The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Brexit ..... The Movie

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:06 pm

TD:
By the way, I would like to make my position clear. I have always been an enthusiastic supporter of the project to bring Europe together after the disaster of World War II --------------------------------------------I also believe that a cancer has taken root at the heart of the EU and it needs a thorough reform. My position is that we have to be inside to reform it. It is also vital to UK interests that we remain inside the biggest trade bloc in the world that has been able, with its clout, to negotiate excellent trade deals with the whole world and it is crucial for the city, the last remaining prop of our economy, to be able to have full access to the European market to survive, but I really hoped to see the UK as a force that would help to reform the EU and put it back on track (not that I had much hope of that happening under a bunch of ex-Etonian toffs). I had hoped that the remain camp would base its campaign on a platform that acknowledged the EU's very real faults and spelt out a programme to stay in and reform it, but instead they went with threats. This was a big disappointment for me.


Much of what you say makes sense. The UK has been in the EU for over 40 years and has had very little impact on the ever more oppressive march of Federalism. Yes ..... great, if they COULD make a difference but they couldn’t. What the EU has developed into is almost a dictatorship with rotating, self elected dictators. Immigation was just a symptom of a greater malaise.

I believe being outside this dictatorship will allow the UK and other countries that are outside, to reform what the EU started as, a trading block that will give it an ever increasing share of world trade. The EU’s trade growth is the worst in the industrial world. It has a currency the EURO. that has divided Europe and caused untold deprivation and poverty in the southern part of the continent. It was an idea doomed to failure from the start. The Federal State of Europe is an idea that is dying but the dictators refuse to accept the fact.

The Brexit has to be one of the biggest political screw up's in history. The ex-Etonian Toffs were so confident that they would win, they had no plan ‘B’ ....... let’s face reality, the UK does not even have a leader worth calling one! The last one was all mouth and trousers, he was a lackey to a very small number of people .... the Establishment! What goes on behind those closed doors is anybody’s guess, certainly people like us are not what they are concerned with.

Today is the 100th anniversary of the Somme, an example of what happens when the Establishment enforce their views with the barrel of a gun, invariably in the hands of some patriotic young man who is deceived into believing he is fighting for his country. This happens when The Establishments fall out with one another. It lasted some 140 days ....... hundreds of thousands died for a few metres of real estate.

PS - There is talk that if the UK breaks up, England will probably lose its place on the UN Security Council.

I assume you mean one of the five Permanent Members of the Security Council ?

I think that privilege is decided by the capability to annihilate the rest of the World because they are the ones with nuclear weapons.

I have not read anywhere that we are disarming, as well as leaving the EU, in fact today 3(?) F-35’s arrived from their US manufacturers into the UK at a cost of £300m each ...... Oh, ....... and there are another 138 on order. That sounds like money well spent. :roll: We will need them when we join the EU/US/NATO in another ‘defensive’ war ..........that is when we’ve wrapped up the ones we have on the boil at the moment of course. :wink:
Robin Hood
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 4333
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: Limassol

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:01 pm

JP Morgan’s latest forecast for the UK:

Scotland is likely to break away from the United Kingdom by 2019 in the wake of the Brexit vote and finance firms will decamp from London’s City, according to a new scenario released Wednesday by JP Morgan.

“Our base case is that Scotland will vote for independence and institute a new currency at that point,” according to a memo from the investment bank’s European analysts.

...
Uncertainty caused by the referendum will also prompt international companies to move their operations away from Britain.

“Financial services are among the sectors that will be most exposed to this process. Even if the U.K. begins to signal that it will compromise on other priorities in order to secure ‘full’ access to the single market in financial services, there is a clear risk that euro-denominated activities relocate to within the EU simply to ensure continuity of relationships,” the analysis said.


http://www.politico.eu/article/scottish ... m-uk-news/
User avatar
Tim Drayton
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8799
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:32 am
Location: Limassol/Lemesos

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:52 pm

Brexit could cost UK its UN Security Council seat, warns leading Tory

http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-euro ... ding-tory/
User avatar
Tim Drayton
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8799
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:32 am
Location: Limassol/Lemesos

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby miltiades » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:03 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:Boris has just announced that he will not be standing in the Conservative party election for the Premiership.

Im delirious about this. Theresa May now the clear favourite !


That's because Gove has stepped in. He may be the favourite now.

Gove has as much chance of becoming the net PM as I have !!
Just a few days he was telling us that he hasn't got what it takes to be PM and that he would support Boris.
Tim, there is only one contender for me beyond a shadow of a doubt, Theresa !!
User avatar
miltiades
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 19837
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 10:01 pm

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Paul ZKTV » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:19 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:its very simple FREE MOVEMENT = FREE MARKET

it won't take 2 years for such important issues. I won't be surprised if this particular issue that concerns current and new immigrants to or from the UK will be resolved within a few days.
DO YOU MEAN YOURSELF ??' ,as you are now a UK immigrant in cyprus - you cant treat a british OAP or a homeless syrian any different - both are people from outside the EU
and supbejct to proving they have enough income and can pay their own healthcare .


There is a vast difference between a homeless Syrian and a British OAP. It does not take too much intelligence to see the difference.

A homeless immigrant from Syria is unlikely to have an income at all, so that's him off the list before he even qualifies for consideration. Even if you ignore that qualification ..... the chances are, if he is young, as you seem to prefer them, he most likely has a family and those from the Arab world tend to have large families. So now you have a man with no income, no home, no capital but with maybe 3-4 children and a wife. They need housing, an income to support themselves, education for the children who are unlikely to speak the language and of course medical care.

That sounds like one hell of a drain on resources to me! Who is going to pay?

The British OAP has capital and a pension. He is old (65+), he has an OAP wife who shares his capital and has her own pension. They don't need anyone to provide a home as the chances are they will buy one ..... cash. As they don't have children no one needs education. They are self sufficient and all their income will come from abroad via another government. They spend their income into the local economy. They may not speak the language but really they only need that to get a job but they don't intend to work. They may also need some medical care as time goes on but, a reciprocal arrangement between the host government and the home government will take care of that. They may even have sufficient in capital and income that they can provide themselves with healthcare.

They are no burden on the state, contribute far more to the State than they are ever likely to take out of it ..... and won't disturb anyone as they just want to enjoy their declining years by enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of work, in the sun.

Now try being pragmatic ....... if you could take just one immigrant 'family', which one be the most lucrative? To me there is no contest because I would apply selective immigration and take the one that was best for the country. :roll:


A syrian can PAY TAXES and he might be a doctor etc - A Brit OAP can stand in the Q next to the syrian to see if they qualify for a residence visa ,which is up to the internal political wims of the local goverment

Any goverment would its salt will ask you to put your assets in local banks to help the local economics .
I can only speak of SPAIN which has had the EU rules given on this and MEDICAL CARE FOR NON-EEA OAPS people starts at €450 a month
a reciprocal arrangement between the host government and the home government will take care of that
The UK has 730 days to sort get itself out of the EU . THERE ARE 12 LAWS ON BUYING/SELLING SUGER ALONE !!!
there are 574 EU professional trade negotiators who have spend 50 years screwing deals out of other countries - the UK has NONE !!
when do you think they will get round to sorting out people who are in the end britexit collateral and live on a small island .
i live on an island with more people then cyprus - due to cut back the british office is open 3 days a week for a total of six hours
User avatar
Paul ZKTV
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:16 am
Location: Zürich

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Paul ZKTV » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:21 pm

miltiades wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
miltiades wrote:Boris has just announced that he will not be standing in the Conservative party election for the Premiership.

Im delirious about this. Theresa May now the clear favourite !


That's because Gove has stepped in. He may be the favourite now.

Gove has as much chance of becoming the net PM as I have !!
Just a few days he was telling us that he hasn't got what it takes to be PM and that he would support Boris.
Tim, there is only one contender for me beyond a shadow of a doubt, Theresa !!


Michael Gove isn’t much of a traveller. Such is his fear of flying that he felt forced to take pills to get him through the short flight to Nice where he married the Daily Mail columnist Sarah Vine in 2001 :lol:
User avatar
Paul ZKTV
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:16 am
Location: Zürich

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 10:54 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Paul ZKTV wrote:its very simple FREE MOVEMENT = FREE MARKET

it won't take 2 years for such important issues. I won't be surprised if this particular issue that concerns current and new immigrants to or from the UK will be resolved within a few days.
DO YOU MEAN YOURSELF ??' ,as you are now a UK immigrant in cyprus - you cant treat a british OAP or a homeless syrian any different - both are people from outside the EU
and supbejct to proving they have enough income and can pay their own healthcare .


There is a vast difference between a homeless Syrian and a British OAP. It does not take too much intelligence to see the difference.

A homeless immigrant from Syria is unlikely to have an income at all, so that's him off the list before he even qualifies for consideration. Even if you ignore that qualification ..... the chances are, if he is young, as you seem to prefer them, he most likely has a family and those from the Arab world tend to have large families. So now you have a man with no income, no home, no capital but with maybe 3-4 children and a wife. They need housing, an income to support themselves, education for the children who are unlikely to speak the language and of course medical care.

That sounds like one hell of a drain on resources to me! Who is going to pay?

The British OAP has capital and a pension. He is old (65+), he has an OAP wife who shares his capital and has her own pension. They don't need anyone to provide a home as the chances are they will buy one ..... cash. As they don't have children no one needs education. They are self sufficient and all their income will come from abroad via another government. They spend their income into the local economy. They may not speak the language but really they only need that to get a job but they don't intend to work. They may also need some medical care as time goes on but, a reciprocal arrangement between the host government and the home government will take care of that. They may even have sufficient in capital and income that they can provide themselves with healthcare.

They are no burden on the state, contribute far more to the State than they are ever likely to take out of it ..... and won't disturb anyone as they just want to enjoy their declining years by enjoying the fruits of a lifetime of work, in the sun.

Now try being pragmatic ....... if you could take just one immigrant 'family', which one be the most lucrative? To me there is no contest because I would apply selective immigration and take the one that was best for the country. :roll:


I was about to explain this to Paul but I didn't, just to concentrate on the main issue.
NOBODY can close the door to refugees.These people have rights according to the UN charter, not according to some EU law.Once a person fulfills the criteria to be a refugee, EVERY Nation who's door s/he is knocking is obliged to accept him. Same with those seeking political asylum.
The case of the Syrian refugees was a very special one in that their numbers were huge and most of them wanted to settle in Germany. Imo the EU has done a fairly good job in arranging for their spreading them all over Europe.
So let's separate the two issues.
The first issue is whether the UK or any other country can refuse to accept refugees. It cannot.Either it's in the EU or out of it.
The 2nd issue is providing them support. There is no super costly EU directive for that.Other than food and shelter some medical care and education for the children no one is obliged to offer them anything else. The UK was simply too generous without been obliged to be so.
In Cyprus they provide them food and shelter and some minimum cash. By the minute they are offered a job and they refuse to take it the cash is cut off. :wink: Many of them get tired in their "prison like" campuses and return willingly to their countries.Others get normalized and carry on as normal citizens. Did the UK have to abandon the EU to apply such simple measures??? Will it be able to close the door to refugees, let them drown in the sea, shoot them at her shores, or let the starve to death without any reaction from the UN?
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12892
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:47 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:...... Over that time, Eastern Europeans will still have the right to come and work here unhindered ....


No, there is no obligation either from the EU or the UK to continue abiding to the current "deal". At current "deal" the UK is supposed to even take a number of Syrian refugees.I am certain she will refuse to abide to such obligation like she will refuse to accept any further free movement and settlement from ex-eastern or other European citizens. Until an agreement is reached both sides have every right to take measures as they see fit.
It won't take 2 years for such important issues. I won't be surprised if this particular issue that concerns current and new immigrants to or from the UK will be resolved within a few days.

If you notice the EU is already acting as if the UK is no longer a member while the UK postpones invoking article 50 thinking she still has full rights. In reality all she has is questionable obligations but unquestionable deprivation of rights. She will soon wake up and realize that the sooner she invokes article 50 the less her damages will be.


Since when was Syria in Eastern Europe? I hope you are not a geography teacher.


Is this what you understood?
You said that during THAT time of 3 years the Eastern Europeans will have the right to enter the UK with full EU rights meaning the UK would have to comply fully to her EU obligations! I said, if that were true then she would also have to abide by another EU obligation that of accepting the proportional number of Syrian refugees that the EU decided for her.
I claimed that neither of the 2 is true .By the minute the UK would apply for exit she would be free to take temporary unilateral measures to protect her interests.And SHE WILL. The fact that there will be negotiations does not mean that either side cannot take unilateral temporary measures waiting for the outcome of negotiations.
Btw the EU has already taken unilateral measures. It expelled a commissioner, and canceled the scheduled UK presidency for 2017. Coming up next would be the kicking of the British MPs out of the EU parliament. Probably EU funds to British farmers will soon be frozen too...
User avatar
Pyrpolizer
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12892
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:33 pm

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Paul ZKTV » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:13 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
I was about to explain this to Paul but I didn't, just to concentrate on the main issue.
NOBODY can close the door to refugees.These people have rights according to the UN charter, not according to some EU law.Once a person fulfills the criteria to be a refugee, EVERY Nation who's door s/he is knocking is obliged to accept him. Same with those seeking political asylum.
The case of the Syrian refugees was a very special one in that their numbers were huge and most of them wanted to settle in Germany. Imo the EU has done a fairly good job in arranging for their spreading them all over Europe.
So let's separate the two issues.
The first issue is whether the UK or any other country can refuse to accept refugees. It cannot.Either it's in the EU or out of it.
The 2nd issue is providing them support. There is no super costly EU directive for that.Other than food and shelter some medical care and education for the children no one is obliged to offer them anything else. The UK was simply too generous without been obliged to be so.
In Cyprus they provide them food and shelter and some minimum cash. By the minute they are offered a job and they refuse to take it the cash is cut off. :wink: Many of them get tired in their "prison like" campuses and return willingly to their countries.Others get normalized and carry on as normal citizens. Did the UK have to abandon the EU to apply such simple measures??? Will it be able to close the door to refugees, let them drown in the sea, shoot them at her shores, or let the starve to death without any reaction from the UN?
sorry but none of the goings on in the UK have anything to do with refugees ??
User avatar
Paul ZKTV
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:16 am
Location: Zürich

Re: Brexit ..... The Movie

Postby Paul ZKTV » Fri Jul 01, 2016 12:28 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:...... Over that time, Eastern Europeans will still have the right to come and work here unhindered ....


No, there is no obligation either from the EU or the UK to continue abiding to the current "deal". At current "deal" the UK is supposed to even take a number of Syrian refugees.I am certain she will refuse to abide to such obligation like she will refuse to accept any further free movement and settlement from ex-eastern or other European citizens. Until an agreement is reached both sides have every right to take measures as they see fit.
It won't take 2 years for such important issues. I won't be surprised if this particular issue that concerns current and new immigrants to or from the UK will be resolved within a few days.

If you notice the EU is already acting as if the UK is no longer a member while the UK postpones invoking article 50 thinking she still has full rights. In reality all she has is questionable obligations but unquestionable deprivation of rights. She will soon wake up and realize that the sooner she invokes article 50 the less her damages will be.


Since when was Syria in Eastern Europe? I hope you are not a geography teacher.




Is this what you understood?
You said that during THAT time of 3 years the Eastern Europeans will have the right to enter the UK with full EU rights meaning the UK would have to comply fully to her EU obligations! I said, if that were true then she would also have to abide by another EU obligation that of accepting the proportional number of Syrian refugees that the EU decided for her.
I claimed that neither of the 2 is true .By the minute the UK would apply for exit she would be free to take temporary unilateral measures to protect her interests.And SHE WILL. The fact that there will be negotiations does not mean that either side cannot take unilateral temporary measures waiting for the outcome of negotiations.
Btw the EU has already taken unilateral measures. It expelled a commissioner, and canceled the scheduled UK presidency for 2017. Coming up next would be the kicking of the British MPs out of the EU parliament. Probably EU funds to British farmers will soon be frozen too...


i think that the lack of info on the facts is amazing .
1.until the very last day that what is left of the UK leaves the EU - 100% of the rules apply . so its bzness as usual to anyone to come into the UK .as the convertion of vienna says you cant kick em out ,we will have to see .
2,syrians refugees dont com into it but just show how low some people can get ..
3.it didnt expel a commissioner ,he left because he was pro-eu and didnt want to watch all his good work go down the drain - he was in charge of getting lots of EU money service moved to the UK. and david C got the EU to agree that EURO trading can be in a non-euro area - that would have brought billions of pounds to the UK - all now lost
4.No one have cancelled the UK preidency,no one can kick out the UK MEP because they are DIRECTLY ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE OF EUROPE ,same with farmers .

what is amazing is why all you expats are turkeys who have vored for xmas .
when you have 1 for 1 pound euro ,private income at an all time low and no health cover and your in a B+B in hastings ,who will you blame then ??

STOP PRESS The pound to euro exchange rate today: 1.19542 (-1.18%)
The pound to dollar exchange rate today: 1.32406 (-1.6%)
The euro-dollar conversion rate today: 1.1076 (-0.42%)

EUR/USD recovers from daily lows, attempts to regain 1.1100

Forecast sees Scotland Leave UK and Get New Currency - Scottish Pound or Euro?

Scotland is likely to break away from the UK and adopt a new currency, rejecting Pound Sterling, according to a note from JP Morgan.
User avatar
Paul ZKTV
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 393
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:16 am
Location: Zürich

PreviousNext

Return to General Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests