolz66]

You start with an assertion

Genetic engineering just speeds up the same processes available through breeding and selection

You then move to

the general rule of thumb is that genetic engineering is the speedy way to carry out what can be done by breeding and natural selection

and then you claim to know what most molecular biologists think

and most molecular biologist would agree with me, even if you think it's bollocks.

and then you resort to your classic distortion of what an article says to try and defend the earlier nonsense claims you have made

Even the speeded up process of a spiderweb trans-genes inserted into the goats required a certain amount of 'breeding and selection' as even your own article pointed out:

The process of taking an entire gene sequence from one species and implanting it into another does not require ANY breeding and selection. The 'selection' is that that process does not work in every animal subjected to it - thus AFTER you have transfedr the gene sequence you then work out (select) in which animals the gene has 'taken' and in which it has not. To claim the implanting of the gene sequences itself requires breeding and selection is not true and is just a gross distortion of what the article actually says. It like saying that if you have a vaccine that only works on 70% of people it is given too, that therefore the act of vaccination 'requires a certain amount of breeding and section'. It does not just as the act of transferring a gene sequence from one species to another requires NO breeding or selection what so ever.

You're effectively agreeing that breeding for this quality is slow but genetic engineering has speeded it up.

No I am saying that trying to produce a goat whose milk contains spider web proteins in it that can be harvested, purely by means of breeding and selection (of goats) is IMPOSSIBLE. It is a FACT that in the entire length of time that life has evolved naturally on this planet and been subject to breeding and selection by man / woman no such goat has ever exited. That such a goat does to day exist is solely because of direct genetic intervention by man / woman and without that intervention, no such goat would EVER exist. That is the reality - but one that you now have to deny with all your tired old techniques that we have seen over and over, because you can not simply accept that your original assertion was and is in fact bollocks.

[DrCyprus]

What is that misconstrued garbage? It's not even funny...

Matthew 22:28

22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not a-sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it to dogs.

27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table.

28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

The "house of Israel" refers to the believers and not necessarily Jews.

Your perception is the misconstrued garbage.

The woman believed in Jesus, so if she was a believer of Christ she was, according to your interpretation, automatically part of the 'House of Israel'. Therefore, Jesus calling her a dog is unwarranted.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Erolz, as I said, in different ways, whatever can be done by genetic engineering can occur naturally or be carried out via breeding and selection. But genetic engineering is the speedier way to do it. It's the limits of your knowledge that make it hard for you to understand why it's possible, say, for a spider protein gene to find itself in a goat, given enough time.

Here's how this 'radical' idea is first introduced in schools:

Selective breeding is the traditional method for improving crops and livestock, such as increasing disease resistance or milk yield.
Genetic engineering is a faster way, which transplants genes for a desired characteristic into an organism.

BBC

[erolz66]

Erolz, as I said, in different ways, whatever can be done by genetic engineering can occur naturally or be carried out via breeding and selection. But genetic engineering is the speedier way to do it. It's the limits of your knowledge that make it hard for you to understand why it's possible, say, for a spider protein gene to find itself in a goat, given enough time.

Here's how this 'radical' idea is first introduced in schools:

Selective breeding is the traditional method for improving crops and livestock, such as increasing disease resistance or milk yield.
Genetic engineering is a faster way, which transplants genes for a desired characteristic into an organism.

BBC

And you should learn basic logic.

All avenues have tress down the sides of them. False logic = this street has trees down the side of it therefore it must be an avenue. That is what you are doing above. False logic, the kind that most 8 years can understand.

Yes genetic engineering is a faster way of achieving results that can be achieved by section and breeding. False logic = therefore the ONLY thing that genetic engineering can achieve is what can be done with breeding and selection, it just does it faster.

ONE thing you can achieve with genetic engineering is the same as what you could achieve with selection and breeding, like if you want a hairier goat, or a more passive goat. These are all things that can be (and have been) achieved either by selection and breeding or by genetic engineering (which is quicker).

ANOTHER thing that can ONLY be achieved by genetic engineering and is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve by breeding and selection is if you want goats to produce spider silk in their milk.

[GreekIslandGirl]

ANOTHER thing that can ONLY be achieved by genetic engineering and is IMPOSSIBLE to achieve by breeding and selection is if you want goats to produce spider silk in their milk.

To borrow your phrase - BOLLOCKS!

[GreekIslandGirl]

To 'believe' like erolz, is to believe that evolution has stopped.

[erolz66]

To borrow your phrase - BOLLOCKS!

As ever when you have left yourself no were to go with argument and reason, you resort to your standard and frankly, after 11 years of posting here, boring 'techniques', like simply making up things that I have never said as below, or just 'you are wrong' assertions as above, without any reason or argument.

To 'believe' like erolz, is to believe that evolution has stopped.

It is as pathetic as it is consistent.

Seeing as how you earlier claimed to be able to speak for 'most molecular biologist' , how about you find a SINGLE credible biologist who would agree with your claim that given sufficient time you could produce as goat that produces spiders silk in its milk just by selective breeding of goats. Of course you will not be able to find such because it is simply not possible to produce a goat that does this via selective breeding alone.

[GreekIslandGirl]

Erolz, since it is you who disagrees with me, find me a molecular biologist who disagrees with what I've said - and I don't mean someone in the occupied areas.

- I gave you the clue with HGT but it went over your head.

[Lordo]

You start with an assertion

Genetic engineering just speeds up the same processes available through breeding and selection

You then move to

the general rule of thumb is that genetic engineering is the speedy way to carry out what can be done by breeding and natural selection

and then you claim to know what most molecular biologists think

and most molecular biologist would agree with me, even if you think it's bollocks.

and then you resort to your classic distortion of what an article says to try and defend the earlier nonsense claims you have made

Even the speeded up process of a spiderweb trans-genes inserted into the goats required a certain amount of 'breeding and selection' as even your own article pointed out:

The process of taking an entire gene sequence from one species and implanting it into another does not require ANY breeding and selection. The 'selection' is that that process does not work in every animal subjected to it - thus AFTER you have transfedr the gene sequence you then work out (select) in which animals the gene has 'taken' and in which it has not. To claim the implanting of the gene sequences itself requires breeding and selection is not true and is just a gross distortion of what the article actually says. It like saying that if you have a vaccine that only works on 70% of people it is given too, that therefore the act of vaccination 'requires a certain amount of breeding and section'. It does not just as the act of transferring a gene sequence from one species to another requires NO breeding or selection what so ever.

You're effectively agreeing that breeding for this quality is slow but genetic engineering has speeded it up.

No I am saying that trying to produce a goat whose milk contains spider web proteins in it that can be harvested, purely by means of breeding and selection (of goats) is IMPOSSIBLE. It is a FACT that in the entire length of time that life has evolved naturally on this planet and been subject to breeding and selection by man / woman no such goat has ever exited. That such a goat does to day exist is solely because of direct genetic intervention by man / woman and without that intervention, no such goat would EVER exist. That is the reality - but one that you now have to deny with all your tired old techniques that we have seen over and over, because you can not simply accept that your original assertion was and is in fact bollocks.

I second that. its double bollocks.