Cyprus-Forum.com

[zan]

NO! In a way I think that it has already been achieved in the south through the EU. This is another reason why Turkey CANNOT let go of Cyprus because as soon as the Cyprus problem is over Turkeys EU prospects are over. It also is the same for the TCs, total unification means ENOSIS through Europe. That, to me, is why it is important for TCs to have 50/50 share in government.

I must say that this 'Enosis through EU' is a strange concept.

It would mean that the UK as finally hooked in Ireland again, there is a new anschluss of Austria to Germany and Sweden has finally taken Finland back from the Russians.

PS. I noticed all questions for TCs to answer was about GCs...

I did not mean to be contentious here just stating what is going on in the TC mind when the "Greeks" are making it hard for Turkey to separate the EU with the Cyprus problem. Just an observation and I meant it in the loosest term.

[zan]

zan what is your personal background, i agree with most of what your saying and beleive that 50/50 division of power in a confederacy is the most viable solution for the future maintenance of peace and stability, although any potential solution is not as clear cut as this as other issues also need to be solved eg land rights and right to return etc

Was there anything in particular you wanted to know?

[Kifeas]

Division of Cyprus was part of a grand design by the British and the Americans. They used or encouraged the others to play in this game. Local fanatics were being supported by bigger outside forces.

I am not so sure about the British, but for some circles within the CIA and the US State Department, it definately was an objective to partition Cyprus! Today we have a new release of documents from the British foreign office from year 1975, including a report by British FM Callahan in relation to the 1974 Cyprus events. It is clear from what he says that partition was definately a Henry Kissinger’s objective, besides being a Turkish government’s one.

[serkan]

thanks for your responses so far, but i would like to clear somthing up because my question may have been badly worded or misunderstood. The questions are for all cypriots particularly Greek Cypriots because obviously Eoka and Enosis has most relevance with this community. When i said

the most important question for Turkish cypriots are:

I meant that the questions are the ones that TC's know about the least, they are important because they ask cypriots both Turkish and Greek to access the past (not dwell on it) and in doing so we can then progress to the present and by understanding what Eoka and enosis mean today to both community's.

[serkan]

I was wondering what your background is TC or GC and wanted to know if you could expand on your own political views? they sound quite interesting

[zan]

Sorry I thought you were trying to get an idea of what the TCs were thinking on these issues. Sorry cypezokyli

Serkan

I am a TC, all be it an idiot.

[zan]

Serkan
Here are a few of my earlier posts if there is anything else you would like to ask please do so.


Quote: What I say is that those that support partition and separation of Cypriots are racists. Do you disagree?

Wholeheartedly yes! I believe that separation will be for the better because of the situation, not because I am a racist. I have fought against racists in the past and defended total strangers. I realise that you don’t want me to list the many different races of friends I have but I have to say that my best friend is in fact GC. I have nightmares about how the island will be if reunified. I am sorry but I cannot except that your right to GC property should over ride the need to ensure the safety of all the Cypriots. I do not want to look in the papers and read that GCs are killing TCs and visa versa. I do not want to read day after day how the TCs are not giving back some ones house and that they both have original documents for the same property. It is already happening today with that hotel owner Mr. Kent. None of this reunification lark is going to be as easy as you guys think its going to be. Greed, desperation, nationalism, grudges, resentment, mistrust, disappointment and many other things that you guys are leaving out of the equation will destroy the trust that does exist. A breading ground for more terrorism, which will create more fear. You guys can have all the faith and good intentions in the world but as the old saying goes “the graveyard is full of people with good intentions”.


Nikiforos wrote:
For those of you advocating separation and partition, would you be willing for the TCs to withdraw to 20% of the land?

Let us say for the sake of argument (NOTE WELL: I DO NOT SUPPORT THIS AT THIS TIME.) that a majority of GCs would agree to partition if TCs withdrew to 20% of the island, who would guarantee the ROC (Greek Nation) from future Turkish military agggression? This would have to be spelled out in detail with iron-clad guarantees from multiple nations including Russia.

If this scenario became reality, the ROC should NOT surrender their veto right to future Turkish and TRNC EU membership.


I have no idea what amount of land is needed in order for the TCs to make a go of it. What I do know is that you cannot just throw a figure of 20% at it and hope it is all right. Any deal would have to be made with realities in mind. Agricultural, tourism, growth, housing in fact the entire infrastructure needed for the TCs to survive has to be taken into account for it to work. I never said this would be an easy option, just a safer one. The difference being that the negotiations will be between two governments and not thousands upon thousands of disgruntled people. What is your assurance for Turkey not to attack? A fair deal, which will help the TCs to realise a functioning republic with a little room for improvement. If this figure turns out to be 20% then fantastic but solely in my mind, and I state only in my mind, 30% sounds less like we got a raw deal. That’s just a gut feeling and that too may have to be taken into account. Please realise that there are those that are calling for the entire 100%.

You have to realise that just as the GCs are making a claim to the Island, so are the TCs. We can and probably will now go back into an argument as to which it belongs to unless we realise the realities of the situation. GCs are there and TCs are there. For it to be one or the other by whatever means is unacceptable.

Boomerang wrote

Quote:
Separation will lead to more racism and hatred...If that happens I can see that the borders will be shut for the next 100 years...Compromise will lead to forgiveness and that will lead to coexistence...



Not if the two governments lead by example. Look, you cannot deny that at the moment both governments are keeping their relative peoples “war ready”. It is the government’s words and teachings that are fuelling most of the hate that is around. If when a two republic Island is formed the people at the top can stop vying for position and show that progress can be made then that is all the new generations will see and will want to be part of. Long live the day when the only reason our children will want to leave the island is because it’s too stable. If in the future those same children want to reunify well, that’s their heresy that perhaps they will look back on and thank their forefathers. I mentioned a little while back about the capital being open to both sides, like a melting pot if you like, and said it tongue in cheek, but the more I think about it the more I like the idea. It will be more like a Hong Kong or a London, a centre for business and clubs and restaurants and homes for those that want that sort of busy life, bright lights and people drinking and socialising together. What better therapy could they possibly want. The only thing I would regret is that I am getting too old to be part of that throbbing crowd.

[Piratis]

Are you really not a racist Zan?

If you are not a racist then you have to accept that a Turkish Cypriot can not have more rights than a Greek Cypriot, right?

You claim that if the 2 communities tried to mix together that all hell would brake loose, and therefore ethnic cleansing is the only solution.

You said:

I am sorry but I cannot except that your right to GC property should over ride the need to ensure the safety of all the Cypriots.

If you are not a racist that discriminates between Greek and Turkish Cypriots then I am sure you would also agree with this:

"I am sorry but I cannot except that your right to TC property should over ride the need to ensure the safety of all the Cypriots."

Therefore the solution according to you can also be the ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus since their right for property can not over ride the security of all Cypriots, a security which you claim is impossible without ethnic cleansing.

Would you accept it when the terms are reversed? Or you are indeed a racist?

[Eric dayi]

Are you really not a racist Zan?

If you are not a racist then you have to accept that a Turkish Cypriot can not have more rights than a Greek Cypriot, right?

You claim that if the 2 communities tried to mix together that all hell would brake loose, and therefore ethnic cleansing is the only solution.

You said:

I am sorry but I cannot except that your right to GC property should over ride the need to ensure the safety of all the Cypriots.

If you are not a racist that discriminates between Greek and Turkish Cypriots then I am sure you would also agree with this:

"I am sorry but I cannot except that your right to TC property should over ride the need to ensure the safety of all the Cypriots."

Therefore the solution according to you can also be the ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots from Cyprus since their right for property can not over ride the security of all Cypriots, a security which you claim is impossible without ethnic cleansing.

Would you accept it when the terms are reversed? Or you are indeed a racist?

Serkan, no matter what questions you ask the answers will always be the same from the same people who cry because they lost whilst trying to steal. (See above posting from number 1 crier of this forum: )

In fact the crying is nonstop and so intensive that even some TC's like Birkibrisli have joined the GC's in crying with and for them.

Q 1: No to part one and Yes to part two....but with the kind of brainwashing in South Cyprus I am pretty certain that the problem and crying will carry on past our life times.

Q 2: Yes and Yes.

Q 3: TC's definitly NOT, GC's will be forced to just like in 1963 by those who want it anyway.

Q 4: In a very short time we will see TC's having to defend themselves again agains the GC ENOSIS supportes, I have no doubt in my mind about this.

Now sit back and watch the replies to this posting.

[serkan]

Piratis i do not thimk Zan is a racist, in fact i think she is a realist. how can two groups with such differant aspirations and diffent ideas be united. I think that wheras the TC's are seeking resolution the GC's are seeking reperations. I understand that land ownership and right to return are key factors for greeks in this discussion but we have come to a stand off on the cyprus issue. The north has made concessions wheras the South has not. Resolution depends on factors compromise, trust and understanding - i think that at times both sides have been guilty in regards to the Cyprus question but currently most of the innitative is coming from TC's.