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Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Who is most likely to post here just to add anti Greek/Cypriot propaganda?


Note: Your vote in this poll is NOT confidential. Your username will be displayed under the option(s) you select

Erolz66
5
71%
 
B25, Paphitis, Schnauzer, Sotos, yialousa1971
Greekislandgirl
2
29%
 
Lordo, MR-from-NG
 
Total votes : 7

Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby Sotos » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:06 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
B25 wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...Schnauzer, what a joke; he votes, lol.


You can count the jokers of the forum one by one by just looking at who voted.
Even Lordo who is supposed to abstain from any forum activity fell in the trap :lol: :lol:


Does that also include the jokers who bothered to post on this thread?? :wink:


There is no (willing or unwilling) trap in the discussion.
However there are 2 in the poll. One concerns the options themselves and the other the fact that it's not anonymous.
Just admit it, you voted without reading the warning in your hastiness to vote against someone, just like lordo did. :mrgreen:


Why should any poll here be anonymous? I think that nonanonymous polls should be the default. With anonymous polls you always wander if somebody is using multiple accounts to vote! And the answer in the poll was so obvious that was actually pointless. On one hand you have GiG who would support basically everything the Greek or Cyprus governments do... no matter who is president of Cyprus or prime minister in Greece! None of the rest of us does this. And on the other hand you have erolz who is not even Greek.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby erolz66 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:24 pm

Sotos wrote:Why should any poll here be anonymous? I think that nonanonymous polls should be the default.


Would be more than happy to do a non anonymous version of my earlier (and only ever I think) poll here. :) I just took the default option without paying much notice to be frank. Generally I am not a fan of anonymity as a default state either, and not just for polls. Where there is a reason for it sure, but not when there is not.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby Sotos » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:29 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Sotos wrote:Why should any poll here be anonymous? I think that nonanonymous polls should be the default.


Would be more than happy to do a non anonymous version of my earlier (and only ever I think) poll here. :) I just took the default option without paying much notice to be frank. Generally I am not a fan of anonymity as a default state either, and not just for polls. Where there is a reason for it sure, but not when there is not.


I think almost all polls are anonymous because it is the default. I had a look and apparently you can also allow multiple choices in a poll or make a poll end after certain amount of days. I don't remember anybody ever using those options!
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:40 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:One has to wonder why if there was no criticism or threat that the Greek press is so vociferous in its response.


Many countries were criticised. Sweden worse than Greece. Have a look at the evaluation report.

But what was under discussion was that Erolz claimed the EU Commission had threatened Greece with sanctions. This they did not do! Check it!
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:45 pm

There was a definite reason why I chose the non-anonymous poll - we've had these in the past and they make more sense as we have no other controls on who votes.

As I said earlier on:

Firstly, my poll has more integrity than yours as we can see who (if anyone) votes!
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby supporttheunderdog » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 pm

I have checked it. Where in the same report the EU have concluded that Greece is in violation and that a country that does not get its act together can be slung out, that is a very clear warning, in diplomatic speak, that Greece is at risk of the sanction of being slung out. The specific defects identified are in improper recording of who the migrants are, supported by biodata.

Like it or not, being in breach Greece is at risk of being evicted from the Schengen regime. She might not be, but the threat is there.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:57 pm

supporttheunderdog wrote:I have checked it. Where in the same report the EU have concluded that Greece is in violation and that a country that does not get its act together can be slung out,


Nope. It did not threaten Greece with this. Read carefully.

The only recommendations made so far are for more Frontex security because Greece has one of the longest external borders. Various internal countries are already out of Schengen with border controls. Greece is not.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby supporttheunderdog » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:05 am

Here is the full press report
Brussels, 27 January 2016

Commission discusses draft Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece

The College of Commissioners has today, in view of the findings and their significance, taken note and discussed a draft Schengen Evaluation Report on Greece. The Schengen evaluation mechanism, established in October 2013, provides for the verification of the application of the Schengen rules through monitoring visits to a given Member State by Commission-led teams with experts from Member States and Frontex. The draft Schengen evaluation report for Greece, drawn up jointly by Member States experts and Commission representatives, will now be sent to the Schengen Evaluation Committee which will give its opinion. The report will then be adopted by the Commission by means of an implementing act.
Migration and Home Affairs Commissioner Dimitris Avramopoulos said: "If we want to maintain our internal area of free movement, we must better manage our external borders. This means that we will only save Schengen by applying Schengen. The Commission continuously monitors the implementation of the Schengen rules in all Schengen Member States. The draft Schengen evaluation report on Greece looks at the management of the external border during an evaluation visit of Member States and Commission experts in Greece in November. The report shows that there are serious deficiencies in the management of the external border in Greece. We know that in the meantime Greece has started undertaking efforts towards rectifying and complying with the Schengen rules. Substantial improvements are needed to ensure the proper reception, registration, relocation or return of migrants in order to bring Schengen functioning back to normal, without internal border controls. This is our ultimate common goal."
The draft report – which is not public – is based on unannounced site visits to the Greek-Turkish land border and to Chios and Samos conducted from 10 to 13 November 2015. The report looks at the presence of police and coast guard personnel on the inspected sites, the efficiency of the identification and registration process, sea border surveillance and cooperation with neighbouring countries. Whilst acknowledging that the Greek authorities are under pressure, the report notably finds that there is no effective identification and registration of irregular migrants and that fingerprints are not being systematically entered into the system and travel documents are not being systematically checked for the authenticity or against crucial security databases, such as SIS, Interpol and national databases. On this basis, the draft report concludes that Greece is seriously neglecting its obligations and that there are serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border controls that must be overcome and dealt with by the Greek authorities.
Schengen Evaluation Mechanism
Schengen evaluations are carried out in Member States based on a multi-annual and an annual evaluation programme. Such visits can be announced or unannounced.
Following each visit, a report is drawn up identifying any shortcomings and making recommendations for remedial action, with a deadline for their implementation. The recommendations are submitted by the Commission to the Council for adoption. As a follow-up, the Member State in question is required to submit an action plan setting out how it intends to remedy the weaknesses identified. Member States can be assisted in fulfilling the recommendations via practical and/or financial measures from the Commission, Frontex or other EU bodies.
The Eighth bi-annual report on the functioning of the Schengen area of 15 December 2015 already announced that, depending on the results of the Schengen evaluations in Greece, specific measures as referred to in Article 19a and 26 of the Schengen Borders Code may be recommended.
Procedures addressing exceptional circumstances
If a Schengen Evaluation Report concludes that the evaluated Member State is "seriously neglecting its obligations under the Schengen rules" and if there are "serious deficiencies in the carrying out of external border control", the Commission can propose recommendations, to be adopted by the Council, for remedial action to address any deficiencies identified during the evaluation. In order to ensure compliance with these recommendations, the Commission may, under Article 19a of the Schengen Borders Code, recommend that the evaluated Member State take certain specific measures, which may include the deployment of European border guard teams or the submission of a strategic plan setting out how the Member State will deploy its own personnel and equipment to address the concerns. The Commission's proposals must be adopted by a Committee of the Member States, acting by qualified majority. The evaluated Member State then has three months to complete the remedial actions.
Where, after three months, serious deficiencies persist and the measures taken have not proved sufficient to ensure the adequate remedy of these deficiencies, the Commission may trigger the application of the procedure provided for in Article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code.
Under Article 26 of the Schengen Borders Code, if the measures under Article 19a have not been effective, the Council may, based on a proposal from Commission, recommend that one or more Member States reintroduce border controls at all or at specific parts of their internal borders as a matter of last resort, to protect the common interest of the Schengen area. The Council recommendation needs to be adopted by qualified majority.
Under Article 26, and in the exceptional circumstances described above, controls can be reintroduced for a period of up to six months. This measure can be prolonged for additional six month periods up to a maximum duration of two years.

I repeat that where a specific country is named as being in breach, and then the possible sanctions are mentioned, that is a warning that they may be applied to that named country.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby GreekIslandGirl » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:12 am

It doesn't apply to Greece! The countries that were worried, and criticized, such as Sweden, have taken themselves out.

It was media hype.

However, the commissioner for migration, Dimitris Avramopoulos, insisted that the option of removing Greece from Schengen was not on the table during a meeting of ministers in the Netherlands.


Greece was happy with the evaluation because they get more Frontex help now.

Here's the ACTUAL Evaluation report - find me where it suggests 'sanctions':

The dramatically increased number of arrivals has put the border control and asylum systems of the countries concerned under extreme pressure. In response to this situation, the Commission introduced the ‘hotspot’ approach, which provides a platform to allow the EU agencies to assist the frontline Member States in registering, screening and debriefing incoming migrants quickly, to help with the asylum procedures and to coordinate the return operations. Italy and Greece are the first two Member States where this approach is being implemented3. The Commission has also sent its own personnel to both Member States to provide practical coordination and support. The Migration Management Support Teams active at the 'hotspots' rely on the Member States' contributions via Frontex' and EASO's calls for experts and equipment in an appropriate manner.
Following the proposals of the Commission the Council in September has agreed on relocation of 160 000 applicants in clear need of international protection from Italy, Greece and possibly other Member States directly affected by the refugee crisis.4 Full implementation of the relocation mechanism, alongside the roll-out of 'hotspots', should alleviate the pressuron these countries. In addition to the ongoing Frontex joint operations — Triton (hosted by Italy) and Poseidon Sea (hosted by Greece), to which the financial allocation has been trippled to enable reinforcing their surveillance and rescue capacity — the EU launched a Common Security and Defence Policy operation in the southern central Mediterranean on 22 June. This operation aims specifically at disrupting the business model of human smuggling and trafficking networks.
Furthermore, Member States faced with a situation of urgent and exceptional pressure may request the assistance of the Rapid Border Intervention Teams (RABITs) provided in the Frontex Regulation. On 3 December, Greece submitted such a formal request to Frontex for the deployment of a Rapid Border Intervention Team operation to provide immediate border guard support at its external border in the Aegean islands. On 10 December Frontex took the necessary decisions to launch this operation and to immediately agree on the operational plan with the Greek Authorities within the same operational area as Poseidon Sea.
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Re: Anti Greek Cypriot Propaganda - Poll

Postby Pyrpolizer » Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:13 am

supporttheunderdog wrote:
GreekIslandGirl wrote:
miltiades wrote:Can you help us make up our minds by giving an example or two, Please.


I'll mention the most recent first.

He hadn't posted for several days. Then, straight after I updated a thread with the news that the Greek fishermen (who rescued some migrants that were set adrift into danger from Turkey) were to be considered for a Nobel Peace Prize for their humanitarian bravery - he posted! His post derailed the thread with some irrelevant, off-topic stuff plus his own comment claiming that the EU Commission was threatening sanctions against Greece. This was a complete lie, but a clever lie as most people would assume it's true given the ramblings from the media. But when challenged he failed to substantiate it with any relevant evidence (because the EU Commission has issued no such threat of sanctions). It was one of his usual crafty lies where he takes some news, in this case noise over Schengen problems, and goes one step too far, exaggerates and distorts, in order to completely demonize.

This fulfillment of his personal anti-Greek propaganda was a particularly gruesome tactic since he was taking away any nice thoughts of possible humanitarian recognition from ordinary folk, something that we would all otherwise applaud.

He couldn't even tolerate a moment of niceness shared by humanity, because it was something good about ordinary Greek folk and he can only tolerate nastiness.

As to whether I post anti Greek / Cypriot propaganda, that's up to you to decide.


Here is a link to the EU official press report.,[url]http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-174_en.htm[\url]

One has to wonder why if there was no criticism or threat that the Greek press is so vociferous in its response.


Maybe because of the nonsense the report contains? such like
" fingerprints are not being systematically entered into the system and travel documents are not being systematically checked for the authenticity or against crucial security databases, such as SIS, Interpol and national databases. On this basis, the draft report concludes ..."


Neeext!
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