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Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:12 pm

Get Real! wrote:Let’s take the sophisticated robots made by Honda, are they intelligent? :?

Honda has added to its robots motors for movement, sensors for moving about without bumping into things, speech recognition software, image recognition software, software for the structure of the Japanese language so that it may respond “intelligently” to some questions with structured sentences, countless lookup tables for a bunch of other miscellaneous requirements and so forth.

Now which part of all that demonstrates “learning”? NOTHING!

It is actually a very stupid machine that had to be GIVEN everything in order to do very limited things and thus appear “intelligent” to the public.


Are you not confusing 'learning' with 'intelligence' ?

Computers learn from what information they are given and, like the Indian Engineers in my previous post, have a phenominal memory. But they have no intelligence to know what to do with information and will have to be taught. That is the programmers task. But they do not have the intelligence to use that information until they are taught what to do with it.

One side of the computer are the inputs that provides the information to be processed; on the other side are the outputs which perform according to pre-set computer programs to respond in a predetermined way by responding to sensor/human inputs.

They no more have intelligence than they have emotions. As you say what appears to be intelligence is in fact pseudo intelligence, hence the tag 'artificial', i.e. not real. :wink:
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:34 pm

The IBM link you posted demonstrates EXACTLY what I’ve been telling you all along… that you have to create multiple LOOKUP TABLES and tie them to what IBM calls “Decision trees”.

Someone has to feed EVERYTHING into such a system so what’s so intelligent about it?

Where does such a system demonstrate learning and self-expanding its knowledge base?

And going back to the wild claim that… “It taught itself to play chess in 4 hours”:roll:

Really? It taught itself or you had to lay out all the rules for it? Let’s see your source code… :lol:

The world is full of shit and what’s interesting is that the people that get the most excited and supporting of “AI” are the ones who have had no experience with programming at all and are easily impressed.

BTW, people went on and on about AI from the 80s and where has it gone after 30-40 years? NOWHERE! :roll:
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:15 pm

The notion that Man can develop an intelligent electro-mechanical device that can think for itself, learn from its experiences and expand its knowledge base is nothing but an impossible dream. Childish even!

Only God can create such a miracle as has been demonstrated with the human brain and there’s nothing mechanical about it… it’s like jelly and yet does incredible things like storing information.

Where and how does the brain store information? It doesn’t seem to have a fixed or tangible storage space like a USB stick… so how the hell is it done?

I have no idea... but it’s nothing short of miraculous making our electro-mechanical inventions look like a sad joke! :?

Enjoy your lives people but always keep a window open for God, for we are nothing but dust.
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Sotos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:53 pm

Get Real! wrote:Essentially you are creating LOOKUP TABLES of every possible route so as to always select the best possible path for you.


Seems like you didn't even bother to read the article:

A few months after demonstrating its dominance over the game of Go, DeepMind’s AlphaZero AI has trounced the world’s top-ranked chess engine—and it did so without any prior knowledge of the game and after just four hours of self-training.


So no lookup tables, not to mention that calculating every possible move is impossible with a game like Go, whose possible games are more than the atoms of the universe. A brain is nothing more than a machine which is limited by biology and its super slow evolution. The human brain is the most powerful brain among animals, but Artificial Intelligence is evolving at rates which are vastly faster. Not only AI can eventually match human intelligence, but it can easily surpass it. This can happen in the next couple of decades, unless we intentionally stop this from happening (if we let AI get smarter than us then we are probably screwed). Instead of Artificial general intelligence (AI that can learn anything) we should instead be doing AI that is focused on specific tasks only (driving cars, doing translations etc). Artificial general intelligence can be very, very dangerous beyond a point.
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:52 pm

Sotos wrote:Seems like you didn't even bother to read the article:

"A few months after demonstrating its dominance over the game of Go, DeepMind’s AlphaZero AI has trounced the world’s top-ranked chess engine—and it did so without any prior knowledge of the game and after just four hours of self-training."

I don’t believe their claims, sorry. They can claim whatever they want to the media, but I don’t have to buy it. I say post the source code and prove your claims!

The human brain is the most powerful brain among animals, but Artificial Intelligence is evolving at rates which are vastly faster. Not only AI can eventually match human intelligence, but it can easily surpass it. This can happen in the next couple of decades, unless we intentionally stop this from happening (if we let AI get smarter than us then we are probably screwed). Instead of Artificial general intelligence (AI that can learn anything) we should instead be doing AI that is focused on specific tasks only (driving cars, doing translations etc). Artificial general intelligence can be very, very dangerous beyond a point.

You’re an even bigger dreamer than Pyro… this tells me that you have no concept of Man’s limitations.
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:33 pm

Those who put their faith/trust in Man’s “science” are not only betting on the wrong horse but they also demonstrate their ignorance of Man’s severe limitations.

To assume that everything is open to us and that we’re just a few technologies away from this or that impossibility, is utterly foolhardy!

Man needs to establish a realistic concept of what we CAN and CANNOT accomplish on this planet and in our current limited form, and seriously cut back on the dreaming.

For the past 5 odd millenniums we haven’t accomplished very much unless you consider a camera, a phone, a TV set, a laptop, a car and a house with a garage to be miraculous!

Here are a few extremely daft things that expose Man’s complete ignorance of his own limitations…

1. The notion that Man may one day travel to and live on other planets.

2. The notion that we can control the Earth’s atmosphere.

3. The notion that there’s another “dimension” and that we’re just a few technologies away from entering it!

Etc, etc… :roll: :lol:
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:26 pm

Let’s take a look now at Sotos’ claim so that we may better appreciate the foolhardiness of Man, for he left us with a great example where he says…

“Not only AI can eventually match human intelligence, but it can easily surpass it.”

In other words he believes that we can BETTER God’s invention (the human brain) and that we’ll accomplish it with our Earthly materials… I suppose metals, plastics, wood, CRP, and some digital chips soldered to a board.

It seems that the only thing guaranteed for Man is that our stupidity and arrogance will go off in a tangent… quite possibly to another galaxy and that’s the only way I see us traveling through space. :)
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:20 am

Is everyone silent because we’ve started to realize how stupid Man can be?

I hope so because that’s the only way we can get smarter; by first acknowledging how little we know and how limited we are.

Think about it this way…

If we are smart enough to create something superior to our selves then we must simultaneously be dumb enough to extinct our selves.

But that is contradictory…

How can I be both smart enough to create a more intelligent form and dumb enough to eliminate myself, at the same time…?

It’s a conflicting type of intelligence we are imagining here… one that cannot exist.

I doubt even God can create a better version of himself… we are after all told that God is PERFECT so how can you improve on “perfect”?

God shouldn’t be able to because that would only prove that he is IMPERFECT... once he has been superseded!
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Sotos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:30 pm

Get Real! wrote:I don’t believe their claims, sorry. They can claim whatever they want to the media, but I don’t have to buy it. I say post the source code and prove your claims!


:lol: Just like you don't believe the "claims" of Evolution and you believe in Creationism?

In other words he believes that we can BETTER God’s invention (the human brain)


The human brain is no "God's invention" but a product of the slow process of evolution. Your blind faith ... blinds you!

we’ll accomplish it with our Earthly materials… I suppose metals, plastics, wood, CRP, and some digital chips soldered to a board.


Our brain is also made of earthly materials.

we are after all told that God is PERFECT so how can you improve on “perfect”?


You can't improve what is perfect. The problem with your argument is that what you are told is simply not the truth and most educated people, even many religious ones, do not believe in Creationism anymore.

How can I be both smart enough to create a more intelligent form and dumb enough to eliminate myself, at the same time…?


We created Nuclear Bombs didn't we? There could be an "AI race", since the ones who control the best AI will have the greatest power, so not developing AI might not be an option even though we understand the dangers. At some point AI might get out of control, and then we are all screwed. The problem is that not all people are equally smart or nice. Some smart people can develop the technology thinking they can use it for good and for defense, but then somebody dumb and evil (e.g. somebody like Trump) gets control of the technology and uses it in an evil and stupid way.
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Re: Cyprus on top of the world. Breakthrough in AI learning

Postby Get Real! » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:48 pm

Sotos wrote:The human brain is no "God's invention" but a product of the slow process of evolution. Your blind faith ... blinds you!

So if this “slow process of evolution” has created the human brain tell us what created all the other planets, the solar systems, the galaxies, clusters thereof, and the cosmos in general…
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