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Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Paphitis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:28 am

SATAN 2 or any ICBMs in the American or Russian arsenal are vitually obsolete and only have a deterrence factor.

Except in North Korea's case that is. That's the only situation where Nuclear weapons are not obsolete as there is no Mutually Assured Destruction as only North Korea will be wiped off the face. The USA will have no problem in wiping that country off the face of the map and it will be destroyed inside 3 hours from the moment they launch anything towards South Korea or Japan. Russia and China will not come to North Korea's aid.

Russians should be very worried about these latest weapons because they are Submarine busters. These platforms are a submariners worst nightmare. They literally see them in their nightmare dreams as the Grimm Reaper. :wink: The capability is impressive and unmatched.

And they can keep flying for days and days.

The aircraft they are replacing are impressive too. The gear (mostly Israeli and American) on the back of those things has to be seen to be believed. One of the airframes has the highest classification and no one is allowed on it even to this day. Sad to see them being retired one by one. The gear on those things only got upgraded a few years ago and is 4th generation. :cry:
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:28 pm

Paphitis

SATAN 2 or any ICBMs in the American or Russian arsenal are vitually obsolete and only have a deterrence factor.

4-5 SATAN 2's would wipe the US out completely and the US nor any other country has the weapons that can kill them. That is why they are a deterrent. Had Russia, China and poor little rocket man NOT had a deterrent, the US would have been all over them like a rash. So the NK's deterrent has worked ..... crude as it is?

Except in North Korea's case that is. That's the only situation where Nuclear weapons are not obsolete as there is no Mutually Assured Destruction as only North Korea will be wiped off the face. The USA will have no problem in wiping that country off the face of the map and it will be destroyed inside 3 hours from the moment they launch anything towards South Korea or Japan. Russia and China will not come to North Korea's aid.

Rocket man will never fire first. He is not that stupid because he knows the result will be as you describe. But just having them has kept the US and its Allies at bay and that is the reason the US will never make him give them up. The UN needs to recognise North Korea as a nuclear state so that they are inspected and regulated. To attempt to do it by force would be a disaster for everyone in the region ...... and also the US and Australia. They only need to get one through and it would devastate and contaminate a huge area.

I doubt the US will fire first, although I would place less trust in that than I would the NK's, because China and Russia have made it very clear that they would instantly go to NK's aid ...... and that could mean SATAN 2's on US bases in Japan, South Korea and of course your home country. So providing Trump takes no direct action against rocket man the situation will not change.

By far the bigger danger of a nuclear first strike would be from Israel. In spite of the continuous threats against Iran, Syria, Lebanon, no sanctions have ever been applied to Israel because any attempt to do so is vetoed by the US and yet in my book Israel is by far the biggest danger to peace in the ME. Neither Iran or NK has invaded or attacked anyone for decades, in Iran's case 300 years, so I don't think either of them are a threat. But Iran has no nuclear deterrent although maybe the US is astute enough to realise Iran is geographically very close to Russia and Putin is well aware that both He and Iran are on the US hit list. Israel and the US are spoiling for a war in the ME, having lost face in Syria and the US is goading North Korea into one. :roll:

If you read the history of what happened in Korea after the end of WWII, any one reading it would understand Rocket Mans reasons for having a deterrent. I read several articles on the events during that period and learned a lot I was not aware of as I had only ever seen the Korean War as Good vs Evil, with the US being the good guy. But it wasn't like that at all. I think if the same had happened to you in Australia in the past like that that devastated North Korea, you would feel exactly the same as the North Koreans.


These platforms are a submariners worst nightmare. They literally see them in their nightmare dreams as the Grimm Reaper. :wink: The capability is impressive and unmatched.

You don't know it is unmatched, you just assume it is. I cannot think either the Russians or the Chinese have just been knitting or just twiddling their thumbs all these years! As I have said to you before, being over confident in your own abilities, assuming your opponent is inferior has taken many overconfident Generals out. Things have not changed.

And they can keep flying for days and days.

I don't have a clue what 'they' are ...... as you haven't actually told us.

The aircraft they are replacing are impressive too. The gear (mostly Israeli and American) on the back of those things has to be seen to be believed. One of the airframes has the highest classification and no one is allowed on it even to this day. Sad to see them being retired one by one. The gear on those things only got upgraded a few years ago and is 4th generation. :cry:

.I have no comment on that ..... except to say that Russia/China also has quite an array of sophisticated weapons as well. Don't make the mistake of thinking Western Forces are invincible, as IMO that would be a grave error of judgement. :roll:
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Paphitis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:54 pm

If the Russians launch any such missiles against the USA, or any of its allies, then The Russian Federation will also be destroyed. Mutually Assured Destruction is the deterrance and why it will NEVER happen. Don't kid yourself. SATAN 2 is an irrelevance.

If Rocket man fires any missile over Japan and the Americans mistakenly assess it to fall on any City or panic, then they could launch Nuclear Missiles on North Korea's capital. North Korea ceases to exist. It will have a half life of 10,000 years. And it is on the cards make no mistake about it. North Korea has already been warned.

They are unmatched. There is nothing like these platforms anywhere in the world. It's not my assessment or opinion either. The Russians have nothing like it. When it comes to this type of warfare, America is way ahead of the pack.

Most people can find out what they are. I have given plenty of clues. They are in service with the USA and Australia and soon with the UK. They can launch Harpoon from 4 external pylons, Tomahawk Cruise Missiles, and Torpedoes from the internal bomb bays.

But that isn't the most impressive thing. The most impressive stuff is all the electronics and avionics on board which are worth more money that the airframe itself. The entire platform is just a huge sensor platform. If there is a Nuclear Holocaust, they can just keep flying for days hunting and killing Submarines at 200FT above the ocean. It's an Armageddon weapon, fighting other Armageddon weapons like ICBM carrying Nuclear Submarines.

We couldn't defend our country from a large scale invasion without the Americans but we have the capability to kill Russian Submarines. What does this tell you? It tells you that the Australian Military is just an extension of the US Military along with certain other countries like Canada, NZ, and UK (and there are probably more). Each country complements the other. They inter-operate effectively.

The Russians and Chinese have nothing like this in their inventory. It's a friggin airliner and the entire cargo bays underneath are banks of avionics and ECM Warfare devices and I'm talking tonnes of wiring to all kinds of sensors.

It was absolutely amazing. And half the stuff was closely guarded because they wouldn't tell us what they were. And the aircraft can also defend itself from any attack, with several layers of defence and countermeasures.

It was absolutely incredible.
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Paphitis » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:29 pm

the only maritime patrol aircraft the Russians have is this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-38

It's impressive, but I do not believe it is anywhere near the same league. Sorry! :D

the Chinese have these:

http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.c ... l-and.html

Which are not even in the ballpark. They are way behind the Russians. :lol:
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Londonrake » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:55 pm

This was the one that used to have NATO worried (certainly back in the 90s):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-142

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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:11 pm

Is this what you are talking about? It’s a P-8A Poseidon Maritime Surveillance Aircraft based on the latest Boeing 737-800 Commercial air liner!

US Navy Buys 17 Advanced Sub-Killer Planes Armed With Flying Torpedoes

The aircraft are slated to be delivered by the end of 2020.

The United States Navy (USN) has awarded U.S. aircraft maker Boeing a $2.2 billion contract modification for the construction of 17 new P-8A Poseidon Maritime Surveillance Aircraft, according to a U.S. Department of Defense press release.

“The Boeing Co. (…) is being awarded a $2,196,638,752 modification to a previously awarded fixed-price, cost-plus-fixed-fee contract (…) for the manufacture and delivery of 17 Lot 8 full-rate production P-8A aircraft for the Navy,” the statement reads.

The contract includes 11 aircraft for the USN, four for the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF), and two for the Royal Air Force (RAF).

https://thediplomat.com/2017/04/us-navy ... torpedoes/


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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:54 pm

..... and maybe this is what they are designed to deal with? Now ..... from the article, these sound like very difficult toys to intercept:

"According to information from open sources, the main feature of the new Russian submarine will be armed with the 3M22 Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile, which is already undergoing tests.
The specifications of the missile are also kept secret. It is known that the Zircon will be able to reach speeds of Mach 5-10 (5-10 times faster than the speed of sound) and hit a target at a distance of 300-500 kilometers. Currently, the Russian Navy has in service anti-ship missiles with a maximum speed of Mach 2-2.5
."

A Nimitz aircraft carrier could be attacked from 300-500Km !!! ...... and to be honest at that speed I doubt there would be much that could intercept it ......... of course I could well be wrong but I don’t claim to be a weapons expert!

What is Known About Russia's 5th Gen Husky-Class Stealth Subs

The first Husky-class submarine is planned to be completed by 2030. The fifth-generation sub will join Russia's fleet of nuclear-powered submarines, many of which are currently being modernized, including with advanced cruise missiles.

As Russia continues to build its new Yasen-class nuclear submarines and keeps modernizing the Soviet-era Shchuka-class submarines, the Russia Navy has set its sights on a fifth-generation multipurpose sub, which is already in development.

The project is known under the name "Husky" and is planned to replace the Shchuka- and Yasen-class submarines.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201712201060172180-russia-husky-submarines-missiles/


I still think you exude arrogance and over confidence in the capability of your military and are far too quick to ridicule and talk down that of your possible opponent.

Or maybe this 4th Generation - Borei-A-class submarines, capable of carrying up to 16 Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles each, are an upgraded version of previous Borei-class vessels.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/201711181059220240-russia-missile-sub-launch/


Of course the source is Russian (Sputnik) but CNN, the NYT or WaP wouldn’t print this as it is just Russian propaganda, so maybe they are right, it is all propaganda to strike fear into Russia’s enemies .................. or maybe it’s not! :roll: :?
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Paphitis » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:49 am

Londonrake wrote:This was the one that used to have NATO worried (certainly back in the 90s):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-142

.

Yeh they were nice.

A bit like their Submarines. The Russians are not quite what they use to be as they only have one Typhoon Class left. They have others, but none like the Typhoon.
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Paphitis » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:53 am

Robin Hood wrote:..... and maybe this is what they are designed to deal with? Now ..... from the article, these sound like very difficult toys to intercept:

"According to information from open sources, the main feature of the new Russian submarine will be armed with the 3M22 Zircon hypersonic anti-ship missile, which is already undergoing tests.
The specifications of the missile are also kept secret. It is known that the Zircon will be able to reach speeds of Mach 5-10 (5-10 times faster than the speed of sound) and hit a target at a distance of 300-500 kilometers. Currently, the Russian Navy has in service anti-ship missiles with a maximum speed of Mach 2-2.5
."

A Nimitz aircraft carrier could be attacked from 300-500Km !!! ...... and to be honest at that speed I doubt there would be much that could intercept it ......... of course I could well be wrong but I don’t claim to be a weapons expert!

What is Known About Russia's 5th Gen Husky-Class Stealth Subs

The first Husky-class submarine is planned to be completed by 2030. The fifth-generation sub will join Russia's fleet of nuclear-powered submarines, many of which are currently being modernized, including with advanced cruise missiles.

As Russia continues to build its new Yasen-class nuclear submarines and keeps modernizing the Soviet-era Shchuka-class submarines, the Russia Navy has set its sights on a fifth-generation multipurpose sub, which is already in development.

The project is known under the name "Husky" and is planned to replace the Shchuka- and Yasen-class submarines.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201712201060172180-russia-husky-submarines-missiles/


I still think you exude arrogance and over confidence in the capability of your military and are far too quick to ridicule and talk down that of your possible opponent.

Or maybe this 4th Generation - Borei-A-class submarines, capable of carrying up to 16 Bulava intercontinental ballistic missiles each, are an upgraded version of previous Borei-class vessels.

https://sputniknews.com/russia/201711181059220240-russia-missile-sub-launch/


Of course the source is Russian (Sputnik) but CNN, the NYT or WaP wouldn’t print this as it is just Russian propaganda, so maybe they are right, it is all propaganda to strike fear into Russia’s enemies .................. or maybe it’s not! :roll: :?


It's just a Submarine. the fact that it can carry 16 ICBMs is not something you can say is over and beyond.

the Russians use to have Typhoon Class Submarines, and now there is only 1 working. That is the Submarine that had NATO worried.

The USA has Submarines which carry 24 ICBMs, They are also smaller, more automated, have less crew and are much quieter than Russian technology making them a lot better and more potent.

Also, Western Anti Submarine Warfare is a lot more sophisticated on our side with the P8. Their submarines are also a lot more noisier than our latest Submarines making things much easier. They for instance are still using screws whereas the French and Aussies are moving towards RAM propulsion.

The Russians do not have anything other than outdates 90s technology whereas the Americans and French are into their 6th generation - 2020 and 2030 boats which are starting to be built.
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Re: Russian Aircraft used by Australian and US Government

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:26 am

Paphitis:

It's just a Submarine. the fact that it can carry 16 ICBMs is not something you can say is over and beyond.

the Russians use to have Typhoon Class Submarines, and now there is only 1 working. That is the Submarine that had NATO worried.

The USA has Submarines which carry 24 ICBMs, They are also smaller, more automated, have less crew and are much quieter than Russian technology making them a lot better and more potent.

Also, Western Anti Submarine Warfare is a lot more sophisticated on our side with the P8. Their submarines are also a lot more noisier than our latest Submarines making things much easier. They for instance are still using screws whereas the French and Aussies are moving towards RAM propulsion.

The Russians do not have anything other than outdates 90s technology whereas the Americans and French are into their 6th generation - 2020 and 2030 boats which are starting to be built.


I have to admire your unquestioning confidence in 'your' military equipment and recognise that once again, you attempt to down play the Russians achievements on a 'defence' budget of just a fraction the US spends. Let us hope you won't ever have to find out the hard way ..... that you were wrong! :roll:
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