Cyprus-Forum.com

[Robin Hood]

What I would question is the what he says about the doctors in the hospital. They DID issue a statement within days and said they had received NO PATIENTS with anything other than poisoning. Just three people were affected. Two were serious and were admitted and received treatment, the third (The Skripals MI6 minder) was admitted but left within a couple of days.

I stand corrected. Could you please refresh my memory: How many hours/days after the Skripals were admitted, the UK government announced they were attacked with a nerve agent?
And whose diagnosis was that?

The incident occurred on the 4th March and May identified Novichoc and Russia as the perpetrator, on the 12th March. The OPCW arrived on the 19th March to the UK to collect samples.

The doctors letter in response to a Times report.........

The London Times reported on March 14th that 40 people in Salisbury needed treatment because of poisoning. A reader's letter to the paper written by "Steven Davies - Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust" disputes that report. (The NHS database lists Davies, GMC membership number 4122151, as specialist in accident and emergency services at the Salisbury District Hospital.) The letter seems to say that none of the hospital's patients were effected by "nerve agents" at all:

"Sir, Further to your report "Poison exposure leaves almost 40 needing treatment", Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

The wording of the letter is not 100% clear. Does the "no patients" refer to only the 40 the Times mentioned or to all patents including the Skripals? Are the three patients with "significant poisoning" the Skripals and the affected policeman?

Commentator Noirette had suggested here that the Skripal case was about food poisoning or a food allergy, not nerve agents. The Skripals had visited a fish restaurant one hour before they were found. The letter points into a similar direction. Food poisoning would also explain why a doctor who gave emergency help to the unconscious Yulia Skripal for over 30 minutes was not effected at all.

I have yet to see a follow up on the letter by any media. Why is there no interview with the doctor? All medical personal involved are astonishingly silent. Since day one there has been no medical update on the health status of the Skripals. Has the government issued a gag order in from of a DA-Notice which prohibits reporting? Why?

By writing the above letter Steven Davies, the Salisbury emergency consultant, probably circumvented it. (Several British media ignored a 2017 DA-notice prohibiting the reporting of Christopher Steele's name.)

Source Moon of Alabama ............19/03/2018

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/03/no-patients-have-experienced-symptoms-of-nerve-agent-poisoning-in-salisbury.html

[Pyrpolizer]

What I would question is the what he says about the doctors in the hospital. They DID issue a statement within days and said they had received NO PATIENTS with anything other than poisoning. Just three people were affected. Two were serious and were admitted and received treatment, the third (The Skripals MI6 minder) was admitted but left within a couple of days.

I stand corrected. Could you please refresh my memory: How many hours/days after the Skripals were admitted, the UK government announced they were attacked with a nerve agent?
And whose diagnosis was that?

Ok found it.
Initially it was an "unknown substance"
3 days later it became a "nerve Agent" as published in Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... akes-place

A few days later it became a "nerve agent of the type.."
And 8 days after the incident Teressa May was calling Russia to prove it's innocence !!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... heresa-may

[Paphitis]

I today spoke with my cousin who is a Doctor.
He said there's no hospital in the whole world that could ever diagnose a nerve agent poisoning case within 24 hours.
Even poisoning from known common causes like inhaling exhaust gases, carbon monoxide,LPG etc, drug over dose, food poisoning, poisoning aiming at suicide with chemicals etc is not an easy process and may take days to verify the exact cause while In most cases this is done after the victim dies during the necropsy...
He said in most cases they have to do guess work starting from the most likely causes.If the cause was lethal then there's only 1% chance the doctors would ever save the patients on the first place.

It seems the Doctors at the hospital where the Skipals were carried were some sort of rocket scientists compared to the Doctors we have in Cyprus though.

Isn't it surprising that not even ONE DOCTOR came out in the MSM, to describe the standard medical procedure they follow when two persons are brought unconscious to an emergency unit presumably for the same cause??

Don't even compare the Doctors in the UK with the Doctors in Cyprus.

Firstly, any Doctor worth their pinch of salt isn't going to return to Cyprus when they can go to the USA, Australia, or stay in the UK and earn many times more than what they would in Cyprus.

Cyprus gets the scraps. Occasionally, there will be the odd good Doctor that just want's the Cyprus Lifestyle but 9 out of 10 are going to go for the dollars.

Just compare the hospitals in Cyprus to the UK. The UK spends so much more on the health system.

It looks you have no idea how much money Doctors in the private sector make in Cyprus.
Considering not even one became a specialist in Cyprus it's obvious they all abandoned the countries they got their skills from.


Nevertheless do you have anything soldid from medical sources as to how it would ever be possible to identify the cause of such an extremely rare case of poisoning within 24 hours?

Really? There are hundreds of Cypriot Doctors still working in the UK, or USA and even Australia and they have become specialists on about 1 million per annum. That is what they earn.

Only a few abandon the countries they get their skills from but the majority don't because going back to Cyprus as a Doctor is a huge mistake.

These countries retain them by throwing obscene amounts of money at them and promise work visas and Green Cards, and Cyprus gets the brain drain.

But that is beside the point. I am just amazed that a supposedly intelligent person in Cyprus who is a qualified Doctor is able to make such statements about a Nerve Agent without even knowing a thing about it.

The West has been studying these agents for about 75 years, since after WW2 starting off with the Humble Mustard Gas that was developed by NAZI Scientists and progressing from there to all kinds of substances in the Chemical and even Biological Warfare fields. Do you honestly believe we do not have the capability of making our own stockpiles?

We have developed and even issued our Soldiers with auto-injectors and pens of various chemicals which theoretically are suppose to be antidotes to various Nerve Agents such as Sarin and others and quite possibly this Russian Chemical as well these days which is known to us to the point where the USA can actually make it too.

The West has been looking at these capabilities for a very long time. Also looking at ways its soldiers and people are able to survive a Chemical and/or Biological War environment.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Really? There are hundreds of Cypriot Doctors still working in the UK, or USA and even Australia and they have become specialists on about 1 million per annum. That is what they earn.

Only a few abandon the countries they get their skills from but the majority don't because going back to Cyprus as a Doctor is a huge mistake.

These countries retain them by throwing obscene amounts of money at them and promise work visas and Green Cards, and Cyprus gets the brain drain.

Just shows you that before making sweeping statements you should check the facts. I know of four surgeons here, an ophthalmologist, two neurosurgeons and a dental surgeon, who are all top notch, all trained abroad and were senior level consultants or ran their own practices in the US/EU before moving back to Cyprus and now all have practices in Limassol or Nicosia.

One aspect you overlooked is that they return, not for money as they have made plenty of that whilst working abroad but because of family connections.

But that is beside the point. I am just amazed that a supposedly intelligent person in Cyprus who is a qualified Doctor is able to make such statements about a Nerve Agent without even knowing a thing about it.

Why should you be surprised? You consistently make statements ‘..... without knowing a thing about it’ ...... like now! Where does your expertise in toxicology come from? He expressed an opinion on a medical subject, therefore his opinion would carry some weight.

The West has been studying these agents for about 75 years, since after WW2 starting off with the Humble Mustard Gas that was developed by NAZI Scientists and progressing from there to all kinds of substances in the Chemical and even Biological Warfare fields. Do you honestly believe we do not have the capability of making our own stockpiles?

I believe that absolutely ..... and that is how Teresa May and MI6 were able to reach their conclusion in such a short time. They were highly likely to have been the source of the ‘high quality’ Novichoc agent found in the samples examined by the OPCW.

We have developed and even issued our Soldiers with auto-injectors and pens of various chemicals which theoretically are suppose to be antidotes to various Nerve Agents such as Sarin and others and quite possibly this Russian Chemical as well these days which is known to us to the point where the USA can actually make it too.

Again I agree with you! The US has the World’s largest stockpile of chemical weapons, amounting to some 125,000 tons. they have never implemented a programme to destroy them, and they have an extensive biological weapons programme. The UK also has a large stockpile of chemical weapons and Porton Down does an enormous amount of work on nerve agents for the US Government. They also have the audacity to chastise other nations, that have actually had the total destruction of their chemical weapons witnessed by the OPCW and CWC, of hiding them for illegal use. Bit ironic don’t you think?

The West has been looking at these capabilities for a very long time. Also looking at ways its soldiers and people are able to survive a Chemical and/or Biological War environment.

So where do you think this Novichoc came from, assuming it was a Novichoc agent, from experts like they have in the US and the UK or from some seedy back street laboratory in Siberia? When you look at the information that has trickled out because the UK continually moved the goal posts ......... I think I know who I would place my bet on!

[Robin Hood]

Pyrpolizer:

Ok found it.
Initially it was an "unknown substance"
3 days later it became a "nerve Agent" as published in Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... akes-place

Did you read the article? It was just 4 days after the incident and they have made a lot of assumptions and predictions but were basically following the official line.

A few days later it became a "nerve agent of the type.."
And 8 days after the incident Teressa May was calling Russia to prove it's innocence !!
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... heresa-may

She was well informed considering, as you have pointed out, even a fully competent lab will take weeks to come to a conclusion as to a specific toxin. May could only have been that positive if the stuff was made at Porton Down ...... or she was lying! The the requirement for Russia to admit to the UK’s accusation and prove they didn’t do it is a joke!

[Paphitis]

Yeh well I friggin don't care what you deem as top notch. One day some reality may dawn on you, because top notch for Cyprus and Top Notch for the UK, or Australia or USA are 2 different things.

The real doctors, let me tell you, you know the kind that actually work on breath-through research as opposed just give old farts like you their dentures or eye correction prescription, are in places earning huge bucks, not wasting away in Cyprus.

Sure, Cyprus has some good doctors, but are they at the same level as other countries? No they are not, because the other countries splash huge money.

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been effected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.

And no, the US does not have stockpiles to wage a chemical or biological war. It has been destroying its stockpiles since 1990 as it is a signatory to The Chemical Weapons Convention. But of course it still has small amounts of these substances as does Australia and also the UK for research and to develop antidotes and other treatments for various materials.

[Pyrpolizer]

Yeh well I friggin don't care what you deem as top notch. One day some reality may dawn on you, because top notch for Cyprus and Top Notch for the UK, or Australia or USA are 2 different things.

The real doctors, let me tell you, you know the kind that actually work on breath-through research as opposed just give old farts like you their dentures or eye correction prescription, are in places earning huge bucks, not wasting away in Cyprus.

Sure, Cyprus has some good doctors, but are they at the same level as other countries? No they are not, because the other countries splash huge money.

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been effected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.


Are you trying to tell us that every Doctor at a random hospital in the "West" is an expert on nerve agents and can make an accurate diagnosis?

And no, the US does not have stockpiles to wage a chemical or biological war. It has been destroying its stockpiles since 1990 as it is a signatory to The Chemical Weapons Convention. But of course it still has small amounts of these substances as does Australia and also the UK for research and to develop antidotes and other treatments for various materials.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been affected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.

No my friend you miss the point! MEDICAL doctors do NOT deal with nerve-agents they call in specialists! They deal with toxins many of which are well known and can be readily treated some less well known and are difficult to diagnose and/or treat. It is SCIENTISTS and BIOLOGISTS that create them and develop the antidotes. They are not medical doctors in the sense of the word.

[Pyrpolizer]

I today spoke with my cousin who is a Doctor.
He said there's no hospital in the whole world that could ever diagnose a nerve agent poisoning case within 24 hours.
Even poisoning from known common causes like inhaling exhaust gases, carbon monoxide,LPG etc, drug over dose, food poisoning, poisoning aiming at suicide with chemicals etc is not an easy process and may take days to verify the exact cause while In most cases this is done after the victim dies during the necropsy...
He said in most cases they have to do guess work starting from the most likely causes.If the cause was lethal then there's only 1% chance the doctors would ever save the patients on the first place.

It seems the Doctors at the hospital where the Skipals were carried were some sort of rocket scientists compared to the Doctors we have in Cyprus though.

Isn't it surprising that not even ONE DOCTOR came out in the MSM, to describe the standard medical procedure they follow when two persons are brought unconscious to an emergency unit presumably for the same cause??

Don't even compare the Doctors in the UK with the Doctors in Cyprus.

Firstly, any Doctor worth their pinch of salt isn't going to return to Cyprus when they can go to the USA, Australia, or stay in the UK and earn many times more than what they would in Cyprus.

Cyprus gets the scraps. Occasionally, there will be the odd good Doctor that just want's the Cyprus Lifestyle but 9 out of 10 are going to go for the dollars.

Just compare the hospitals in Cyprus to the UK. The UK spends so much more on the health system.

It looks you have no idea how much money Doctors in the private sector make in Cyprus.
Considering not even one became a specialist in Cyprus it's obvious they all abandoned the countries they got their skills from.


Nevertheless do you have anything soldid from medical sources as to how it would ever be possible to identify the cause of such an extremely rare case of poisoning within 24 hours?

Really? There are hundreds of Cypriot Doctors still working in the UK, or USA and even Australia and they have become specialists on about 1 million per annum. That is what they earn.

I don't think so.
https://www.healthstaffrecruitment.com. ... in-the-uk/

Gone are the days Cypriots were easily accepted in Medical schools in the UK.
Today the majority are English School graduates that according to the school sum up to 73 students over a 5 year period.
https://www.englishschool.ac.cy/landing-media
Not much considering the fact we have more than 3000 active doctors in Cyprus.
As for the US it has always been almost impossible
http://www.paideia-news.com/index.php?id=109&hid=1096

Only a few abandon the countries they get their skills from but the majority don't because going back to Cyprus as a Doctor is a huge mistake.

It that another assumption? What's your evidence?

These countries retain them by throwing obscene amounts of money at them and promise work visas and Green Cards, and Cyprus gets the brain drain.

But that is beside the point. I am just amazed that a supposedly intelligent person in Cyprus who is a qualified Doctor is able to make such statements about a Nerve Agent without even knowing a thing about it.

I am amazed you are amazed. He is not a specialist on nerve agents just like 99.9999% of the Doctors worldwide aren't specialists either.
I guess you assume the remaining 0.00001% are all concentrated in Sailsbury's hospital.


The West has been studying these agents for about 75 years, since after WW2 starting off with the Humble Mustard Gas that was developed by NAZI Scientists and progressing from there to all kinds of substances in the Chemical and even Biological Warfare fields. Do you honestly believe we do not have the capability of making our own stockpiles?

We have developed and even issued our Soldiers with auto-injectors and pens of various chemicals which theoretically are suppose to be antidotes to various Nerve Agents such as Sarin and others and quite possibly this Russian Chemical as well these days which is known to us to the point where the USA can actually make it too.

The West has been looking at these capabilities for a very long time. Also looking at ways its soldiers and people are able to survive a Chemical and/or Biological War environment.

[Paphitis]

Yeh well I friggin don't care what you deem as top notch. One day some reality may dawn on you, because top notch for Cyprus and Top Notch for the UK, or Australia or USA are 2 different things.

The real doctors, let me tell you, you know the kind that actually work on breath-through research as opposed just give old farts like you their dentures or eye correction prescription, are in places earning huge bucks, not wasting away in Cyprus.

Sure, Cyprus has some good doctors, but are they at the same level as other countries? No they are not, because the other countries splash huge money.

But more to the point, what I was really getting at, as it appears it went over your head is the fact that how on earth would a Doctor in Cyprus actually know anything about Nerve Agents. The West issues antidotes and has been looking at these substances for decades. I think we have enough knowledge between us to be able to detect Nerve Agents and even quite possibly treat people that have been effected by Nerve Agents depending on the extent of the damage to their Central Nervous System.


Are you trying to tell us that every Doctor at a random hospital in the "West" is an expert on nerve agents and can make an accurate diagnosis?

And no, the US does not have stockpiles to wage a chemical or biological war. It has been destroying its stockpiles since 1990 as it is a signatory to The Chemical Weapons Convention. But of course it still has small amounts of these substances as does Australia and also the UK for research and to develop antidotes and other treatments for various materials.

No I am not saying that. But the West has some Doctors and Chemists which have developed an expertise in the field on behalf of the Government.