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what next?

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Re: what next?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:54 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:Does the British Labour party really want to stay in the EU?
Does it consider the EU more close to the left than to sheer capitalism?
I was always puzzled about that, since most leftist parties across Europe don't support the EU.

Imo there's only one explanation:They don't support the EU, and been out of it with a "leftist deal" would be their No1 choice. But if this is not possible then better stay in rather than get out and be in the hands of the ruthless local capitalists. Meaning that at least within the EU they think that the working class has some protection.

Any comments?


They're certainly led by a man who is the longest serving "Brexiteer" in parliament (Sorry Lordo "Breshitter" :roll: ). In 37 years he voted against every piece of EU legislation. You can find his speeches on YouTube denouncing the federation as a banker's/corporate empire. He was of course a great admirer of Tony Benn and his views. Can you really not see the corporate/banking dominance within the EU?

I seems to me that this has been suppressed and Labour's entire focus on this matter has had nothing to do with the good of the country. They want the Conservatives to have to deal with the matter and any consequences. In that respect their overriding motivation has been on making Brexit as difficult as possible, with no regard for national benefit or even decent scruples. All they've wanted is to get into power. Preferably without having to deal with Brexit themselves.

If Labour want to protect the working classes are they incapable of doing it themselves at Westminster? Or, is that something better decided by un-elected Commissioners in Brussels? Ironically, much of Corbyn's (well, actually it's McDonnell's) plans would be unachievable within the constraints of EU membership. Big business and the bankers simply wouldn't allow it.
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Re: what next?

Postby Pyrpolizer » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:12 pm

Londonrake wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Does the British Labour party really want to stay in the EU?
Does it consider the EU more close to the left than to sheer capitalism?
I was always puzzled about that, since most leftist parties across Europe don't support the EU.

Imo there's only one explanation:They don't support the EU, and been out of it with a "leftist deal" would be their No1 choice. But if this is not possible then better stay in rather than get out and be in the hands of the ruthless local capitalists. Meaning that at least within the EU they think that the working class has some protection.

Any comments?


They're certainly led by a man who is the longest serving "Brexiteer" in parliament (Sorry Lordo "Breshitter" :roll: ). In 37 years he voted against every piece of EU legislation. You can find his speeches on YouTube denouncing the federation as a banker's/corporate empire. He was of course a great admirer of Tony Benn and his views. Can you really not see the corporate/banking dominance within the EU?

I seems to me that this has been suppressed and Labour's entire focus on this matter has had nothing to do with the good of the country. They want the Conservatives to have to deal with the matter and any consequences. In that respect their overriding motivation has been on making Brexit as difficult as possible, with no regard for national benefit or even decent scruples. All they've wanted is to get into power. Preferably without having to deal with Brexit themselves.

If Labour want to protect the working classes are they incapable of doing it themselves at Westminster? Or, is that something better decided by un-elected Commissioners in Brussels? Ironically, much of Corbyn's (well, actually it's McDonnell's) plans would be unachievable within the constraints of EU membership. Big business and the bankers simply wouldn't allow it.


Thanks, that's a decent explanation.
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Re: what next?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:17 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Does the British Labour party really want to stay in the EU?
Does it consider the EU more close to the left than to sheer capitalism?
I was always puzzled about that, since most leftist parties across Europe don't support the EU.

Imo there's only one explanation:They don't support the EU, and been out of it with a "leftist deal" would be their No1 choice. But if this is not possible then better stay in rather than get out and be in the hands of the ruthless local capitalists. Meaning that at least within the EU they think that the working class has some protection.

Any comments?


They're certainly led by a man who is the longest serving "Brexiteer" in parliament (Sorry Lordo "Breshitter" :roll: ). In 37 years he voted against every piece of EU legislation. You can find his speeches on YouTube denouncing the federation as a banker's/corporate empire. He was of course a great admirer of Tony Benn and his views. Can you really not see the corporate/banking dominance within the EU?

I seems to me that this has been suppressed and Labour's entire focus on this matter has had nothing to do with the good of the country. They want the Conservatives to have to deal with the matter and any consequences. In that respect their overriding motivation has been on making Brexit as difficult as possible, with no regard for national benefit or even decent scruples. All they've wanted is to get into power. Preferably without having to deal with Brexit themselves.

If Labour want to protect the working classes are they incapable of doing it themselves at Westminster? Or, is that something better decided by un-elected Commissioners in Brussels? Ironically, much of Corbyn's (well, actually it's McDonnell's) plans would be unachievable within the constraints of EU membership. Big business and the bankers simply wouldn't allow it.


Thanks, that's a decent explanation.


Blimey! I need a drink. Or perhaps to lie down for a while. :lol: :wink:
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Re: what next?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:20 pm

erolz66 wrote:
Lordo wrote:about the welsh secretary who caused a rape trial collapse


In the interests of accuracy and to my understanding he, the welsh secretary, did not cause a rape trial to collapse. One of his (former?) aids did this. The issue was the Welsh secretary claimed he had no knowledge of this and then is subsequently came out that it was not true. So he did not cause a rape trial to collapse. He did lie and get caught doing so over a rape trial collapsing hence the 'resignation'.


Yes, he allegedly lied and it seems has stood down as a result, whilst an investigation takes place. You don't tend to get a lot of that nowadays.

Check this one out (video). It doesn't matter whether or not you agree with his view, he's clearly a blatant liar and - has no intention of resigning:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47952275

Seems like it's going to be a long and dirty election campaign. :(
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Re: what next?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:05 pm

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Re: what next?

Postby Londonrake » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:31 pm

Anybody got a view on Vaz? Lied about offering to buy a couple of gay boy prostitutes class A drugs. Big wheel Asian MP in Leicester - pretty untouchable in our PC world. There seems to be some concern that he still intends to stand in the election. Makes all the character assassination stuff on Johnson/J R-M seem a bit tame.

Or, Chris Williamson. Momentum darling and devout worshipper of Corbyn. Thrown to the wolves in order to try to defuse the anti-semite label. Stopped from standing as MP for Derby North. Even to a fascist like me - that seems cold.
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Re: what next?

Postby Lordo » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:56 pm

Londonrake wrote:Anybody got a view on Vaz? Lied about offering to buy a couple of gay boy prostitutes class A drugs. Big wheel Asian MP in Leicester - pretty untouchable in our PC world. There seems to be some concern that he still intends to stand in the election. Makes all the character assassination stuff on Johnson/J R-M seem a bit tame.

Or, Chris Williamson. Momentum darling and devout worshipper of Corbyn. Thrown to the wolves in order to try to defuse the anti-semite label. Stopped from standing as MP for Derby North. Even to a fascist like me - that seems cold.

this is what i call brexshithead looking for a wall to hide behind. vaz was told he is banned from politics for 6 months so he will not be taking part in these elections. the chances are he will never return.

today tory party melted away.

we had minister who resigned for telling lies.
we had the leader of the housemoggie and his nanny who claimed the people should have ignored the firbrigate advice as he would have done. no sooner he appologised we had another mp supporing moggie.
we hadthe b'stard who claimed that corbyn was like stalin and the billioners were his gulaks.
poor things they just don't know how they are going to avoid tax when labour gets in
and of course the tory party chaiman refusing to be interviewed by sky news even though he was 15 feet away from the presenter.
sky is not exactly pro labour is it?

and you want to know about vaz and whether he has had a fart today or not.

https://www.facebook.com/labourparty/videos/814515655635537/UzpfSTcyMzkwNTMxODoxMDE2MjUzNTI4ODc4NTMxOQ/
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Re: what next?

Postby Paphitis » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:28 am

RichardB wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
RichardB wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
erolz66 wrote:Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.


:lol: :lol: The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case! :lol:

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. :lol: :lol: :lol: You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to. :wink:


Good Post LR.
@Erolz66 have you had the opportunity to read Varoufakis book "Adults I the room" it is an account of his dealings with the EU in his capacity as finance minister for the Tsipras government. The title of the book comes as a result of his meetings with the European Bank ministers... Lefarge et Al... He details events which led up to Tsipras accepting the terms of the 'bailout' which as Greek finance minister he did not agree with at all... Instead advising Tsipras to call the EUs bluff and refuse to pay even suggesting that Greece leave the EU. These actions led to his being sacked by his old friend Tsipras. He suggested also that the UK should leave the EU without any deal.

Obviously there is more to this read than my brief synopsis above. But it is a very interesting read from a man who is definitely a financial expert.

The book is available on amazon or if yourself or LR would like a copy I would be more than happy to send you mine to share. I


I have always had a thing for Varoufakis based on his stance when he was Finance Minister for Greece.

People like Erolz and Lordo look up to him but when it comes down to it, this guy was a GREXITEER pioneer, and also a lot more supportive of BREXIT than most realize.

His views on the EU are well known. he reveals a lot of the goings on during the crisis and said it many times that Greece should not negotiate or accept any of the EU demands and even proceed towards GREXIT. He said the same thing for the Brits. It's pointless negotiating with criminals.


Well said paphitis I dlidnt really want to get involved in any brexit debate but what you say is how I read it.
I respect varoufakis for his knowledge of the European banking system and all its flaws. At the end of the day his words may come back and haunt the EU

Regards to you and yours


Same to you Richard.

I agree Varoufakis was no friend of the EU. What the EU did to Greece was so evil.
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Re: what next?

Postby Paphitis » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:31 am

Londonrake wrote:
cyprusgrump wrote:I suppose it would be too much to ask for links to evidence that supports your foul-mouthed rants...? :roll:


I blame the parents. They should have sent him to school, like all the other kids.

Oh, wait a minute. That was a bit unfair.

Ahh blem de perints. Dey shudda sint em ta skool leek awl de udder keds.


Yes and if Corbynov has his way, all da keds wil spel leek us to.
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Re: what next?

Postby Paphitis » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:35 am

Londonrake wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Londonrake wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Does the British Labour party really want to stay in the EU?
Does it consider the EU more close to the left than to sheer capitalism?
I was always puzzled about that, since most leftist parties across Europe don't support the EU.

Imo there's only one explanation:They don't support the EU, and been out of it with a "leftist deal" would be their No1 choice. But if this is not possible then better stay in rather than get out and be in the hands of the ruthless local capitalists. Meaning that at least within the EU they think that the working class has some protection.

Any comments?


They're certainly led by a man who is the longest serving "Brexiteer" in parliament (Sorry Lordo "Breshitter" :roll: ). In 37 years he voted against every piece of EU legislation. You can find his speeches on YouTube denouncing the federation as a banker's/corporate empire. He was of course a great admirer of Tony Benn and his views. Can you really not see the corporate/banking dominance within the EU?

I seems to me that this has been suppressed and Labour's entire focus on this matter has had nothing to do with the good of the country. They want the Conservatives to have to deal with the matter and any consequences. In that respect their overriding motivation has been on making Brexit as difficult as possible, with no regard for national benefit or even decent scruples. All they've wanted is to get into power. Preferably without having to deal with Brexit themselves.

If Labour want to protect the working classes are they incapable of doing it themselves at Westminster? Or, is that something better decided by un-elected Commissioners in Brussels? Ironically, much of Corbyn's (well, actually it's McDonnell's) plans would be unachievable within the constraints of EU membership. Big business and the bankers simply wouldn't allow it.


Thanks, that's a decent explanation.


Blimey! I need a drink. Or perhaps to lie down for a while. :lol: :wink:


Single Malt clean please! :shock:
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