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Migrants: Turkey threatens

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Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby Londonrake » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:43 pm

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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby Maximus » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:55 pm

:lol:

What could possibly go wrong............
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:00 am

Londonrake wrote:https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/14624/turkey-threatens-migrant-crisis


TLDR but am I allowed to even suggest that such things should best be read and considered within the context of who the 'Gatestone Institute' is, without being accused of saying it should just be ignored entirely because of who they are ?
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:32 am

So I have tracked down the actual source of these 'quotes'. They come from state (Turkish) news agency Anadolu Agency. That site has Turkish language and english language versions of the articles where these quotes come from.

Turkish https://www.aa.com.tr/tr/politika/icisl ... az/1537340

English https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/europe- ... ue/1537716

Using the English language one, as google translate on Turkish language is 'limited' the source report claims that Suleyman Soylu said ""If Turkey does not bear this issue [of irregular migrants] with determination, no government in Europe will be able to withstand this wave for more than six months,"

By the time this quote has reached the Gatestone Institue not only do we have small subtle differences between the source and their quote of it, that could be down to 'translation' we have a whole section added , the "We advise them not to try our patience." that just does not appear to exist at all in the original source . We also have the term 'floodgates' in their version that also appears to not exist in the source at all. So where did that come from I have to ask myself ?

Another site that has the 'Gatestone' version of what he said and that also explicitly cites Anadolu Agency as the source but links to the Turkish version not the english one and that also has the mysterious "We advise them not to try our patience." that appears to just not exist in the source at all. https://www.christopherfountain.com/blo ... ng-em-here


AA Source in english we have a 'title' to the article of

Europe leaves Turkey in lurch on migrant issue. No European government can withstand biggest migration wave if we open our gates, says Turkey's interior minister


and a direct quote of Suleyman Soylu of

"If Turkey does not bear this issue [of irregular migrants] with determination, no government in Europe will be able to withstand this wave for more than six months,"


Gatestone version has a 'title' to their article of

Turkey Threatens to Reignite European Migrant Crisis


and a direct quote of Suleyman Soylu of

We are facing the biggest wave of migration in history. If we open the floodgates, no European government will be able to survive for more than six months. We advise them not to try our patience."
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby Maximus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:58 am

The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Çavuşoğlu has threatened that Turkey will suspend the migrant deal reached with the EU in 2016, until the latter decides to grant Turkish passport holders with visa-free access to the Schengen countries.

Minister Çavuşoğlu said that the migration agreement would be suspended, only to come into effect again when a visa liberalization agreement is reached with the EU.

So basically, turkey got her blackmail money to fulfill her obligation to honor the readmission agreement she previously ratified as part of her eu accession negotiations. But is now trying to blackmail the eu again with another demand to Honor the previous blackmail when she should be honoring the readmission agreement anyway.

This time, turkey demands Access to the eu’s house whenever she wants.

Or will “open the flood gates” of Syrian refugees she has created instead.

Meanwhile on turkeys eastern border, there is a military build up, as she gets ready to invade and occupy Syria.

What could possibly go wrong by agreeing to turkeys demands?
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:55 am

Maximus wrote:The Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Çavuşoğlu has threatened ....


Much better source than the greatstone one imo though you do not make it clear what the source is and where the quoting of it stops and your opinion starts. This source also has nothing about "We advise them not to try our patience" in it that I could see or the use of the word 'floodgates', even though it the part that is your comments you do put quotes round "“open the flood gates”". So what is the source for this quote ? The greatstone article ? Also a nice sly implication, again that is in your comments as far as I can tell and not a quote from any where, that Turkey alone is responsible for there being any Syrian refugees in the first place.

Maximus wrote:What could possibly go wrong by agreeing to turkeys demands?


What could possibly go wrong if no way to break this deadlock between Turkey and EU is found ?
Last edited by erolz66 on Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby Maximus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:02 am

what is this deadlock?

Does turkey have a right to visa free access to the eu that a simple ‘no’, is unacceptable to her?
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:07 am

Maximus wrote:what is this deadlock?

Does turkey have a right to visa free access to the eu that a simple ‘no’, is unacceptable to her?


She has a right to such if she meets the criteria laid out in the agreement made with the EU. That was part and parcel of that deal. Now personally I do not think she has met those criteria and thus a 'no' to visa on part of the EU until she does is imo justified. However that does not mean that if she does decide to 'annul' her participation in the deal agreed and all parts of it , for any reason, justified or not, that this will not cause any problems for Europe.
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby Maximus » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:15 am

And that is the point.

Turkey has to fulfill certain benchmarks and close eu accession chapters to get visa liberalization. Which she has not done.

Turkey also has to recognize the republic of Cyprus as an independent state and end the occupation of the island.

This has been mentioned in countless eu progress reports, which turkey immediately rubbishes and slams and claims unfair treatment from the eu. Even though she doesn’t make any progress but instead has regressed in to something that the eu is not about.

What she is doing now is trying to cherry pick which benefits she can get from the eu and use blackmail as the means to get them. Such as this Visa liberalization.
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Re: Migrants: Turkey threatens

Postby erolz66 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:22 am

Maximus wrote:And that is the point.

Turkey has to fulfill certain benchmarks and close eu accession chapters to get visa liberalization. Which she has not done.

Turkey also has to recognize the republic of Cyprus as an independent state and end the occupation of the island.

This has been mentioned in countless eu progress reports, which turkey immediately rubbishes and slams and claims unfair treatment from the eu.

What she is doing now is trying to cherry pick which benefits she can get from the eu and use blackmail as the means to get them. Such as this Visa liberalization.


I do not disagree with what you have written here. I am just saying that there is a 'reality' to the fact that if she does renege on the deal that will cause problems for Europe and the EU. I do not say because of this the EU should 'give in' to her demands. I am saying that it's better for the EU to keep trying to calmly and patiently repeat that it will stick to its side of the deal once Turkey has met the criteria that were laid out and listed as part of that deal when it was signed whilst Turkey makes such threats but has not yet executed them.
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