Pyrpolizer wrote:Paphitis wrote:
Stocks are influenced on a supply demand basis like everything else.
The Australian Super System is a self sustaining beast. In fact, the money pool keeps expanding and the money pool is only incrementally withdrawn or cashed out as people retire. So it will not burst any bubble.
There will be corrections as there always is, because economics are cyclic.
But as for fascism. That is what you have. You went tits up and there has never been an inquiry as to why. How on earth can you compare this to us and call us fascists. You got to be kidding.
The other thing. How on earth are you going to get a pension? Do you think Cyprus will be able to afford this massive welfare bill with a thinning out tax base?
Pyro, you have no clue about economics and stocks which is quite sad. And if you ask DT, it's going to cost you big time unless you are astute enough to self fund.
BTW, the 10% is paid by your employer over and above your salary. You have a choice to salary sacrifice another portion of your income to save tax, which is very worthwhile for a lot of tax payers. In other words, you can sacrifice x into your fund and not pay tax on that amount. It is an incentive to save more. The system in ingenious. It is recognized as the best system in the world.
There have been economists after economists and some of the smartest brains in the intellectual community who claim that the Australian Super System is a very robust retirement savings system for Australian workers and businesses which is great for Australia and its people.
Making sure your citizens enjoy a reasonable standard of living and that the welfare safety net is still sustainable in the future, isn't a fascist policy. It is a policy from a responsible Government that is planning for the future for the well being of its citizens and the economy. If they don't do it, they will go tits up like Cyprus did, and you and the young will pay for it again and even more thousands of young Cypriots will be headed our way.
You want to know why your Government doesn't do this kind of thing? Because they are only interested in their chair. they won't be the ones eating Cat Food either as they are smart enough to invest in managed funds anyway. they won't legislate for you to do it because they know it means a loss of votes. In other words they don't give a damn.
You have non fascists like katastrofias while we had forward thinkers like Bob Hawke, Keating and Howard.
Of course it's supply and demand, problem is with all those Super funds you are pushing the demand upwards over a fixed supply, and as a result you get bubbles like you already have in the housing market.
These super funds is the utter stupidity you can imagine, because they violates the principle that the markets can absorb investments upto a certain point. From there on they push the demand not only for real estate but for everything to invest on, to the limits creating bubbles.
What these super funds certainly achieved so far is to rip off peoples savings from the huge amount of charges they impose. They certainly created a new Elitist group among the Australians, who suck your incomes. And what a nice scheme that is huh? You just give them your money and you are forbidden to take it unless you reach pension age..
Nope! I prefer Cyprus' Provident funds. At least you can take a loan from that. And you can take all your money any time you abandon the company.
And don't try to sell me this fairy tail that it's the employer who pays. It's you who pays. Sure the government reduces your tax on the amount you invest however the rest comes out of your pocket. The same was happening here, so for people who were taxed at 30% the remaining 70% came out of their own pocket, and for those who were taxed at 0% the remaining 100% was coming out of their pockets. Any way you look at it is an indirect way of the Government financing private companies. Thank God once again we are in the EU and such things are not allowed anymore.
For such an economy like yours who so heavily depends on China, I'd actually lose my sleep just by the thought of the next financial crisis.
Be prepared Paphitis, analysts are waiting for it within the next 18-24 months.
It's not just supply and demand.
It's also the business performance, their profit, their sales and their PI Index. There are literally many factors that effect the share price. Also, whether it is going towards Dividend Payout or ex dividend.
These Managed Funds have not ripped off anyone. There literally has never been anyone that has lost money and the fund managers are actually mostly from Industry Super Funds. For example, my fund is run by The Australian Federation of Air Pilots (AFAP) or the Union. It is a non profit fund, but there are professional fund managers who work for us to make sure they look after the funds members financial interests and investments. AFAP have quite a bit under management from all its members into a single fund that has a lot of buying power (Billions under management)
It's basically the Pilot Union that does it for us, and the only fee we pay is $6 per month.
Not only that, but I get loss of licence insurance. If I lose my medical, I get a $500,000 pay out.
I also have life Insurance so if I die, partner is paid $500,000. If I am involved in a plane crash, I get free legal representation by AFAP lawyers and other protection and shielding from the media etc.
AFAP is the union that bought the country to a standstill. These are the fund operators too. They employ the financial fund managers and have a team of industrial lawyers on the books as well.
AFAP certainly isn't a rip off.
In fact, I told you before that the fund usually doubles everyone's money every 5 to 7 years. And it costs every member just $72 per year plus their membership to the Union which is a 1% levy on our wage. because we are high earners generally, AFAP is pretty wealthy and powerful.
Usually when you go for a job, the 10% levy is in addition to your Salary - Salary + Super. Your Salary does not include the 10% Super. When Keating introduced the system and rolled it out, he made employers fully liable to the Super expense. In other words, every business had to pay an extra 10% into all their employees Super Funds. There was an uproar but the uproar from business settled down as the dust settled.
Most people are in Industry Super Funds run by the Unions. You don't have to be a member through the Union non profit funds. The Banks also run funds but they charge more. Performance wise, they are all pretty much the same, the only point of difference is that the Banks and Commercial Funds will charge you about $1000 per year as opposed to just $72 per year that the Union charges.
No one is allowed to borrow against their Super or draw on the money until the age of 65. If you die, your Super is inherited by your partner or children.
And no, when you buy a share, you are not financing the company at all. The shares are usually not owned by the company but other share holders or institutional investors (big funds like Super and Banks).
It is a heavily regulated and controlled eco system. And no one is actually complaining because we all know how it works and we all see the money increasing and rolling over in time. You can also log in and see what your Super amount is worth on any day and look at graphs to see how well it is doing. Last financial year it was up by 14.3%
